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 RedPrism
Gender: Male
 |  | A Few Questions (New at UE)
< on 10/15/2004 5:37 AM >
|  | | | I'm new at this so I thought I'd ask a few questions.
1. This is the gear loadout I'm thinking about, suggestions?
Woodland Camo Shirt/Trousers dyed black
Gloves
Binocs
Dive Light (already have it)
Chemical Sticks (entry/exit point markers)
Survival Knife
Small Logbook/Notebook
Wire Cutters (emergency use only)
Bolt Cutters (emergency use only)
Associated Maps
2. I'm thinking about using some kind of device noisemaking (probably fireworks) that will provide a diversion if a security guard gets to close to me, so I need some plans for a remote transmitter that's simple to make and carry. Ideas?
3. Where are the first places I should look for security cameras?
4. When I try to go into a building or tunnel is it good practice to go through the easiest entrance or look for an alternate that is less likely to have sensors? (Basically I'm trying to get an idea of how paraniod I should be.)
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MacGyver
 
Location: St Paul, Minnesota
Gender: Male
"Someone go find me a paperclip, a D-cell battery, and a cheese grater"
| | Re: A Few Questions (New at UE)
<Reply # 1 on 10/15/2004 5:52 AM >
|  | | | I don't think you have the right idea of what urban exploration is about. This isn't a ninja video game, but more of a looking around old buildings and the city you live in with a different eye. Some explorers use camo and get a thrill out of sneaking around places with live security, but that kind of stuff is just one facet of this hobby, and definitely not the kind of thing you should be planning on doing if you have to ask others for advice about it.
Posted by RedPrism
(Basically I'm trying to get an idea of how paraniod I should be.) |
You'd better be pretty damn paranoid if you plan on sneaking around some place in black camo with bolt cutters and remotely detonatable explosives...
Like a fiend with his dope / a drunkard his wine / a man will have lust for the lure of the mine
"If you are not part of the solution, you are not dissolved in the solvent." |
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ngamer007
  
Location: Upstate NY
Gender: Male
Time for some thrilling heroics.
| | Re: A Few Questions (New at UE)
<Reply # 2 on 10/15/2004 5:54 AM >
| | | | Fireworks? Bad idea. If you're caught with fireworks, you're screwed.
You might want to add some very useful things like digital camera, two way radio, cellphone, backpack, and exploring buddies to that list.
When you go into drains, there are sensors and proximity mines everywhere. You need to have a IR detector to see the sensors, or everything will explode and the cops will come and shoot at you. You may or may not have to take out the armed guards that patrol drain entrances. If you have remote detonated explosions you can create a diversion and the robot patrol helicopters will forget all about you. Then you'll have to go through a chase scene while on fire through a hospital zone, as you're being chased by ninjas... that are also on fire.
[last edit 10/15/2004 5:58 AM by ngamer007 - edited 2 times]
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Shard
Location: WA
Gender: Male
Baron Deathchemical
| | Re: A Few Questions (New at UE)
<Reply # 3 on 10/15/2004 6:00 AM >
| | | | Also, if you’re going to be in an active site, with “ordinary” people, leave the survival knife at home.
textfiles.com |
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MovingUnit
Location: Massachusetts
Gender: Male
| |  | Re: A Few Questions (New at UE)
<Reply # 4 on 10/15/2004 6:09 AM >
| | | | Damn those pesky flaming ninjas. They're such a bitch to get away from. Do a couple of Matrix-style moves on them and you should be just fine.
Oh yeah, and back to reality, fireworks = STUPID idea...survival knife...no no no. And bolt/wire cutters? You're screwed if you ever get caught with them.
I explore alone. Never been caught or even been close to it in my three years doing this. All I usually bring along is a backpack, a cell, a maglite, water, camera, and a pack of cigarettes.
Just try to look at things sensibly; you're exploring, not spending time at a survival camp.
http://www.flickr....os/unit_that_moves |
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RedPrism
Gender: Male
| | Re: A Few Questions (New at UE)
<Reply # 5 on 10/15/2004 6:10 AM >
| | | | The thing is, I don't plan on being caught. If you want to get caught that's fine. Don't make it my problem. And not bringing a cutting tool (knife) on something like that is not only unsafe, it's stupid. I asked these questions for information, if you don't want to answer them, go somewhere else.
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Skaught
Location: Calgary
Gender: Male
| | | Re: A Few Questions (New at UE)
<Reply # 6 on 10/15/2004 6:10 AM >
| | | | 99% of my ue I do with a keychain LED flashlight and maybe a camera.
The best place to hide is in plain sight.
Sounds like you have been watching to many movies.
It just dawned on me that newcomers to the UE community see UE totally differently than I did back in the 90's when I first found info online about steam tunneling.
I think I can kinda see why they see things so totally skewed from the reality.
Woodland Camo Shirt/Trousers dyed black (only those who are guilty of something have a need to hide)
Gloves (not always a bad idea but I try to get away without them)
Binocs (going birdwatching?)
Dive Light (already have it) (going diving?)
Chemical Sticks (entry/exit point markers) (Vandalism and if you get lost that easy, pick a new hobby)
Survival Knife (Surviving what? You are most likely to fall on it)
Small Logbook/Notebook (maybe not a bad idea but I never have time to write while I am exploring)
Wire Cutters (emergency use only) (I have never had need to cut wire)
Bolt Cutters (emergency use only) (I would never cut a lock or the like)
Associated Maps (maps are always handy, but sometimes exploring without them is fun too)
2. I'm thinking about using some kind of device noisemaking (probably fireworks) that will provide a diversion if a security guard gets to close to me, so I need some plans for a remote transmitter that's simple to make and carry. Ideas? (security guards are not like badgers, they are not distracted that way)
3. Where are the first places I should look for security cameras? (Mainly those boxes with lenses or the domes, but looking at them is usually a tip off that you should not be there. I typically ignore them)
4. When I try to go into a building or tunnel is it good practice to go through the easiest entrance or look for an alternate that is less likely to have sensors? (Basically I'm trying to get an idea of how paraniod I should be.)
(I have never really had to deal with sensors with a few exceptions, it is a experience/judgement call thing)
----
"The thing is, I don't plan on being caught. If you want to get caught that's fine. Don't make it my problem. And not bringing a cutting tool (knife) on something like that is not only unsafe, it's stupid. I asked these questions for information, if you don't want to answer them, go somewhere else."
Why is not having a cutting tool unsafe or stupid? I cannot think of any use for one nor in my years of exploring have I ever said to myself "I wish I had a knife" I have used multitools and the like on occaision for special purposes.
You better plan on being caught, ask all the serious explorers out there who have been doing this for a period of time and make it part of their lifestyle. If you do not plan to get caught, which you will if you do this for any period of time, you will be a blithering idiot and get in a heap of trouble. You can watch action movies but they will never prepare you for a gun in your face or a police dog on your arm or being in the back of a police car.
[last edit 10/15/2004 6:21 AM by Skaught - edited 2 times]
If you ever come to Calgary then email [email protected] and you'll be made welcome, taken to locations and given free accommodation. We'll help save you the $$$ you spend on the flight over here :) |
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RedPrism
Gender: Male
| | Re: A Few Questions (New at UE)
<Reply # 7 on 10/15/2004 6:20 AM >
| | | | Posted by Rev. Skaught
99% of my ue I do with a keychain LED flashlight and maybe a camera.
The best place to hide is in plain sight.
Sounds like you have been watching to many movies.
It just dawned on me that newcomers to the UE community see UE totally differently than I did back in the 90's when I first found info online about steam tunneling.
I think I can kinda see why they see things so totally skewed from the reality.
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Then why all the elaborate safety warnings I see on all of these sites? There must be dozens of hazarous chemicals in abandoned missle silos and chemical refinaries, you walked through those without so much as a dust mask? A spill might have been the reason they were abandoned in the first place.
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ngamer007
Location: Upstate NY
Gender: Male
Time for some thrilling heroics.
| | Re: A Few Questions (New at UE)
<Reply # 8 on 10/15/2004 6:20 AM >
| | | | Don't bring a huge survival knife, just bring a pocket knife with serrated edge, make sure you get one made in the US. The ones made in Asia wear down very easy and you can't sharpen them without chipping the blade.
Fireworks, bad idea. Unless they are legal in your state, but chances are, they aren't.
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Skaught
Location: Calgary
Gender: Male
| | | Re: A Few Questions (New at UE)
<Reply # 9 on 10/15/2004 6:24 AM >
| | | | Posted by RedPrism
Then why all the elaborate safety warnings I see on all of these sites? There must be dozens of hazarous chemicals in abandoned missle silos and chemical refinaries, you walked through those without so much as a dust mask? A spill might have been the reason they were abandoned in the first place.
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Why the warnings? Because we want to avoid liabilty. I can speak from experience, and I have some. There will always be the idiot who eats PCBs or licks toxic mould. I stongly suggest that you do wear a mask/respirator in the right situations. I have only needed a mask in a handfull of sites.
Warnings are need because kids and those with limited judgement may act foolishly and then try to blame others.
If you ever come to Calgary then email [email protected] and you'll be made welcome, taken to locations and given free accommodation. We'll help save you the $$$ you spend on the flight over here :) |
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Shard
Location: WA
Gender: Male
Baron Deathchemical
| | Re: A Few Questions (New at UE)
<Reply # 10 on 10/15/2004 6:25 AM >
| | | | Posted by RedPrism
And not bringing a cutting tool (knife) on something like that is not only unsafe, it's stupid. I asked these questions for information, if you don't want to answer them, go somewhere else.
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I didn't say not to bring a cutting tool, I said not to bring a survival knife to active sites. Take a Leatherman multi-tool. They’re small, they’ve got nice blades which are under three inches and hold a razor edge, plus they’ve got handy things like screwdrivers and inconspicious wire cutters. There really is something to be said for hiding in plain sight, and looking like a Rambo wannabe, or worse still a terrorist out to behead people, just doesn’t pass the mark.
textfiles.com |
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Skaught
Location: Calgary
Gender: Male
| | | Re: A Few Questions (New at UE)
<Reply # 11 on 10/15/2004 6:31 AM >
| | | | I still do not know the need for a cutting tool.
I was on an explore once where we had a run in with the police. A fellow explorer accidentally had a utility knife in his pocket. The cops found it and he instantly found his face in the pavement, his elbows bent the wrong way and a cop on his back.
Mind you this was 3 years ago so cops have probaly mellowed about having knives since then . . .
One measure of an explorer is not whether they get caught but how they deal with it. To be a really good explorer you need to take measured risks over a long period of time. If you play the odds, you will eventually get caught. If you are not getting caught you either are not exploring much or you are not taking any risks.
Now there are examples of foolishness and people getting busted for playing witht he wal-mart intercom. But then that is not UE.
[last edit 10/15/2004 6:34 AM by Skaught - edited 1 times]
If you ever come to Calgary then email [email protected] and you'll be made welcome, taken to locations and given free accommodation. We'll help save you the $$$ you spend on the flight over here :) |
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ngamer007
Location: Upstate NY
Gender: Male
Time for some thrilling heroics.
| | Re: A Few Questions (New at UE)
<Reply # 12 on 10/15/2004 6:33 AM >
| | | | By utility knife do you mean those plastic things with the sliding switch? When you slide the switch up the blade comes out?
If so, wow. That's a pretty big reaction for such a common tool.
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Shard
Location: WA
Gender: Male
Baron Deathchemical
| | Re: A Few Questions (New at UE)
<Reply # 13 on 10/15/2004 6:34 AM >
| | | | Also mind that I’m speaking from the position of one living in a relatively rural and hick part of the US. Cops don’t give a shit about anything under three inches around here, unless it’s sticking out of a corpse.
textfiles.com |
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Skaught
Location: Calgary
Gender: Male
| | | Re: A Few Questions (New at UE)
<Reply # 14 on 10/15/2004 6:39 AM >
| | | | That is the one.
And that was a canadian cop too.
Generally our cops are really cool. But when it comes to weapons, just don't fuck around. That is why we never carry anything that can be considered a weapon.
And despite running into homeless and crackwhores and the like we have never had need for a weapon. And in reality they are more likely to take the weapon from you and turn it on you. More people die from thier own guns than from the guns of criminals. (I looked for the source on that one but cannot remember the url)
"Guns escalate conflicts and increase the chances that you will be seriously harmed. If you carry a gun, you're twice as likely to become the victim of gun violence. You also run the risk that the gun may be turned on you or that an innocent person will be hurt. And, you may do something in a moment of fear or anger that you will regret for the rest of your life."
The same holds true for weapons in general.
Of course I think the vast majority of exploers would ageree that guns have no place anything to do with exploring.
Even things like our aircraft cable manhole poppers we typically do not carry on our person as allthough they do not look like any sort of weapon specifically, someone might imagine they could be used for strangling someone or something.
We do all our exploring with the assumption we will be caught and always begin all missions with a discussion about how to talk to the police. Through experience we have found that brutal honesty works the best. Cops never expect it and they have a tendancy to assume you a thief or something if you do not answer thier questions. We also volunteer to be searched. Agian it avoids arrest and a night in lookup.
Ya in the end we would be found innocent of anything serious but do you have any idea what a pain in the ass any legal proceedings are?
I ahve only run into police about 4 times in the last 4 years and outright caught once. Usually I end up meeting the police on the way out of a site or while scouting. In either case I have a firendly chat and head on my way.
[last edit 10/15/2004 6:45 AM by Skaught - edited 2 times]
If you ever come to Calgary then email [email protected] and you'll be made welcome, taken to locations and given free accommodation. We'll help save you the $$$ you spend on the flight over here :) |
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Shard
Location: WA
Gender: Male
Baron Deathchemical
| | Re: A Few Questions (New at UE)
<Reply # 15 on 10/15/2004 6:51 AM >
| | | | So in the end it all comes down to environment—where you’re exploring. If you usually carry a multi-tool or pocketknife when you’re walking downtown, go ahead and take in when you UE. Same goes for Rambo knives, if you normally carry one in public (note that I don’t know of anyplace where this is acceptable  ) then more power to ya. If you live in a Nazi police state and aren’t aloud to carry anything remotely dangerous, then it sucks to be you; better leave it at home.
textfiles.com |
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Skaught
Location: Calgary
Gender: Male
| | | Re: A Few Questions (New at UE)
<Reply # 16 on 10/15/2004 7:07 AM >
| | | | Allthough after the cops realized it was just there as an accident they were apologetic.
Overall I find cops WAY cooler than seccers as people.
If you ever come to Calgary then email [email protected] and you'll be made welcome, taken to locations and given free accommodation. We'll help save you the $$$ you spend on the flight over here :) |
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ngamer007
Location: Upstate NY
Gender: Male
Time for some thrilling heroics.
| | Re: A Few Questions (New at UE)
<Reply # 17 on 10/15/2004 7:08 AM >
| | | | That's probably because seecers = minimum wage with a gun and no more rights than you and me.
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Blargo
 
Location: Guelph, ON
Gender: Male
| |  | Re: A Few Questions (New at UE)
<Reply # 18 on 10/15/2004 7:09 AM >
| | | | Woodland Camo Shirt/Trousers dyed black - maybe just buy a black pair of cargo pants and a non-black long sleeve shirt of some sort. Wearing all black may arouse a little more suspicion that you want
Gloves - I use them, I'd rather have them than not. especially at abandoned sites where there may be rust/chemicals/sharp objects... a pair of cheap of work gloves should do the trick. Not always useful though, so plan ahead.
Binocs - Probably not in most cases, their weight and size will outweigh (literally) their usefulness. Maybe a cheap pair of little ones if you feel you need them, but once again they could arouse suspicion.
Dive Light (already have it) - if you already have it, it may be appropriate. Depending on it's size though, you may want to invest in something a little smaller
Chemical Sticks (entry/exit point markers) - I'd say scrap these. Trail marker tape, electrical tape or a small piece of reflective tape (if you're in low light or no light situations) would be more appropriate, less likely to be removed if someone comes across it, cheaper and will arouse less suspicion if it's discovered. Try placing it on the ceiling as opposed to walls, people are much less likely to look up and notice something.
Survival Knife - Really a multitool is best, if anything at all is needed. Maybe if you're in a place where you might get attacked by a rabid animal or if you intend to piss off a bear it might come in handy, but judging by your talk to sensors and cameras I don't think this applies.
Small Logbook/Notebook - Why not? I've used one a couple times, mainly just to draw diagrams of interesting things I've found or to make notes on any number of other things (including alternate ways out if need be). Keep in mind, however, that if you're caught a note book full of information about the site probably isn't something you'd want to be found by the cops... Makes you look like a little more than someone exploring...
Wire Cutters (emergency use only) - I'd definately advise against it. If you need anything like that (I don't really see why) bring a multi-tool with wire cutters.
Bolt Cutters (emergency use only) - Definately not. Once again this might create a major problem if you're caught.
Basically try to end up looking as normal and inconspicuous as possible
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Skaught
Location: Calgary
Gender: Male
| | | Re: A Few Questions (New at UE)
<Reply # 19 on 10/15/2004 7:17 AM >
| | | | The key here is to not look serious about this. Anything that shows that your planned this out ahead of time is going to make the authorities look at you much more harshly.
I have used "keys" on missions, but you would have never found them on my person. Allthough "keys" are needed extraordinaily rarely and are usally not worth the risk.
If you ever come to Calgary then email [email protected] and you'll be made welcome, taken to locations and given free accommodation. We'll help save you the $$$ you spend on the flight over here :) |
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