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I don't understand how this is hard for people to understand. The people who have trouble with these things clearly don't understand what the Bible is or how it came to be.
That passage clearly means that cats are better than dogs.
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mutantMandias is something more than human, more than a computer. mutantMandias is a murderously intelligent, sensually self-programmed, non-being | |
sorry if someone mentioned this already, God wrote the bible, but it had to be filtered thru men who actually physically wrote it, so they might have changed God's words a little bit in their favor, so thats why it says women should submit to men. tell your husband that, Irishlady!
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Posted by monster
sorry if someone mentioned this already, God wrote the bible, but it had to be filtered thru men who actually physically wrote it, so they might have changed God's words a little bit in their favor, so thats why it says women should submit to men. tell your husband that, Irishlady!
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Did you learn that "god wrote the Bible" line? In kindergarten Sunday school?
I'd love for you to show me where in the Bible it says that God wrote the Bible.
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mutantMandias is something more than human, more than a computer. mutantMandias is a murderously intelligent, sensually self-programmed, non-being | |
Posted by DevilC
His word - not God's.
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What I was taught when I asked about that is that the Bible is 'God's inspired word'
Which means that though Paul wrote it, we confess that Paul wrote it under God's direction.
God had a reason for saying it. I don't know what it is, I don't like it. But I believe it and follow it.
It's a tragedy.
It's exactly like a greek tragedy.
We should only be Greeks. | |
Posted by journeylady
Which means that though Paul wrote it, we confess that Paul wrote it under God's direction.
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unfortunately, a good bit of the good book has been subject to creative editing over the centuries. The question comes up as to which parts were "divinely inspired", which were just written by people who thought thay were divinely inspired, and which were plugged in on someones order to promote their own agenda. I have always had questions about where that "render unto cesar..." part came from. So what if the "no girls allowed" rule came in under someone elses watch? Or if it was just plugged in by someone that worked under the rather narrow-minded views of the day about a "womans place"?
A quick look at edits, errors, and keeping people stupid (this one was a kings law, not religious)...http://www.randi.o...lopedia/Bible.html
For once, I'm not trying to be a anti-religion ass, just pointing out that even if the book was the indirect work of a higher power, that doesn't prevent people from spending the last 2000 years rewriting it for their own benefit.
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Posted by underdark
unfortunately, a good bit of the good book has been subject to creative editing over the centuries. The question comes up as to which parts were "divinely inspired", which were just written by people who thought thay were divinely inspired, and which were plugged in on someones order to promote their own agenda. I have always had questions about where that "render unto cesar..." part came from. So what if the "no girls allowed" rule came in under someone elses watch? Or if it was just plugged in by someone that worked under the rather narrow-minded views of the day about a "womans place"?
A quick look at edits, errors, and keeping people stupid (this one was a kings law, not religious)...http://www.randi.o...lopedia/Bible.html
For once, I'm not trying to be a anti-religion ass, just pointing out that even if the book was the indirect work of a higher power, that doesn't prevent people from spending the last 2000 years rewriting it for their own benefit.
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I see what you're saying, the problem is that we don't know what is or isn't changed.
We don't know what God did have in mind and what he didn't.
So who are we to decide what can and can't be disregarded? When you start down that path you get the people saying 'well I believe in the Bible and I'm a Christian. Oh but I don't believe in the virgin birth.' which totally screws ME up because that would mean Jesus wasn't God was he?
So where do you draw the line on what you do and don't believe in the Bible?
It's a tragedy.
It's exactly like a greek tragedy.
We should only be Greeks. | |
Posted by journeylady
Oh but I don't believe in the virgin birth.' which totally screws ME up because that would mean Jesus wasn't God was he?
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But even THAT is in question. The original Hebrew word used, "almah," commonly meant "young woman." They specifically didn't use "bethulah," which means "sexually pure." Some people translated it one way, and others translated in another way. Eventually, the "virgin" translation just made for a better story, so it became unfashionable to translate it as "young woman."
But, yeah, you're assuming a whole lot, because even if you accept that God moved Paul and other folks to write all of His stuff for Him, you've still got to account for the people who got together a few hundred years later and picked which of the thousands of texts and hundreds of different versions of the same stories were actually the right ones.
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mutantMandias is something more than human, more than a computer. mutantMandias is a murderously intelligent, sensually self-programmed, non-being | |
I guess one would have to find THE bible. Or at least the closest thing available today. Have it translated, then get out the highlighter and start marking.
Like with this one...
http://www.bl.uk/n...lease20050311.html
Oh, and this is likely not helpful, but I don't belive in organized religion. Anyones organized religion. People screw it up waayyy too efficiently. I figure there is something out there, but I don't even pretend to know what it is. Guess I'll find out one day, but till then I'll just maintain.
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Posted by underdark
I guess one would have to find THE bible. Or at least the closest thing available today. Have it translated, then get out the highlighter and start marking.
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But the Bible wasn't written. It is purely a product of editors. It was compiled by 300 dudes getting together and figuring out, amongst themselves, what is right and wrong.
Like, "Is Jesus the son of God?" Those guys are the ones who decided, "Yuppers!"
"Is there some kind of weird Trinity thing, which isn't really supported by any text?" "Sure," say these guys, "why not?"
So round about 312 AD. these guys decide which texts they like, and which they don't. The ones they liked became The Bible. The ones they didn't became the really big fire out back.
And tell me, do you really think that these 300 guys, gathered round that great big pile of burning books, did not get drunk and chase some young girls or boys around the fire with their frocks pulled over their heads?
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mutantMandias is something more than human, more than a computer. mutantMandias is a murderously intelligent, sensually self-programmed, non-being | |
Posted by MutantMandias
But, yeah, you're assuming a whole lot, because even if you accept that God moved Paul and other folks to write all of His stuff for Him, you've still got to account for the people who got together a few hundred years later and picked which of the thousands of texts and hundreds of different versions of the same stories were actually the right ones.
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I'm not assuming. I have faith. I have faith that God not only inspired Paul and the rest to write accurately his words, but then later inspired those who bound it into one book to choose the right ones. I have faith that the bulk of the Bible is still accurate today and that the scholars that work to keep it true to its origins were inspired by God as well.
I mean come on, if I believe that there was a flood that covered all the world, that Jesus is God and raised back to life after death, than it's not too much of a stretch to believe that God is able to keep his book true to his word. Is it?
If you're going to try and disprove my faith why not go for the really big things?
I'll tell you now you're just wasting your time ;]
My faith is strong and secure.
Not trying to be rude here, just truthful.
It's a tragedy.
It's exactly like a greek tragedy.
We should only be Greeks. | |
Posted by journeylady
If you're going to try and disprove my faith why not go for the really big things?
I'll tell you now you're just wasting your time ;]
My faith is strong and secure.
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I have no interest in disproving your faith. Of course, I know it can't be done, and not just because your faith is strong, but because there is no way to either prove or disprove matters of faith. Logic and Faith are mutually exclusive.
The only way I could destroy your Faith would be to prove God's existence. Then you would have no need for Faith.
But, nonetheless, I think people use Faith as an excuse to not learn or think about things. People tend to begin accepting every single thing about life based on Faith, and not questioning anything. Even Faith should be questioned. How do you know that the minister of your church is not the AntiChrist? He sure seems nice and convincing, but wouldn't Satan?
Anyway. I'm just trying to provide information about things that it seems like you have accepted without questioning. Your Faith should survive the questioning if it is worth anything at all. But not examining and questioning one's Faith is not exactly a sign of strong Faith.
Of course, maybe I'm Satan. That would explain a whole lot.
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mutantMandias is something more than human, more than a computer. mutantMandias is a murderously intelligent, sensually self-programmed, non-being | |
Posted by MutantMandias
But the Bible wasn't written. It is purely a product of editors. It was compiled by 300 dudes getting together and figuring out, amongst themselves, what is right and wrong.
Like, "Is Jesus the son of God?" Those guys are the ones who decided, "Yuppers!"
"Is there some kind of weird Trinity thing, which isn't really supported by any text?" "Sure," say these guys, "why not?"
So round about 312 AD. these guys decide which texts they like, and which they don't. The ones they liked became The Bible. The ones they didn't became the really big fire out back.
And tell me, do you really think that these 300 guys, gathered round that great big pile of burning books, did not get drunk and chase some young girls or boys around the fire with their frocks pulled over their heads?
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But getting closer to the original edition get you closer to the original intent. And I think the scene was more like this..
So about 312 AD some guy gets all the paper he can on this "Jesus" fella (the old testament stories were already around in jewish books) and picks through it till he gets the narrative he believes is the best, most accurate picture of the life of the person that he (the editor) honestly believes is the son of god.
About 45seconds after it gets premiered, someone decides they don't like part "A" so they start making their own copy, with the first edit already in place. This will go on till the invention of movable type.
With the invention of movable type, now anyone that doesn't like part "J" (all previous objectionable parts have been removed prior to this and aren't even known anymore) can now mass produce their own better bible AND pass it out to everyone else so they can know gog in the correct way. It's better that way, the new editor thinks. And who's gonna argue with King James?
The edits are still around, you just have to look for them. The link I posted in my previous post is an example of people still looking for the history. Never a bad plan to have accurate history of a book that has influenced as many people as this one has.
Oh, and I dout the first editor was doing any frock-sheding, youth chasing, drunken fire dance. It seems that with religion the first ones are the believers. The charlatans come later. Not much later sometimes, but they let the believers do all the hard work first. Kinda like the difference between statesmen and politicians.
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Posted by journeylady
I'm not assuming. I have faith. I have faith that God not only inspired Paul and the rest to write accurately his words, but then later inspired those who bound it into one book to choose the right ones. I have faith that the bulk of the Bible is still accurate today and that the scholars that work to keep it true to its origins were inspired by God as well.
I mean come on, if I believe that there was a flood that covered all the world, that Jesus is God and raised back to life after death, than it's not too much of a stretch to believe that God is able to keep his book true to his word. Is it?
If you're going to try and disprove my faith why not go for the really big things?
I'll tell you now you're just wasting your time ;]
My faith is strong and secure.
Not trying to be rude here, just truthful.
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All very valid points, but human nature is a bitch. There have been many time when that whole "will of man" thing has given many religion a black eye. There have been a whole lot of free willed people over the years that have had much to gain from rewriting the bible for personal gain. I, not into the organised religion thing as I am, will still be very interested in seeing the translation of the oldest bible just to see how it stacks up against the modern versions. The difference could shed light on some real history from the period when the revisions were made if we could figure out who did them and why.
[last edit 4/24/2007 4:57 PM by underdark - edited 1 times]
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Sure, there were previous compilations of letters, etc, but the Council of Nicaea was essentially called as a political meeting to avoid conflicts that were building and escalating all over the place. So the hundreds of bishops that came from all across the known world were diplomats, plied with goods and luxuries, and asked to create a single, dogmatic version of beliefs that could be used to control the masses and resolve dissent with the unified forceful authority of Constantine.
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mutantMandias is something more than human, more than a computer. mutantMandias is a murderously intelligent, sensually self-programmed, non-being | |
Deconstruct the finer elements of the life of Moses, from his discovery in a basket on the Nile, to that of the life of Jesus.
Similar, no? Odd coincidence, no?
"The truth is knowable. But probably not, ever, incontrovertible."
--Don DeLillo
PICS | |
Well, they certainly both enjoyed fucking with peoples perceptions when it comes to water.
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mutantMandias is something more than human, more than a computer. mutantMandias is a murderously intelligent, sensually self-programmed, non-being | |
All of this is irrelevant.... whether the bible is literal or not, whether it is gods word or not. It's all irrelevant. Any church claiming to follow the bible should 100% absolutely not allow a woman to lead the church. Not because women are evil or stupid or whatever, but because if they do they are hypocrites. If a church goes by the word of the bible, then they are not allowed to pick and choose what parts they want. Simple as that. Cut through the bullshit.
-wabs | |
But, no, that's not true.
I guess what I'm saying is, you are putting Paul before God. Sinner.
[last edit 6/15/2007 2:32 PM by MutantMandias - edited 1 times]
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mutantMandias is something more than human, more than a computer. mutantMandias is a murderously intelligent, sensually self-programmed, non-being | |
Posted by Wabbit
If a church goes by the word of the bible, then they are not allowed to pick and choose what parts they want. Simple as that. Cut through the bullshit.
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Find one that does.And I mean the WHOLE bible. Even the old, obsolete-as-hell stuff. I wanna see um.
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Posted by underdark
Find one that does.And I mean the WHOLE bible. Even the old, obsolete-as-hell stuff. I wanna see um.
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My point exactly
-wabs |
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