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So my buddy has a 90 Lumina with the 3.1 v6, it was running rough and idling rough, and he asked me to help since he doesn't know how to work on cars. I started by replacing the plugs and wires. Fun job. Helped a bit, but not much. Step 2 was removing and thoroughly cleaning the I.A.C. valve. Helped a bit more. Then I replaced the oxygen sensor on the downpipe. He said that was the best the car's ever ran, until it warmed up, then it ran rough again and bogged down under acceleration. It idled fine in park, but once you drop the shifter into D (even with your foot still on the brake) it bogs down and runs rough. He's been researching his issues and said the only thing he can find that's related to when the car warms up is the IAC valve, so he bought a new one and I replaced that tonight. Didn't help at all. More to the point, now it's not starting if you try to start it when it's still warmed up. rather than keep throwing $30 sensors at it, I figured I'd pick your brains first.
His next move as he told me is to clean or replace the EGR valve. Thoughts?
Won't you help me, Mr. Jesus, Won't you tell me, if you can
When you see this world we live in, Do you still believe in man? | |
one thing with the 2.8L and 3.1L Gen II engines was that the coil packs would crack around the bolt holes that held them to the ignition module. When the packs warm up, they begin to miss.
1990 is a funny year... early 90's had an "IDLE LEARN" procedure that had to be done when the battery was disconnected. This was a carry-over from the 2.8L.
Also, check the voltage on the Intake Air Temp sensor... it has a big influence.
[last edit 5/10/2013 3:30 AM by Samurai - edited 1 times]
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The egr will also make it stall, if its stuck open. If its easy to get too pull it out and clean it up. wouldn't hurt anything. but usually even in park it will surge. My first guess would have been the IAC as well so you were on the right track. Another thing, I would suggest replacing the fuel filter if you haven't already, it requires a bit more fuel under load (in drive) and if theres a demand and no fuel it could make it not want to stay running as well (also a maintenance item). Sam, ive also seen problems with there ignition modules under the coil packs, also check for corrosion between the coil packs where they go to the module, also corrosion build up on the poles of the coil where the plug wires attach too.
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Posted by sleeperspirit
Sam, ive also seen problems with there ignition modules under the coil packs, also check for corrosion between the coil packs where they go to the module, also corrosion build up on the poles of the coil where the plug wires attach too.
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usually that corrosion on the ignition modules occurs if the car has sat for a period of time, in my experience, but I wouldn't rule it out.
it's funny this topic has come up because my friend AC has a 90 Z24 and it's acting the same way.
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I believe this car sat on the dealer's lot for 6 or 8 months before he bought it, would that be enough time?
Thanks for the suggestions, guys. I'll get back to you.
Won't you help me, Mr. Jesus, Won't you tell me, if you can
When you see this world we live in, Do you still believe in man? | |
Posted by CDSbigsby
I believe this car sat on the dealer's lot for 6 or 8 months before he bought it, would that be enough time?
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absolutely.
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My Grand Am stalls out when the engine gets hot during the winter. Summer it runs fine but as soon as the temperature drops into the minus and the engine temperature reaches the mid-way mark on the gauge, it sputters and dies.
You can restart it and it will run but you have to hold the gas pedal down even at stop lights as it will repeat. Works fine when the engine isn't warm.
Replaced the mass air sensor and the coolant temp sensor. I also removed the intake assembly to clean things out and found a whole bunch of grey 'gunk' had built up in the rubber hoses. This sludge builds up in the engine apparently - although it is unrelated to my stall issue.
[last edit 5/11/2013 12:24 AM by Intrinsic - edited 1 times]
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Posted by Intrinsic
My Grand Am stalls out when the engine gets hot during the winter. Summer it runs fine but as soon as the temperature drops into the minus and the engine temperature reaches the mid-way mark on the gauge, it sputters and dies.
You can restart it and it will run but you have to hold the gas pedal down even at stop lights as it will repeat. Works fine when the engine isn't warm.
Replaced the mass air sensor and the coolant temp sensor. I also removed the intake assembly to clean things out and found a whole bunch of grey 'gunk' had built up in the rubber hoses. This sludge builds up in the engine apparently - although it is unrelated to my stall issue.
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Does it throw a check engine light? Cause when a system gets to "normal operating temp" it goes into what they call closed loop mode, where instead of running off a base setting of the computer it uses inputs of all the sensors to allow the car to run as efficiant as it can. So you might have a sensor failing, I've also seen fuel pumps start acting up once they get hot, that really wouldn't be associated with engine temp since its in the gas tank though
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I have a Service Vehicle Soon constantly on, I believe it's something to do with the gas cap (pressure) even though the cap is always firmly in place.
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Posted by Intrinsic
I have a Service Vehicle Soon constantly on, I believe it's something to do with the gas cap (pressure) even though the cap is always firmly in place.
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well I would bet if you had it scanned to check for fault codes it would give you a bit more information on your problem. Thats if its not just a scheduled maintenance light, (oil change overdue_). I swear autozone has brainwashed people into thinking everytime there light comes on its due to a faulty gas cap. either that or they own stock in standt. Either way gas caps rarely don't work properly most of the time its just not installed properly. Or like today we had one come in for a Check engine light on and the gas cap was just completely missing.
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Posted by Samurai
1990 is a funny year... early 90's had an "IDLE LEARN" procedure that had to be done when the battery was disconnected.
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so I had him disconnect the battery and let it sit for a while, he says that made a huge difference. So I'm guessing the main problem was the IAC. It's still not perfect, but it's good enough to drive. I guess if he wants to keep fixing, we'll tear into the rest.
Thanks!
Won't you help me, Mr. Jesus, Won't you tell me, if you can
When you see this world we live in, Do you still believe in man? | |
Just had a lumina van (spaceship) in with a high idle etc. But only in the morning .cleaned the throttle body and maf took care of the problem.
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