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No way! It would rule if Greg Dick was trapped down there, just like Winnie the Poo
I drink gasoline for breakfeast and beer for dinner!
Any problem can be licked with a case of beer and a few sticks of dynamite.
Strategic Beer Command ruling the desert since 1995 http://www.strategic-beer-command.com | |
I was the one who left and called the Fire Department. The news story is pretty off, they seem to be under the impression that we were in the Pillsbury building. This is false. Where we actually were is the headrace system that runs underneath the mill. Neither of us ever set foot in the building. While inside the headrace there is a 40 ft. shaft that we descended using repelling gear. This led to an abandoned tailrace; my guess is that it was once used by the long demolished Phoenix Mill.
Anyway, once we rappelled down we found ourselves in freezing, stagnant water. The system was completely sealed, deep underground and was basically a frigid subterranean aquifer. We had anticipated the water and wore life jackets, but seriously underestimated the temperature of the water. Once at the bottom, we swam to dry land and checked for an alternate exit, but couldn’t find anything. This meant that we had to swim back to the rope, attach 2 Prusik knots, one to clip to the harness, the other we tied to a piece of webbing and used as a foot rest. We both swam back to the rope and my friend double checked everything and I ascended. The water was so cold that my hands were numb for the first 10 ft. or so of ascending. The problem was that once it was my friends turn, he had been in and out of the water so many times that he was absolutely freezing and was worried that if he swam back to the rope, his hands might go numb before he could tie the knots to attach himself to the rope. And by this point he was down there by himself and if he froze up, I would be unable to help. Rather than risk doing something that could turn very quickly into a "we need to rescue him in the next 15 minutes or he is dead" situation, I decided to call the fire department.
Neither of us wanted to, but sometimes, even with appropriate precautions, shit just goes wrong. And a dead explorer would certainly cause much more of a public outcry. As it stands, neither of us were charged, the news does not have either of our names, and the fire department battalion chief just told to "explore in St. Paul from now on". All things considered, I apologize if this turns into increased security, or sealed entry points, but I don’t regret my decision to call.
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Posted by CowboyDan
I was the one who left and called the Fire Department. The news story is pretty off, they seem to be under the impression that we were in the Pillsbury building. This is false. Where we actually were is the headrace system that runs underneath the mill. Neither of us ever set foot in the building. While inside the headrace there is a 40 ft. shaft that we descended using repelling gear. This led to an abandoned tailrace; my guess is that it was once used by the long demolished Phoenix Mill.
Anyway, once we rappelled down we found ourselves in freezing, stagnant water. The system was completely sealed, deep underground and was basically a frigid subterranean aquifer. We had anticipated the water and wore life jackets, but seriously underestimated the temperature of the water. Once at the bottom, we swam to dry land and checked for an alternate exit, but couldn’t find anything. This meant that we had to swim back to the rope, attach 2 Prusik knots, one to clip to the harness, the other we tied to a piece of webbing and used as a foot rest. We both swam back to the rope and my friend double checked everything and I ascended. The water was so cold that my hands were numb for the first 10 ft. or so of ascending. The problem was that once it was my friends turn, he had been in and out of the water so many times that he was absolutely freezing and was worried that if he swam back to the rope, his hands might go numb before he could tie the knots to attach himself to the rope. And by this point he was down there by himself and if he froze up, I would be unable to help. Rather than risk doing something that could turn very quickly into a "we need to rescue him in the next 15 minutes or he is dead" situation, I decided to call the fire department.
Neither of us wanted to, but sometimes, even with appropriate precautions, shit just goes wrong. And a dead explorer would certainly cause much more of a public outcry. As it stands, neither of us were charged, the news does not have either of our names, and the fire department battalion chief just told to "explore in St. Paul from now on". All things considered, I apologize if this turns into increased security, or sealed entry points, but I don’t regret my decision to call.
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Wow, come on guy!
in the headrace where you were there is a 40 ft aluminum extension ladder. You could have condensed that and sent it down for the other two ppl. Or you could have just used that to get down there in the first place. OR.. You could have waited just a little longer for your uer registration to go through and asked one of the local explorers if it is worth going down there.. Plenty of ppl could have given you good info. Anyway you look at it, things could have been done different....
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Glad you guys got out safe though
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Posted by PooYo
Wow, come on guy!
in the headrace where you were there is a 40 ft aluminum extension ladder. You could have condensed that and sent it down for the other two ppl. Or you could have just used that to get down there in the first place. OR.. You could have waited just a little longer for your uer registration to go through and asked one of the local explorers if it is worth going down there.. Plenty of ppl could have given you good info. Anyway you look at it, things could have been done different....
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The shaft goes down to the water not dry land, so you would have to account for the depth of the water and add that to the height. Also I question if that extension ladder is 40'. I would guess it to be 25-30'.
Regardless if they lowered it down on the rope and set it up it would get them high enough out of the water to tie the knots in a dry space. If you left the bottom of the rope tied on to the ladder you would be able to lift it up at the end and put it back as well.
[last edit 8/29/2012 10:45 PM by 5alive - edited 1 times]
www.flickr.com/5alive
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Posted by 5alive
The shaft goes down to the water not dry land, so you would have to account for the depth of the water and add that to the height. Also I question if that extension ladder is 40'. I would guess it to be 25-30'.
Regardless if they lowered it down on the rope and set it up it would get them high enough out of the water to tie the knots in a dry space. If you left the bottom of the rope tied on to the ladder you would be able to lift it up at the end and put it back as well.
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I have actually been there when the ladder was sent down. It actually goes all the way through the water to the bottom and reaches up to the start of the metal rungs on the side of the drop shaft. No ropes required.
[last edit 8/29/2012 10:56 PM by PooYo - edited 1 times]
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Your talking about this shaft:
He's talking about this shaft:
http://dfgis.dyndn...w13/deathshaft.jpg
The shaft your talking about has a ground level exit out of another tailrace.
www.flickr.com/5alive
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Cool cool, thanks for clarifying five
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god damn you cowboy dan. here is where you went wrong:
Posted by CowboyDan
The problem was that once it was my friends turn, he had been in and out of the water so many times that he was absolutely freezing and was worried that if he swam back to the rope, his hands might go numb before he could tie the knots to attach himself to the rope. And by this point he was down there by himself and if he froze up, I would be unable to help. Rather than risk doing something that could turn very quickly into a "we need to rescue him in the next 15 minutes or he is dead" situation, I decided to call the fire department.
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i think the real problem was that you and your friend are a couple of little girls. come on, you didnt even try.
Calvin | |
Good point about the ladder, we considered it but decided that since the water in the system was at least 6 ft deep and had no idea about what kind of ground the lader would be resting on once we lowered it, we decided that repelling gear would be the safest method.
As to being little girls, I was able to ascend, but had my friend swam to the rope and not been able to attach the prusiks he would have been floating down there by himself and instead of dealing with potential hypothermia he would have been dealing with actual hypothermia. He had already been in and out of the water numerous times at that point. Even with me leading the firemen into the system, it took 2 hours to get him out. We decided that the risk just was not worth it.
And you guys are right, underestimating the temperature of the water was foolish, as was going down there without asking around here for any information.
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You're supposed to bring a raft and wetsuit... and pee in the wetsuit.
http://www.youtube...atch?v=44lYjOL78aM
FYI there's a dry ledge at the back of that chamber, and the FD could have popped the manhole in the sidewalk at the top of that shaft to get to your buddy faster. You should call us next time 
Turn off the internet and go play outside.
http://spamusement...hp/comics/view/137 | |
awesome video. legendary technique you guys have.
Calvin | |
Stick your hands down your crotch and they'll be warm enough to use within a few minutes.
Buy mechanical ascenders.
So was it Greg Brick or no?
"No risk, no reward, no fun."
"Go all the way or walk away"
escensi omnis... | |
The FD tried to manhole cover idea but could not find it, they think it was probably paved over. We wound dropping down some rope and setting up a ground pully on the ledge, then just pulled him up.
The dry ledge was where my friend was standing, what he was worried about was getting back in the water. I think he could have probably done it, but at that point he was down there by himself and I was going to defer to wether he thought he could do it or not.
And yes, wetsuits and mechanical ascenders are now on the top of my buy list.
No Greg Brick, but he did pop up on Fox news giving his "expert" opinion on UE...
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And this my friends, is where experience and not being cheap comes in. Going anywhere without the minimum of proper gear is BAD planning. You knew you would need to come back up, requiring mechanical ascenders. Prussics were the best they had in 1960. $150 gets you a good ascending rig. A boat us $20. None of this shit is so worth seeing that one should go in blind, with one arm tied behind their back. At least my anchors still hold. Oh yeah, I want my boat back.
I drink gasoline for breakfeast and beer for dinner!
Any problem can be licked with a case of beer and a few sticks of dynamite.
Strategic Beer Command ruling the desert since 1995 http://www.strategic-beer-command.com | |
The ladder doesn't fit around all those angles to get down the shaft.
You should have both known how to tie prussiks if that was your plan for ascending out. And your friend could have attached himself to the rope and sat a couple feet above the water while you ascended. Unless you only had enough ascending gear for one person and no spare rope or shoelaces to tie a temporary prussik...
"Believe those who are seeking the truth; doubt those who find it." | |
Posted by CowboyDan
We wound dropping down some rope and setting up a ground pully on the ledge, then just pulled him up. |
I think you lost the right to use the word "we" during discussions on the rescue technique when you called the ambulance. My wife made that climb so...
Beaten paths are for beaten people. | |
AHHH! THE DEATHSHAFT NEARLY CLAIMS ANOTHER GROUP OF EXPLORERS!!!
If you want to protect the locations you love to explore, don't talk about them online in public!
If you want to make exploring friends, send people private messages! Meet up in real life! Get off the internet!
Don't try to have a UER e-penis! You won't impress anyone! This especially means you, Minneapolis MN newbies! | |
Well, considering I led the fireman through the building and into tunnel, helped them set up the pully system, and pulled him my friend up with the firemen, I'm ok with using the word "we"
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I'll give him props for coming on here and letting people know who he is. Thus catching his guaranteed ration of shit for getting into any kind of 'public' situation.
Good job on getting your buddy out alive, good job on not getting prosecuted either. Next time, Bring Moar Stuff!
My favorite UE quote so far.
"U don't have to be suck a dick about it..." |
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