I'm genuinely interested why you are on this board. I can't figure out your stance on anything because everything you say contradicts yourself and everyone else. You seem to take things to such a point that no one can defend you anymore. You start off with several supporters and like minded people. Then you just go off the path to such a point where you have no one wants to back you up. You refuse to ever admit you're wrong, even though everyone else has been humbled and acknowledged they were wrong about something. Most everyone else seems to have some sort of mutual respect for each other. Where as with you it seems as if you're a misanthrope. In one thread I stated that I have written you off and will never acknowledge anything else you ever say because I feel you are hateful and arrogant. In fact here is my exact post:

Posted by MonkeyPunchBaby I am done even trying to talk to you tek. People like you are the reason intelligent discourse is dying. Everyone else seems to be interested in discussing ideas and beliefs no matter how different they are from their own beliefs. I will from here on ignore everything you say because you contribute nothing but ignorance and hatred for anyone who doesn't believe what you believe.

I am hoping that if perhaps I understand where you are coming from, or perhaps what your views are (besides all religions are evil). Then perhaps I can find common ground and I can actually enjoy talking to you, because honestly every time I read one of your post I just get so angry at how arrogant you are. You make me as angry as the people who made me leave the Christian faith. My stance with them was how can you be so confident you are right? How can you stand there with that attitude and tell me I am wrong for the thoughts and beliefs and opinions I have. Thats how I feel with you.

I do not want this to become a "I hate Tekriter" thread. I just want to understand your view. I am making this a thread because I am pretty sure I'm not the only one wondering this. To have a difference of opinion is one thing. To call people idiots and morons and say they fail when their opinions don't line up with yours, is just hateful.

Here is my stance so everyone knows it as well.

I'm not a member of any faith. I believe in some sort of higher power (some sort of creator.) That being said, I don't believe in the Bible. I believe the big bang could've happened, but with some help some the higher power. Like they put the particles and heat there, and let science do the rest. I'm pro Gay rights and pro life (from fetuses to death row to war). I believe Jesus Christ was a person, but not God on Earth I don't believe in evolution, but rather adaptation. I believe in heaven (as place our souls go and its whatever we want it to be). I don;t believe in Hell. I think as long as you're a good person (i know thats subjective based on culture but I think so long as you don't cause harm to others or yourself your a good person) you will go to Heaven. My stance with Christians has been, if Ghandi can't get into heaven what chance do I have? I quit being a Christian in high school after we went on a mission trip to New York and they wanted us to convert Jews to Christianity. I told them that was wrong and I wasn't going to do it. When we got back from the trip, I left the church and only went to church if I was dating someone who attended church or for the Christmas service at one church back home. Its a beautiful Christmas service, I think everyone should attend it. I went through a phase where I told folks I was Jewish, but now I just like certain aspects of all faiths and religions (science included)

There, thats my beliefs in a nut shell. Hopefully you can reply to this without some sort of attack or avoidance of the questions I asked. I am asking you to be respectful. As I have been to you through this entire thread. I am just wanting to understand you.

For the record, I count myself among Tek's supporters, though I agree he does get a little arrogant and insulting at times.

But, having said that, I think he has a fairly good reason to be arrogant, because his knowledge of religion, and the Bible specifically, is unparalleled here.

The insulting part is one that I do have an issue with, though. I agree totally with Tek that we should be "conversationally intolerant" of ideas that are based merely on faith and not on evidence (i.e., religion), but I draw the line at calling those ideas stupid, or something like that. The reason is, religious belief is usually tied up quite closely with personal identity, so when you insult a religious belief, you're usually insulting the person, which I feel does our ideas a disservice and is generally not cool. It's like attacking someone because of their ethnicity: "You shouldn't be proud of your German heritage because of Hitler."

In his defense (not that he needs me to defend him), he takes a lot of flak for his positions, and gets attacked just as much as the true believers, often with a lot of low blows.

I think this thread is a good idea, and is being handles very well.

I also would like to know where exactly he is coming from, because, yes, he can be a handfull. Just recently he and I got into it, and he got under my skin so much that I started to take cheap shots. Not the right move, of course, but it happened. I still stand by my side of the debate but I still could have and should have handled it better.

Maybe we would not loose our cool with him if we understood where he is coming from. And hopefully, he will take this thread in a positive way.

Posted by splumer .... But, having said that, I think he has a fairly good reason to be arrogant, because his knowledge of religion, and the Bible specifically, is unparalleled here. ... In his defense (not that he needs me to defend him), he takes a lot of flak for his positions, and gets attacked just as much as the true believers, often with a lot of low blows.

Not get a fight started, but he has been proven wrong on things, my(neighbors) internet is shit so i can look through all the post and get examples. He may be very knowledgeable on religion and the bible, but he is by no means always right. I know a lot about video games, I don't pretend or presume to know everything about video games and don't get mad if someone says the GameGear was better than the GameBoy Color.

In regards to the second part, I will quote Ghandi. "An eye for an eye makes the world blind." Just because some religious people attack him(anyone) doesn't he has to attack everyone with a different view point. He has even "attacked" you, when you were providing some info to better make his point. If his problem is the same as mine, the hypochristians, then he needs to learn like I had to, to separate them from true believers.

I am also glad we are able to handle so well so far and I do hope he gets on soon so I can begin to understand.

Posted by splumer But, having said that, I think he has a fairly good reason to be arrogant, because his knowledge of religion, and the Bible specifically, is unparalleled here.

Not about to challenge the bible statement, but he doesn't fair so well in comparative religion.

Not that I've read all Tek's posts but I think he's come across as a pretty level headed guy. I have yet to see him insult someone, though he can shred a poorly reasoned line of thinking regarding the existence of a god, which some may take personally.

I'm not an atheist, but you can't argue against Tek's spot on reasoning around a believers absolute lack of conveyable proof, there is none, never was, never will be...well, maybe...who knows?

The existence of a higher something can only be proven to oneself, can only meet ones own criteria IMO.

Tek get's my support cause he's passionate about what he's saying and he is more often than not, right, except for what he said about Islam, I still hold that the exploitive nature of the US government is more a threat to world peace than is Islam.

Long live Tekriter

I know one thing. He does not have any real knowledge about WWII or Nazi Germany, and is unable to think in the context of the time or a culture.

Posted by splumer a little arrogant and insulting at times.

Yes...but he's a very gentle lover.

Wow. A whole post about me. Flattering.

Posted by MonkeyPunchBaby I do not want this to become a "I hate Tekriter" thread.

Should we ignore the entire first paragraph then? It seems to me like that is exactly what you have set out to do.

Posted by MonkeyPunchBaby I am asking you to be respectful. As I have been to you through this entire thread.

Respectful? Like this?

Posted by MonkeyPunchBaby First of all I would like you to know that I can't stand you. You are arrogant and condescending to anyone who has a different opinion than yours. I do value your opinion, but I don't respect you.

I'm sorry if your motivation for the "hate on for tekkie" thread seems a little querstionable to me, but based on the above and your opening diatribe...

Posted by MonkeyPunchBaby Not get a fight started, but he has been proven wrong on things

That seems exactly like what you are trying to do.

I also respectfully disagree that you have "proven" anything with regards to my arguments. You have, like everyone else here, NOT established yourself as an expert in anything and your "assertion" that I am wrong is only that. Your opinion and nothing more.

If you are inquiring as to my motivation to participate in these discussions it is obvious that I find some intrinsic value - the same as you.

If you are inquiring as to my position with respect to a question or issue, then you need to be a little more specific. Otherwise, my views have been as clearly stated as I am able within this forum.

If you want to know why I am here in the philosophical sense, I suppose the jury is still out on that one, but I would ask: why do we need to exist for a reason? It seems a little anthropomorphic to assume that we are the reason for everything...




It seems to me that, with this thread, you are aiming to claim some moralistic highground, and discredit me as a person with an aim to winning an argument or arguments.

As to the first point I'll submit your inappropriate Gandhi quote as an example. I have attacked no one. This is an anonymous internet discussion and if anything I have only attacked avatars - but in truth I have "attacked" ideas and arguments that are invalid or that I disagree with. Please don't mistake conversational intolerance of unreasonable ideas with personal disrespect. I am sure that you are a very nice person and have value.



On a side note, citing gandhi is not the best way to claim the moral highground. His supporting of absolute non-violence (even in defence of oneself or others) is in and of itself morally questionable and utopian at best.

I'll quote gandhi here:

"Hitler killed five million Jews. It is the greatest crime of our time. But the Jews should have offered themselves to the butcher's knife. They should have thrown themselves into the sea from cliffs."

His justification is that this "would have aroused the world and the people of germany to Hitler's violence"



As for the second, I'll point out that a personal "attack" on me or my motivations does not in any way logically affect my ideas or arguments. I'd prefer to focus on the discussion and the relative merits of different ideas than on my personal shortcomings as a human being.

If you want to know what my position is on a topic, just ask. I am more interested in the ideas and ways of presenting them than with competing ad hominem responses.

But,thanks for asking.

You are delusional.

Period.

Posted by maypost You are delusional. Period.

Like I said, just a thread for haters.

Do you ever have anything of substance to add, or are you just the guy that lurks and drops insults and nothing else?

Like the old guys on the muppets, only not funny.


Or are you the irony guy? Delusional? There are folks here that claim that thier imaginary friend invented the universe. Yet you call me delusional?

I'm mostly wondering why an entire thread attacking a single member is even in existence.

Posted by tekriter Like I said, just a thread for haters.

Are you kidding? I love you!

Posted by ActionSatisfaction Esq. I'm mostly wondering why an entire thread attacking a single member is even in existence.

Its not an attack thread. I put it all out there to really understand him and try to find common ground with him so i could actually have a discussion and not a fight. But yet again my hopes of a decent conversation were ruined by his antagonizing attitude and avoidance of all the questions i asked. So once again I am done with him, unless he actually addresses something instead of trying to argue all the god damn time.

Nobody is attacking tekky. But its hard to get past his arrogance and superiority complex when you have a discussion with him. He doesn't see that he takes a huge leap of faith every time he comes in here "knowing" all the answers. Science is not God, it, like the bible, is a product of man. And therefore can be flawed. Yet he acts like its perfection. Irony. Darwin is his God, the textbook his bible, and the laboratory his church.

Posted by ActionSatisfaction Esq. I'm mostly wondering why an entire thread attacking a single member is even in existence.

Then you obviously have not read any of the thread.

Posted by tekriter Or are you the irony guy? Delusional? There are folks here that claim that thier imaginary friend invented the universe. Yet you call me delusional?

This thread was started to honestly ask where you are coming from so we can maybe have civil conversational.

All you have done is attack people's faith. I really don't care if you believe in a higher power or not. It has nothing to do with me. We all have every right to believe in what we see fit. But attacking people for having their own faith is never acceptable. You are wrong, you know it. But I don't expect you to admit it.

Say all you want. I'm sure the majority of people on here see who is being unreasonable here.

Posted by jeepdave Science is not God, it, like the bible, is a product of man. And therefore can be flawed. Yet he acts like its perfection. Irony. Darwin is his God, the textbook his bible, and the laboratory his church.

Not to hijack this thread, but I think you're wrong. The scientific method is the best (perhaps the only) way to find out the truth about the world. "Science" itself isn't flawed, but scientists are. No one think Darwin was a god, or infallible, or anything like that. The scientific method pre-dates him. He was merely the first to posit a theory of evolution, and subsequent experimentation confirmed his theories. Therefore the method and the system of science remains sound. Scientists are wrong all the time, and it is the fact of them being wrong that allows science to advance.

Posted by maypost This thread was started to honestly ask where you are coming from so we can maybe have civil conversational.

Then why do you use it for name calling and NOT having a civil converstaion?

Posted by maypost All you have done is attack people's faith.

I questioned faith. I have not attacked anyone personally.

Is "people's" faith so delicate and weak that it cannot stand being questioned? or just yours?

Posted by maypost I really don't care if you believe in a higher power or not. It has nothing to do with me. We all have every right to believe in what we see fit. But attacking people for having their own faith is never acceptable. You are wrong, you know it. But I don't expect you to admit it.

Your language is so over the top, it seems that you are unable to accept any different viewpoint than your own. It is clear you are unable to have any reasonable converstaion with anyone that disagrees with you on matters of faith, leaving your only recourse as ad hominem attacks, dismissive language and personal insults.


Perhaps you would be more comfortable in a forum just for people who want to reaffirm faith and always agree with one another?

It is only your opinion that questioning faith is unacceptable - yet you phrase it as though this is the only option open.

You ask for the freedom to believe whatever you want. The corollary is that others have the freedom to disagree and question your publicly stated beliefs.

There are no such things as private beleifs. The things you believe affect your actions and everyone around you.

It is time to stop allowing "special pleading" for unreasonable beliefs simply because they have been labeled religious or faith based.

In your day to day life you demand a higher evidentary standard for everything you do - why should that be different just because you put faith in front of a publicly stated belief?

This same societal idea has been responsible for untold number of atrocities and hate all through history because people were not allowed to question unreasonable ideas of religious leaders and institutions.

Posted by maypost Say all you want. I'm sure the majority of people on here see who is being unreasonable here.

I will say all I want.

I'll also point out that just because the majority of people believe something does not make it true.


But it does explain your motivation for insulting me pointlessly at every opportunity and the existence of this thread at all.

Posted by jeepdave Nobody is attacking tekky. But its hard to get past his arrogance and superiority complex when you have a discussion with him.

Res Ipsa Loquitur

Posted by jeepdave He doesn't see that he takes a huge leap of faith every time he comes in here "knowing" all the answers. Science is not God, it, like the bible, is a product of man. And therefore can be flawed. Yet he acts like its perfection. Irony. Darwin is his God, the textbook his bible, and the laboratory his church.

You don't know how I act, nor do you know what I believe. You misrepresent my position on everything to support your own stereotype of people that don't believe the unreasonable things about the universe that you do.

You also clearly misunderstand the difference between faith and belief, and between reasonable and unreasonable beliefs.