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UER Forum > In Memoriam > 06/15/08 - Ryan Nyenhuis dies at Hearn (Viewed 50461 times)
Crossfire 


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Re: 26-year-old from Northern Ontario falls, dies at R.L.Hearn
< Reply # 140 on 6/18/2008 2:19 PM >
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I just wanted to pipe in here and give my condolences to anybody who knew this young man, to his family and to his friends. This is a terrible, stupid, senseless tragedy. I've been a part of this community for many, many years now and I think this is the first time I've heard of an explorer dying during an outing.

What I hope this serves as is a wake-up call to those of us who don't take the environs we prowl through seriously, who don't understand the dangers and the risks we take, and who think it's some kind of game. Chances are this explorer was being careful, and they still tripped, fell and died.

Additionally, this isn't the place to be arguing board policies and who owns what land and who takes whom exploring with them. Have some respect for the life lost and start a new thread somewhere about those things.

Crossfire.




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Jono 


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civilly disobedient.

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Re: 26-year-old from Northern Ontario falls, dies at R.L.Hearn
< Reply # 141 on 6/18/2008 2:28 PM >
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Not sure if it got posted yet - but a half-pager in today's Globe and Mail:

http://www.theglob...//TPStory/National

J->




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cyn1c4l 


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Re: 26-year-old from Northern Ontario falls, dies at R.L.Hearn
< Reply # 142 on 6/18/2008 2:36 PM >
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This is a sad tale, my condolences go out to family and friends of the fallen explorer (self-proclaimed or otherwise).


Now, onto a serious matter.


Unfortunately, this incident only firmly cements in the minds of security and property managers the "dangers of UE". When those of us who have been escorted off a site (any site), which most of the old timers here have at one point or another, everyone cites the "Well, if you get hurt we're liable" belief. I'm curious to see what the repercussions of this incident are.

If we see a law suit (successful or not) from the family of this fallen person against OPG, or whoever, we will be shit out of luck and jolly well fucked, because every site worth mentioning will go on mega-lockdown.

Remember, the appearance of impropriety is greater than any single act of impropriety.

This is not to cast judgement, one way or the other; rather it's a simple statment of facts. Because, before now, nobody has been able to really cite an incident (in Toronto/GTA at least) where an explorer has been seriously injured. Whether Hearn should have been safer or not is not in question, as the damage has already been done.

The media/un-educated public will likely have a field day with this. Personally, I'm going to cool off my explorations for a little while until I see how this turns out; whereas TPS has a reputation for letting UERs off with a TPA or a verbal warning previously, the public onus will be on them to prosecute a little more firmly "for safety's sake".

I apologize in advance for those who take this warning out of context, but it's a sad repercussion in the wake of this tragic incident.

As always, be safe.

_Cyn




guest@cyns_box$ gcc -o pwnd sploit.c
guest@cyns_box$ ./pwnd
error: r00t this. Connection terminated by remote host.
kowalski 


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Re: 26-year-old from Northern Ontario falls, dies at R.L.Hearn
< Reply # 143 on 6/18/2008 2:43 PM >
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Posted by cyn1c4l
Unfortunately, this incident only firmly cements in the minds of security and property managers the "dangers of UE". When those of us who have been escorted off a site (any site), which most of the old timers here have at one point or another, everyone cites the "Well, if you get hurt we're liable" belief. I'm curious to see what the repercussions of this incident are.

If there are dangers, maybe we should start acting like adults and stop pretending they don't exist?

If we see a law suit (successful or not) from the family of this fallen person against OPG, or whoever, we will be shit out of luck and jolly well fucked, because every site worth mentioning will go on mega-lockdown.

I think speculating about lawsuits is a waste of time at the moment. What's more likely is that there will probably, and hopefully, be a coroner's inquest down the road. No one is going to sue before asking for an inquest, and I would be surprised if one wasn't granted in this case.


Whether Hearn should have been safer or not is not in question, as the damage has already been done.

Well no, I think this is exactly the question that should concern both us and the wider public, not whether or not it's going to make it more difficult for dorks like us to go take pictures inside wrecked buildings.





yokes 


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Re: 26-year-old from Northern Ontario falls, dies at R.L.Hearn
< Reply # 144 on 6/18/2008 2:46 PM >
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Posted by kowalski

If there are dangers, maybe we should start acting like adults and stop pretending they don't exist?



I didn't realize that "we" were doing otherwise.




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kowalski 


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Re: 26-year-old from Northern Ontario falls, dies at R.L.Hearn
< Reply # 145 on 6/18/2008 2:47 PM >
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Posted by yokes
I didn't realize that "we" were doing otherwise.

The tone of Cynical's post would seem to indicate otherwise.




micro 


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Re: 26-year-old from Northern Ontario falls, dies at R.L.Hearn
< Reply # 146 on 6/18/2008 2:52 PM >
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Posted by TRAINS
Axle, did you get paid for that article? Half of it is just your quotations. Good journalism for sure.


It's not bad journalism. I tend to prefer ones that are written that way. Would you rather have had him write an article where he starts paraphrasing quotes or interjects his own opinions into things?

The article also seems to imply that Ninj perished in a exploration-related accident (as no other explanation is given and the article is based on an explorer's death). It's amazing the slant that journalists put on stories, no matter the content.


I think that's a bit of a stretch. Besides, for every journalist who talks about the risks of urban exploration, there are probably hundreds of explorers out there who'll happily tell people how dangerous their hobby is. Ditto for the illegal aspects of what we do. How many websites out there have you seen with cheesy disclaimers warning people about either of these things? And yet a lot of people cry foul whenever a journalist happens to mention them. Suddenly it becomes "slant."

If you don't want things to be sensationalized in the media, then stop sensationalizing it yourself. It's as simple as that.

If anyone asks me about the hazards of urban exploration, I'll tell them I find that the "outside world" far more dangerous than anything I've encountered in areas that are considered off-limits. It's what I believe and to suggest otherwise would just be playing into a stereotype that I feel works against us in the long run.



[last edit 6/18/2008 2:56 PM by micro - edited 1 times]

Shr-eddie 


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Re: 26-year-old from Northern Ontario falls, dies at R.L.Hearn
< Reply # 147 on 6/18/2008 2:58 PM >
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As to the recent ue article, I think it's a better idea to secure the fact that at least one member has morals or whatever you want to call them.


Asked how he reconciles the need to trespass to get into such sites, he said, "I don't go in with the intent to damage the property. I don't break into a building; I look for an open door, I look for a hole in the wall, an open window, something that I can just walk in. If I can't get in without walking in, I walk away.


A good opposition to what was stated in the article earlier, and another previous national post article.

Urban exploration, which can involve trespassing and breaking and entering, is a fringe activity that has gained popularity in recent years, especially among photographers intrigued by the decay of the built environment.


Well chosen quotes anyways.




"Make like a tree and fuck off" - Ricky
micro 


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Re: 26-year-old from Northern Ontario falls, dies at R.L.Hearn
< Reply # 148 on 6/18/2008 3:07 PM >
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Maybe, but in the same article he's quoted as saying the following:

"I am fully trained in first aid and carry a kit with me, and have had to use it on a couple of occasions," he said, adding that he once treated another hobbyist who injured himself punching through glass."

The author also used the term "break and enter" so I'm not sure how successful Axle was in getting his point across. Maybe he should've used the term "we" instead of "I." Or maybe it wouldn't have made any difference either way. Who knows?

Here's the line:

"Urban exploration, which can involve trespassing and breaking and entering, is a fringe activity that has gained popularity in recent years"




kowalski 


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Re: 26-year-old from Northern Ontario falls, dies at R.L.Hearn
< Reply # 149 on 6/18/2008 3:15 PM >
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Posted by micro
If anyone asks me about the hazards of urban exploration, I'll tell them I find that the "outside world" far more dangerous than anything I've encountered in areas that are considered off-limits. It's what I believe and to suggest otherwise would just be playing into a stereotype that I feel works against us in the long run.

I agree with you on the general point. However, Hearn has been a demolition site for years now, and we've all taken advantage of how laxly the management approached the task of both securing the site and completing the demolition in a timely manner.

If that same negligence contributed to the victim's death in ways that go beyond simply facilitating his entry into the structure, that's something that should concern us and that we should take account of maturely. The temptation I'm sure is to skirt that subject because it heads into the same domain of uncomfortable contradictions that you reference. I agree with you that most of the time, what we do is no more dangerous than driving or walking down a street. This weekend's accident may have just been an unpredictable chance outcome, it may have been an objective mistake that the victim made, or it may have been produced by carelessness on the part of the site management and contractors working inside it.

Whichever possibility turns out to be the case, I think we all should be adjusting our own personal accounting on the subject, rather than worrying that it's going to produce a more difficult environment for us to do what we've been doing. Maybe it should be more difficult. Certainly in the case of Hearn, it probably should have been more difficult, especially once they went from dismantling the lower level plant to apparently dismantling structural fittings on the upper levels.




Axle 


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Re: 26-year-old from Northern Ontario falls, dies at R.L.Hearn
< Reply # 150 on 6/18/2008 3:31 PM >
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Posted by micro
"I am fully trained in first aid and carry a kit with me, and have had to use it on a couple of occasions," he said, adding that he once treated another hobbyist who injured himself punching through glass."


Same article yes. I never mentioned that the kid I mentioned was another explorer. I just said it was a random guy a group of us ran into while aiming to get inside a particular building, when we saw him outside the building.





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kowalski 


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Re: 26-year-old from Northern Ontario falls, dies at R.L.Hearn
< Reply # 151 on 6/18/2008 3:38 PM >
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Posted by Axle
Same article yes. I never mentioned that the kid I mentioned was another explorer.

And I think this nicely bookends Liz's point from yesterday; the only place the "explorer" / non-"explorer" dichotomy has any play is on internet forums like this one. My recommendation would be to give it up.




micro 


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Re: 26-year-old from Northern Ontario falls, dies at R.L.Hearn
< Reply # 152 on 6/18/2008 3:39 PM >
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Yeah, I guess in his mind, the guy you ran into was "another explorer" regardless of whether you knew him or not.



[last edit 6/18/2008 3:40 PM by micro - edited 1 times]

TRAINS 

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Re: 26-year-old from Northern Ontario falls, dies at R.L.Hearn
< Reply # 153 on 6/18/2008 4:22 PM >
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Posted by micro


It's not bad journalism. I tend to prefer ones that are written that way. Would you rather have had him write an article where he starts paraphrasing quotes or interjects his own opinions into things?



That is a good point. I think it's just lazy writing overall. Perhaps not so much in this case since the writer did his own research when interviewing people. Still, a few quotes seemed to be used out of context, as Axle had explained the injured individual whom he assisted with first aid was not an explorer with the same party, but this wasn't noted in the article.



I think that's a bit of a stretch. Besides, for every journalist who talks about the risks of urban exploration, there are probably hundreds of explorers out there who'll happily tell people how dangerous their hobby is. Ditto for the illegal aspects of what we do. How many websites out there have you seen with cheesy disclaimers warning people about either of these things? And yet a lot of people cry foul whenever a journalist happens to mention them. Suddenly it becomes "slant."

If you don't want things to be sensationalized in the media, then stop sensationalizing it yourself. It's as simple as that.

It's what I believe and to suggest otherwise would just be playing into a stereotype that I feel works against us in the long run.


It's not so much I disagree that the writer sensationalized the dangers of our hobby, just rather the given description of Ninj made it sound, to the average reader, that he also died during exploring, which is not the case. Besides that, there isn't much slant in this article. Afterall, most of it was lifted directly from an interview (I disagree with a few things that were said, but overall it was a factual and unbiased interview).


If anyone asks me about the hazards of urban exploration, I'll tell them I find that the "outside world" far more dangerous than anything I've encountered in areas that are considered off-limits.


Ain't that the truth.





Baby like the way I wake her up, 'Cause I'm a gangsta, I grab her by the butt, Pull her to my side, I'm in deep, Woke that ass up just to put her to sleep
cyn1c4l 


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Re: 26-year-old from Northern Ontario falls, dies at R.L.Hearn
< Reply # 154 on 6/18/2008 5:40 PM >
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Again, seeing as this is a private topic, it is already assumed that everyone here is well aware of the dangers of Hearn, and other long abandoned, under demolition sites (like Malt).

We all know, and accept the risks of the dangerous sites we visit. Malt has a HUGE risk factor, especially if you've never been there and are visiting it in the dark dark night. My message was not a dissertation on the safety of UEing... rather the direction society is going to go with this, at least in the short term.

I am not saying "OMG! Lawsuits galore!", rather, I'm posing an interesting question as to what will be the likely outcome of this incident as it relates to the Toronto/GTA UE'ing scene. I'm not going to engage in a battle of semantics, because I don't care to. I'm simply stating that as explorers, we now have a new hurdle when dealing with security/police revolving around UE'ing.

It's no longer a simple "beat it kid" attitude.




guest@cyns_box$ gcc -o pwnd sploit.c
guest@cyns_box$ ./pwnd
error: r00t this. Connection terminated by remote host.
Samurai 

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Re: 26-year-old from Northern Ontario falls, dies at R.L.Hearn
< Reply # 155 on 6/18/2008 5:43 PM >
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i think in many ways, we underestimate the areas we routinely wander through. Many of these environs have been open to the elements for decades, or have been seriously weakened through continuing stages of demolition. It's a very serious concern for myself and the group of people that I go with here in the northeast. Even on the catwalks where I work, an active plant!, the railings/catwalks have failed and almost sent me plummeting 100+ feet to my doom. My point is that you can never been too careful and to me it sounds like this guy just got caught out somehow.





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Re: 26-year-old from Northern Ontario falls, dies at R.L.Hearn
< Reply # 156 on 6/18/2008 5:47 PM >
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Posted by Samurai
i think in many ways, we underestimate the areas we routinely wander through. Many of these environs have been open to the elements for decades, or have been seriously weakened through continuing stages of demolition. It's a very serious concern for myself and the group of people that I go with here in the northeast. Even on the catwalks where I work, an active plant!, the railings/catwalks have failed and almost sent me plummeting 100+ feet to my doom. My point is that you can never been too careful and to me it sounds like this guy just got caught out somehow.




Good points.

This should really be a learning experience for the entire UE community. The point is that we never know the potential for danger in this hobby that many of us take so modestly.

Think about it. We've all done sketchy things while UEing, for Me I climbed a coal silo at th American Laundry Machinery Co. Given it was only three stories tall, I still could have plummeted to my demise among a pile of rubble.


I am certainly not telling everyone here not to UE and take chances, just be aware of the potential hazards, and PLAN ACCORDINGLY!




http://cat.org.au/~predator/approach.txt

There is a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart, that you can't take part; you can't even passively take part, and you've got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus, and you've got to make it stop...
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Re: 26-year-old from Northern Ontario falls, dies at R.L.Hearn
< Reply # 157 on 6/18/2008 5:48 PM >
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Posted by cyn1c4l
I am not saying "OMG! Lawsuits galore!", rather, I'm posing an interesting question as to what will be the likely outcome of this incident as it relates to the Toronto/GTA UE'ing scene. I'm not going to engage in a battle of semantics, because I don't care to. I'm simply stating that as explorers, we now have a new hurdle when dealing with security/police revolving around UE'ing.

It's no longer a simple "beat it kid" attitude.

I'm not convinced that the media is actually going to go to town on this story, or that it is going to have any real impact on how police or private security are going to react to you. Right now it's just another thing that's happened in a very big city, and the media is still busy focusing on the double murder of two ostensibly upstanding white kids in their SUV.




Jono 


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Re: 26-year-old from Northern Ontario falls, dies at R.L.Hearn
< Reply # 158 on 6/18/2008 5:57 PM >
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On a somewhat ironic note, I just happened to glance at my calendar (one of Yokes' UE ones), and July's picture is...you guessed it...Hearn. heh.

J->




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cyn1c4l 


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Re: 26-year-old from Northern Ontario falls, dies at R.L.Hearn
< Reply # 159 on 6/18/2008 5:59 PM >
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Posted by kowalski
and the media is still busy focusing on the double murder of two ostensibly upstanding white kids in their SUV.


I blame crack.




guest@cyns_box$ gcc -o pwnd sploit.c
guest@cyns_box$ ./pwnd
error: r00t this. Connection terminated by remote host.
UER Forum > In Memoriam > 06/15/08 - Ryan Nyenhuis dies at Hearn (Viewed 50461 times)
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