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Axle
Location: Milton, ON Gender: Male Total Likes: 507 likes
Sieg oder Tod
| | | Re: Evolution vs. Intelligent design...discuss < Reply # 8 on 1/23/2006 4:27 PM > | Reply with Quote
| | | Why pit the two against each other? This may sound strange coming from a Christian, but yes I do think that evolution played a part in the formation of the world and all the creatures that now occupy it, however there must have been some force guiding it, hence Intelligent design. The Bible lays out that God created the heavens and the Earth. It does say six days, but that's a modern translation, a direct translation, in reality the term 'days' actually meant periods of time. Old Earth Creationism, is the official term. So now, God created the Earth, I don't care how he did it, but science does show that all life have evolved over time, so both must be right. Intelligent Evolutionary Design. Do I belive man came from apes...nope, there's no link between the two, and the fact that everything shares common building blocks only continue to prove intelligent design...why re-invent the wheel?
| Celer at Audax Para la Victoria Siempre Alemanes! |
| Noah Vale
Location: Portland, Or Total Likes: 2 likes
It's nobler to never get paid, than to bank on shit and dismay
| | | | | Re: Evolution vs. Intelligent design...discuss < Reply # 9 on 1/23/2006 6:38 PM > | Reply with Quote
| | | Posted by Axle Do I belive man came from apes...nope, there's no link between the two, and the fact that everything shares common building blocks only continue to prove intelligent design...why re-invent the wheel?
| Only the fact that human and chimpanzees DNA are 98.4% (and possibly 99.5%) identical, that human and gorilla DNA is 97.7% identical, with the same percentage for human orangutan. 1And common building blocks, assuming you are talking about DNA--> RNA--> protein etc, is hardly proof for intelligent design. It only shows that nature is lazy, and will stick to a solution that works, selecting out those that work less efficiently. Besides, no one can prove intelligent design, as religion is based on faith. If religion were based on cold hard fact and proven scientific theory(I use the term, but in no means do I mean to say that ID is a scientific theory), then, by definition, it would no longer be religion. 1. Goodman M et al. "Primate Phylogeny and Classification Elucidated at the Molecular Level," Evolutionary Theory and Practice: Modern Perspectives 193, 207 (S.P. Wasser ed., Kluwer Academic Publishers 1999).
| "Dallas is a magnificent and wide open city, and I'm deeply envious of any urban explorers who have the good fortune to live there." -Ninj. |
| ~pandora~
Location: guelph/toronto Gender: Female Total Likes: 0 likes
| | | Re: Evolution vs. Intelligent design...discuss < Reply # 10 on 1/23/2006 6:54 PM > | Reply with Quote
| | | I agree with the direction you are going in, that evolution and intelligent design should not be directly pinned against each other. However, I believe that our evolution, all the way from micro-organisms, came before any intelligent design. Over billions of years, we did develop into ape-like creatures, however, it was intelligent design that ultimately led to our becoming what we are today. I do not believe that intelligent design came from any 'god' such like the ones described in the various religions; it was some other form of life that recognized the potential of our ancestors and gave us the gift of conscious thought, the one thing that distinguishes us from other animals. Clearly, there must be something else out there that would be capable of giving us this gift; I have never heard a piece of evidence that would lead me to believe otherwise. And just as humans develop our technologies and begin to explore more distant regions of space, so did whatever gave us our conciousness. So it may be that one day, humans will spark the beginning of another civilization on another planet, and we will begin to be regarded as gods. That is how I explain the missing link of evolution and where intelligent design fits in
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| Noah Vale
Location: Portland, Or Total Likes: 2 likes
It's nobler to never get paid, than to bank on shit and dismay
| | | | | Re: Evolution vs. Intelligent design...discuss < Reply # 12 on 1/23/2006 7:39 PM > | Reply with Quote
| | | Posted by KublaKhan Are you sure about that?
| Agreed. If you feel that humans are the only ones with conscious thought, and a sense of self, you desperately need to read the book "Drawing the Line," By Steven M. Wise. The author is an animal rights lawyer looking at the case for animals rights from a scientific point of view. Granted, no (known) animal has thought processes on par with ours, but to say that it's an "all or nothing" arrangement is terribly arrogant.* *Not calling you arrogant, but the human race, and it's anthropocentric dogma in general.
| "Dallas is a magnificent and wide open city, and I'm deeply envious of any urban explorers who have the good fortune to live there." -Ninj. |
| KublaKhan
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland Total Likes: 207 likes
With Satan, it's always gimmie, gimmie.
| | | Re: Evolution vs. Intelligent design...discuss < Reply # 13 on 1/23/2006 7:58 PM > | Reply with Quote
| | | Posted by Noah Vale
Agreed. If you feel that humans are the only ones with conscious thought, and a sense of self, you desperately need to read the book "Drawing the Line," By Steven M. Wise. The author is an animal rights lawyer looking at the case for animals rights from a scientific point of view. Granted, no (known) animal has thought processes on par with ours, but to say that it's an "all or nothing" arrangement is terribly arrogant.* *Not calling you arrogant, but the human race, and it's anthropocentric dogma in general.
| You are my new Best Friend.
| "The truth is knowable. But probably not, ever, incontrovertible." --Don DeLillo PICS |
| KublaKhan
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland Total Likes: 207 likes
With Satan, it's always gimmie, gimmie.
| | | Re: Evolution vs. Intelligent design...discuss < Reply # 15 on 1/23/2006 11:06 PM > | Reply with Quote
| | | Posted by ~pandora~ I completely did not mean that animals do not think. I have been around animals my whole life and am as good a person as any to argue that animals are fully capable of communication, thought process etc. What I suppose I mean by 'conscious thought' is that humans are able to take what we are taught, process it, question it, and develop systems by which to advance this knowledge. I may not be explaining this in the best way, but you should be able to see my point. If you do not agree with the way that I am trying to describe the difference between other animals and humans, then please feel free to describe your view. What I was trying to say in my original point was that the intelligent design part of evolution was humans being given the abilities that we have that distinguish us from other life on earth.
| I follow what you're saying here. It's the humans being given the abilities that we have that distinguish us from other life on earth bit that throws me off. Given? By whom? Or by what?
| "The truth is knowable. But probably not, ever, incontrovertible." --Don DeLillo PICS |
| ~pandora~
Location: guelph/toronto Gender: Female Total Likes: 0 likes
| | | Re: Evolution vs. Intelligent design...discuss < Reply # 16 on 1/24/2006 2:53 AM > | Reply with Quote
| | | Posted by KublaKhan
I follow what you're saying here. It's the humans being given the abilities that we have that distinguish us from other life on earth bit that throws me off. Given? By whom? Or by what?
| haha, if only I could give a correct answer. Given, blessed with, experimented upon; I don't know. But like I said before, I have never been given any evidence that would suggest that we are alone in this universe. I have also never been given enough evidence to believe that evolution is the only force that put humans in the position we are in today (there is that 'missing link'). So, although I obviously can't provide any 100% answers, I can say that it follows my logic that there must have been something that pushed us along the evolutionary pathway into what we are today. I think that the being defined by religions as god was whatever *creature/alien/being* that filled that missing link in the theory of evolution. I don't know how, possibly through some sort of enlightenment or experimentation. That's completely beyond me. I know that last part especially sounds kind of like science-fiction or something, but if someone can directly point out the impossibility of it, please do. Think about it like this: as humans further advance our technology, will we not also begin to explore other places, giving us the power to spark a civilization (be it from scratch or from whatever existing life that we find)?
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