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maZe
       
location:
Montreal/Moncton/Ottawa
Gender: Female
"All the world's a stage and most of us are desperately unrehearsed" - Sean O'Casey
 |  |  |  | FYI - "Break and enter"
< on 3/14/2007 6:19 PM >
|  | | | I was researching something for work and found that definition from the Criminal Code for "Break and Entering". I thought it might be of interest to some of you:
“Break” means to break any internal or external part, or to open any thing that is used to close or cover an internal or external opening (Criminal Code, s. 321). “Place” means any building, structure, motor vehicle, vessel, aircraft, railway vehicle, container or trailer. It is further clarified that a person is considered to enter as soon as any part of his or her body or any instrument being used comes within the thing being entered, and that a person is considered to have broken and entered if he or she obtained entrance by threat, artifice or collusion with a person within, or entered without lawful justification or excuse by a permanent or temporary opening.
Mechfreak57 in the UER chat : "George W. Bush is not perfect. He fucked up the borders and Irak is a shit storm but he's the best we've got. "
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controleman
 
location:
Montreal
Gender: Male
| | | Re: FYI - "Break and enter"
<Reply # 1 on 3/14/2007 7:26 PM >
| | | | Ok, alors si on franchit une porte ouverte on est condamné pour ''enter''? 
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micro
Gender: Male
Slowly I turned
| | Re: FYI - "Break and enter"
<Reply # 2 on 3/14/2007 8:29 PM >
| | | | "or entered without lawful justification or excuse"
So is there nothing in the provincial code that deals specifically with lesser degrees of trespassing, or is all trespassing considered break and enter here in Quebec?
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cjb
location:
Sept-îles/Saint-John's/Corner Brooks/Montréal/Sydney
Gender: Male
| | | Re: FYI - "Break and enter"
<Reply # 3 on 3/14/2007 11:04 PM >
| | | | Conclusion of my last year (costy- around 6000$) trial: You cannot be accused of B&E if you haven't broken anything or forced anything. At least in Quebec.
http://www.magazin...dossiers/index.htm |
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Alvin
location:
Montreal
Gender: Male
Photography & Sound
| | Re: FYI - "Break and enter"
<Reply # 4 on 3/15/2007 1:58 AM >
| | | | Posted by maZe
I was researching something for work and found that definition from the Criminal Code for "Break and Entering". I thought it might be of interest to some of you:
without lawful justification or excuse by a permanent or temporary opening.
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Well , is taking pictures in a place where there is no sign or visible element to warn about the prohibition of taking pictures a lawful justification ? logically I find that there is nothing damaging to the "place" if we only walk around and only take pictures .
©---(®) Alvin (®)---© |
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SPEK Photo
location:
Where you were not.
"Chere cachère!"
| | | Re: FYI - "Break and enter"
<Reply # 5 on 3/15/2007 4:28 AM >
| | | | "without lawful justification or excuse by a permanent or temporary opening"
basically if you walk in the place and are not warned of doing something bad by a sign a device or a person mendated to to guard the place... you are not doing anything bad unless entered with the intention to commit a crime or if you don't quit as soon as you are warned by the owner , the police, a guard... etc. etc.
theres is a couple of paragraph missing to the quote maze I saw somewhere the whole law article on the web.
Pour fins d'archives.
WWW.EXPLORATIONURBAINE.CA |
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maZe
location:
Montreal/Moncton/Ottawa
Gender: Female
"All the world's a stage and most of us are desperately unrehearsed" - Sean O'Casey
| | | | Re: FYI - "Break and enter"
<Reply # 6 on 3/15/2007 12:33 PM >
| | | | Posted by SPEK Photo
theres is a couple of paragraph missing to the quote maze I saw somewhere the whole law article on the web.
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Yes I know, as I said, I was working on something else for work, which is totally unrelated to Break and Enter but this paragraph was interesting to UE. So I copy pasted it. Of course, you might want to read the Criminal Code, s. 321 for the full version.
But this is the official definition as used in some of the Criminal Code laws. It's from a reference document.
For the "it's different in Québec" argument, this is the Criminal Code, which applies to all provinces, including Québec. The Common Law applies everywhere except in Québec, where it is replace by the Code Civil.
Mechfreak57 in the UER chat : "George W. Bush is not perfect. He fucked up the borders and Irak is a shit storm but he's the best we've got. "
Save the world - adopt an American! |
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NoSuchPerson
Stop, or I'll ask you again!
| | Re: FYI - "Break and enter"
<Reply # 7 on 3/15/2007 4:57 PM >
| | | | You can also be charged for B&E if you're found on a property you don't have permission to be on, and the officer feels you have intent to commit an offence.
Canada doesn't have a "criminal trespass" charge - this is about the closest thing we have.
Unit calling radio say again? |
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mewthree
location:
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Gender: Male
| | | Re: FYI - "Break and enter"
<Reply # 8 on 3/16/2007 3:43 AM >
| | | | There doesn't always have to be a sign saying DO NOT ENTER or something of the alike. Apparently a fence acts as a sign. You could be in an empty field with not a single thing but grass or weeds in it.. but if there's a fence around it you can be charged.. or so I was told. I would just be pointless for the cops to charge you if you were not doing anything wrong and it wasn't close to the Quota deadline.
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NoSuchPerson
Stop, or I'll ask you again!
| | Re: FYI - "Break and enter"
<Reply # 9 on 3/16/2007 6:59 PM >
| | | | Under the Trespass to Property Act (which is Ontario, but I imagine other provinces/states are similar), you must be given notice of trespass. Notice can happen in many forms. It can be a sign, it can be a person telling you to get lost, it can be a fence, closed door, etc...
Generally speaking, if you're somewhere you know you aren't supposed to be, it's considered trespassing. As such, you don't necessarily have to be given a chance to leave. For example, if you are in a shopping mall and a guard finds you in an "employees only" area. If he/she wanted to be professional, they'd tell you to scram first. However, legally speaking, they could arrest you on the spot and turn you over to the Police.
Also, there's no such thing as a quota, at lest in Ontario. Such things are illegal under various acts. However, there is a reasonable expectation for officers to bring in a certain number of tickets. For example, the ETF in Toronto are now required to bring in a certain number of tickets, warnings, contact cards, etc... They won't get fired if they don't, but management won't be happy.
[last edit 3/16/2007 7:01 PM by NoSuchPerson - edited 1 times]
Unit calling radio say again? |
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kowalski
| | Re: FYI - "Break and enter"
<Reply # 10 on 3/16/2007 8:51 PM >
| | | | | Apparently a fence acts as a sign. |
Because trespass is a civil offense, this varies by province. In Ontario, a fence alone is sufficient warning, while in Alberta, signs must be posted on said fence.
Break and enter is completely different, it's a criminal offense and applies only to physical structures, vehicles and containers.
[last edit 3/16/2007 8:52 PM by kowalski - edited 1 times]
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mewthree
location:
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Gender: Male
| | | Re: FYI - "Break and enter"
<Reply # 11 on 3/18/2007 2:39 AM >
| | | | Yeah but who on this site goes through the hole on the fence and then doesn't go into the building?
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jumpman
location:
On a computer
You can't do that without rope.
| | Re: FYI - "Break and enter"
<Reply # 12 on 3/30/2007 7:15 PM >
| | | | me.
:p
Urban development is what happens when the planners are trying to figure out what to do. By the time they have it sorted, the development has already happened. |
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jumpman
location:
On a computer
You can't do that without rope.
| | Re: FYI - "Break and enter"
<Reply # 13 on 3/30/2007 7:28 PM >
| | | | Also:
Since trespass is governed by the civil code here, it IS different in Quebec. Most security guards will try and nail you with trespassing rather than deal with trying to prove a criminal offense when it's not all that easy. Police, on the other hand, I'm not sure about. I avoid them if I can, since I try not to do anything illegal.
my take on it:
People own property. Regardless of where you are, someone is charged with the responsibility of taking care of that place, and they have to deal with all aspects of the property. Security guards are chartered to deal with some aspects of it (protect the property and the institution, not always the people) Homeowners have to deal with all of it.
If the property owner does not tell you that you can be on this property, then you can't (unless you have the authority to say otherwise). You are definitely tresspassing. You haven't hurt anyone, but you may have caused some form of difficulty to the property owner or inhabitant.
If you have done something to gain access to the property that dammages it, it's as if you've committed vandalism in order to trespass. Then you have definitely caused material dammages, and possible caused someone indirect harm.
The tricky part is the bit about "does not tell you that you CAN be on the property". Without signs, people or something indicating that the area is closed, it's taken as a de-facto right that people can use a property as they see fit. This is why things like squatting laws exist. So, if I, as a property owner, don't indicate that you can't be there, then there is no reason you can't be there (doing something reasonable). I can, however, tell you to leave. If you don't, I can do various things to get you to leave, depending on the circumstances. Of course, that's another topic entirely.
Basically, if you plan on doing anything that you're unsure about, get a good lawyer.
Urban development is what happens when the planners are trying to figure out what to do. By the time they have it sorted, the development has already happened. |
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maZe
location:
Montreal/Moncton/Ottawa
Gender: Female
"All the world's a stage and most of us are desperately unrehearsed" - Sean O'Casey
| | | | Re: FYI - "Break and enter"
<Reply # 14 on 3/31/2007 6:36 AM >
| | | | Posted by jumpman
Also:
Since trespass is governed by the civil code here, it IS different in Quebec. |
Trespassing = civil and different in Qc
B&E = Criminal Code, all over Canada, including Qc.
[last edit 3/31/2007 6:37 AM by maZe - edited 1 times]
Mechfreak57 in the UER chat : "George W. Bush is not perfect. He fucked up the borders and Irak is a shit storm but he's the best we've got. "
Save the world - adopt an American! |
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