Infiltration

n-rock location: Oakland, CA, USA \|	Re: Stealing or salvaging <Reply # 60 on 11/8/2003 7:09 PM >

	I've worked as an archaeologist for a couple consulting firms - i think our way of thinking about old stuff is relevant here: - we consider archaeological remains (including historic buildings) as a 'resources' that belong to the public as a whole. - if there's a project that's going to destroy the resource, we first try to persuade the developer to avoid the site or building. If that's not possible, and the materials will be destroyed, we'll record it or excavate it in order to leave a record for the future. - if we collect objects, we make sure that they end up in the public domain (museum, state historic preservation office, etc). I think this approach can serve as a good guide for UE, too. There are some grey areas that have come up in this thread. Here's my 2 cents. If there's valuable historic information (like those mine documents) that will be destroyed, I think there's a good case for taking them, as long as they end up in public hands, i.e. museum of library. Private property rights can be trumped by the overall public interest sometimes. But taking them for your private collection would be wrong. There's a difference between private and public space. Taking things from private buildings is more morally suspect due to the private property element. Things found in a storm drain, however, are to me like things found on the street - if there's no reasonable hope of finding their owner, finders keepers. But use your judgment - if somewhere has the potential to accumulate some atmosphere and feeling due to the objects there, leave it be. How about a rule that for everything we take we have to leave something just as interesting? After all, we are part of the history of a place, too! ================================== Warning: Prosecutors will be Violated

Dr.Jav In Wonderland location: Wonderland Gender: Male \|	Re: Stealing or salvaging <Reply # 61 on 11/9/2003 12:56 AM >

	Try to get permission first, if nobody cares and precious items will be destroyed, take it. Please. You can present those things later to others. Feel guilty only if you know you're stealing (you know who you are, and what you're doing!) Be honest with yourself. Some items cannot be recovered ever again if you don't take it or set it aside on the land. Somebody will thank you later. But... Please share the item with others. Don't steal it just for yourself. This advice from several Forest Service people, and my own dad who worked on many abandoned lands. He used to have lots of articles to show, but he's given most of them back into society somewhere; other people, museums, or donations, where they'll be useful for other minds to enjoy. Lands are recycleable; antiques, articles, items, and tangible evidence such as written documents of a society are not. Remember politely, but firmly: One man's "junk" is another man's (or society's) "treasure". Please keep history alive as much as possible! What more can we give to our children than grand museums of our day? Thanks! Dr. Jav. [last edit 11/9/2003 1:09 AM by Dr.Jav In Wonderland - edited 1 times] There is no field of science opened to the exploration of the unknown in search of knowledge than urban observation. - John Quincy Javanator

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