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 Macsbug
  
Noble Donor
Location: St. Paul, MN
Gender: Male
Safety First!
 |  |  | Cave tragedy in St. Paul
< on 4/27/2004 11:36 PM >
|  | | | A cave which St. Paul attempted to close has become the site of a tragedy today.
The cave used to have many usable enterences, all of which have been closed except one. (Assumadly the city missed it). Two or three St. Paul explorers went there after the other enterneces have been sealed, they reported it to be very smoky, and have very bad air quality. They said there was a safety hazard for others who would go to this cave - the bad air cannot get out quickly now.
Today just an hour or so ago, a teenager (17) made it out of the cave, and went for help for his friends still trapped in the cave.
There are 3 deceased teenagers, and possibly a 4th. It is a bad day for cavers in St. Paul, and very sad to see what the St. Paul explorers saw as a big risk, in actuallity was.
"Believe those who are seeking the truth; doubt those who find it." |
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sympathy in chaos
Location: Chicago
Gender: Male
| | |  | Re: Cave tragedy in St. Paul
<Reply # 1 on 4/27/2004 11:37 PM >
| | | | That's horrible.
[last edit 4/27/2004 11:37 PM by sympathy in chaos - edited 1 times]
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Frost
Location: K.Dot
Gender: Male
No beer makes Frosty go..something something..(Taz: Crrazzy?)..Dont mind if I doo!
| | | Re: Cave tragedy in St. Paul
<Reply # 2 on 4/27/2004 11:46 PM >
| | | | That is very sad. My sympathy to their families.
It appears throwing caution to the wind was not the wisest of all decisions.
Why is marijuana not legal? Why is marijuana not legal? Its a natural plant that grows in the dirt. You know what's not natural, 80 year old dudes with hardons. Thats not natural, but we got pills for that. We're dedicating all our resources to keeping the old guys erect but we're puttin people in jail for smoking something that grows in the dirt. |
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Curious_George
 
Location: Cambridge
Gender: Male
Straight outta New Bedlam
| | Re: Cave tragedy in St. Paul
<Reply # 3 on 4/28/2004 12:01 AM >
| | | | I just saw it on WCCO and was going to start a thread on this.
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BigPoppaMikey
This user has been banned. See the banlist page for more details.
Location: Milpitas, California
Gender: Male
Don't follow me unless you want to...
| |  |  | | Re: Cave tragedy in St. Paul
<Reply # 4 on 4/28/2004 12:08 AM >
| | | | Anybody we know? God, I hope not.
Wishing I was Jack Dalton just to have all the cool leftovers... |
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Plytheman
Location: Lawrence, Massachusetts
Obey The Deer
| | | Re: Cave tragedy in St. Paul
<Reply # 5 on 4/28/2004 12:51 AM >
| | | | Wow, that sucks ALOT. My sympathies to the families as well.
Definately could make UE harder in the future...
I'm achin, I'm shakin, I'm breakin, Like Humans Do!!
-Byrne |
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tick
Location: Abingdon, VA
Gender: Male
| | | | Re: Cave tragedy in St. Paul
<Reply # 6 on 4/28/2004 12:55 AM >
|  | | | Wow that really, really sucks. Poor kids.
Was this cave better-ventilated before they started sealing entrances off? The smoke and bad air thing made it sound like there was a fire burning or something, that's why I ask.
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Panic!
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
Location: Australia
Big drain driving
| | | Re: Cave tragedy in St. Paul
<Reply # 7 on 4/28/2004 1:09 AM >
| | | | From the media reports things are sketchy, they mention carbon dioxide and carbon monoxide. Carbon monide could indicate a fire. Even if these are not people we know, it's a trajedy. It could be a big clamp down on UE in the twin citties too. I mean wasn't there some incident a while back with a guy plunging down an open manhole, and the more recent arrest of 6 "dressed in black" people?
Hmm, not a good thing.
I am hoping it's not regular UErs. They'd have access to info on the dangers of carbon monoxide and would recognise the dangers, at least I hope they would.
Sorry if i sound like an idiot in this posting. It's a bit hard to sort of emphasize with a situation as hard as this.
Live your life like it really makes a difference.
What have you done today to make you feel proud?
John Lennon was a wise man. All the world living together as one. |
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Slim Jim
Noble Donor
Location: St. Paul, MN
Gender: Male
Maze is 100% done now!!! Someday when it's -10 out and the generators won't start I might upload th
| | Re: Cave tragedy in St. Paul
<Reply # 9 on 4/28/2004 1:40 AM >
| | | | Posted by tick
Was this cave better-ventilated before they started sealing entrances off? The
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YES!! ABSOLUTELY. There used to be 3 entrances, all crawling height and reasonably sized. I'm sure that because there was an entrance at both of the ends of the (rather long) cave, there was a decent air stream going between them. Now, with only one entrance, the air is stagnant and the CO will stay around many times longer. To be made worse by the fact that the remaining entrance is at the far end of the cave, away from most of the (interesting) passages.
And to close the entrances WHILE there's smoke in the cave? These city officials must be real boneheads.
In retrospect, we should've alerted the authorities that the air was bad in there, but it's one of those things that you just don't foresee, I figured the air would clean out a lot sooner, and most of all, didn't want to get the one last remaining entrance to get closed.
I want to be different. But I want to be different just like everybody else, because if I really were different, everybody would think I was crazy and weird.
Iowa is Minnesota's bitch. There's an art to pooping. |
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Macsbug
Noble Donor
Location: St. Paul, MN
Gender: Male
Safety First!
| | | Re: Cave tragedy in St. Paul
<Reply # 10 on 4/28/2004 4:10 AM >
| | | | Yes the air was much better, and fires seemed like they were pretty common, it was a little smoky when I was there (I think) but definitly not to a hazerdous level.
Not regular UE'rs, doesnt sound like anybody we know (I dont think). Very bad job on the city's closing of the enterences. And like one of the arcticles says, it will be open again, it's just a matter of time.
"Believe those who are seeking the truth; doubt those who find it." |
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MacGyver
Location: St Paul, Minnesota
Gender: Male
"Someone go find me a paperclip, a D-cell battery, and a cheese grater"
| | Re: Cave tragedy in St. Paul
<Reply # 11 on 4/28/2004 4:28 AM >
| | | | I want to clarify that these people weren't anybody that we know (we're almost certain, but no names have been released yet...) and they were not so much explorers as they were probably local kids looking for a place to enjoy a smoke or drink a bit.
Apparently, someone had started a relatively large fire somewhere deep in the cave that had gotten a bit out of control. The city bulldozed dirt into the remaining entrances in hopes of keeping people out of the cave. Their idea was not brilliant to begin with, as it trapped all of the smoke and carbon monoxide from the still-burning fire inside of the cave, whereas it would have ventilated it's self surprisingly well if the entrances had not been sealed off. The city's grossest oversight was to leave one entrance open. I doubt it was intentional, but it allowed people to get into the cave, which was then hopelessly filled with smoke and CO.
If the city had either left the cave as it was or taken the time to properly seal all of the entrances, this tradgedy would have almost certainly been avoided.
I was in that very cave a little over a week ago just days after the fire was started and the city bulldozed most of the entrances. The air was very bad, and we stayed just long enough to make it in probably about as far as the ill-fated teens did today. By this point, we could tell the air was going from bad to deadly with each stride. We turned back and fled to the relative safety of fresh air, but I still felt dizzy and nauseous. The other two local explorers that were there did not get nerly as bad of symptoms as I did from the experience, but it was obvious that spending any amount of time in that cave was a very bad idea.
The air was unpleasant when we visited, but I can only imagine how much worse it was after another week of smoldering fire inside the sealed cave.
Like a fiend with his dope / a drunkard his wine / a man will have lust for the lure of the mine
"If you are not part of the solution, you are not dissolved in the solvent." |
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Heartless
Location: Dakota Territory
Gender: Male
nowhere is a state of mind
| | | | Re: Cave tragedy in St. Paul
<Reply # 12 on 4/28/2004 5:07 AM >
| | | | Posted by MacGyver
I want to clarify that these people weren't anybody that we know (we're almost certain, but no names have been released yet...) and they were not so much explorers as they were probably local kids looking for a place to enjoy a smoke or drink a bit.
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I sopke with someone who knew them, and yes, I'm almost positive that they were local partiers. Everyone else I spoke with either hadn't heard and planned to go there (there's a few similar caves in the area) within the week, or had heard and still planned to go within the week.
I really don't see the fascination with these man-made caves that everyone knows about and everyone and their mothers visit on a regular basis. I also had no idea that they were quite that popular. Aside from the historical interest, which most of these kids don't have, I don't understand...?
I also think that the city is going to catch some heat for their mistake on this one.
"I hope that I find you in heaven, because I'm so lost without you down here..."
Lost Highway Photography |
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The Hitman's Daughter
Account Closed
Location: ottawa, canada
Gender: Female
hot pavement.
| | | Re: Cave tragedy in St. Paul
<Reply # 13 on 4/28/2004 8:33 AM >
| | | | I just saw this in the news.
wow.
richellesart.com
From now on and until the end of time, "Hip To Be Square" will conjure images of bloody bodies being hacked apart with axes.
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BigPoppaMikey
This user has been banned. See the banlist page for more details.
Location: Milpitas, California
Gender: Male
Don't follow me unless you want to...
| | | | | Re: Cave tragedy in St. Paul
<Reply # 14 on 4/28/2004 2:28 PM >
| | | | Wednesday morning here, 0730, and it is all over the local and national news. Fucking ghouls. Anyhow, I pray for the families...
Wishing I was Jack Dalton just to have all the cool leftovers... |
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HairyTheTaco
Location: The Hammer, Ontario
Gender: Male
| | Re: Cave tragedy in St. Paul
<Reply # 15 on 4/28/2004 2:30 PM >
| | | | I havent seen any media reports up here in Canada, but just wondering -what are the local news saying? Are they saying the words "Urban Exploration" a lot?
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Asylunt
Location: MPLS
Gender: Male
The Friendly Beer!
| | | | Re: Cave tragedy in St. Paul
<Reply # 16 on 4/28/2004 2:49 PM >
| | | | Not really, a few newspaper articles mentioned it, but not necessarily in a negative way.
Asylunt
"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." Mark Twain |
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BigPoppaMikey
This user has been banned. See the banlist page for more details.
Location: Milpitas, California
Gender: Male
Don't follow me unless you want to...
| | | | | Re: Cave tragedy in St. Paul
<Reply # 17 on 4/28/2004 2:50 PM >
| | | | No, been hearing alot of stuff about local kid partying there. Thank god that UE has not been mentioned so far.
Wishing I was Jack Dalton just to have all the cool leftovers... |
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PAWolf
Not from Pennsylvania
Location: KCMO
Gender: Male
We haven't located us yet.
| | | | | Re: Cave tragedy in St. Paul
<Reply # 18 on 4/28/2004 2:52 PM >
| | | | Posted by HairyTheTaco
I havent seen any media reports up here in Canada, but just wondering -what are the local news saying? Are they saying the words "Urban Exploration" a lot?
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I watched on the local kansas city news at work today. Really crappy report, went something like this. "3 young explorers in St. Paul died after starting a fire in cave and being overcome with smoke and fumes." Initially when I heard that report I pretty much dismissed the kids as being dumbasses for starting a fire, especially in a cave. After reading what actually happened I really feel for the kids families, especially the kid that made it out.
Damn media would rather make up parts of a story than say they don't know.
Make Beer, Not War. |
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Mochi
Location: West Jordan, Utah
Gender: Male
Stare deep into a kitty's nose.
| | | Re: Cave tragedy in St. Paul
<Reply # 19 on 4/28/2004 4:16 PM >
| | | | May Saint Damasus bless their departed souls.
I hope this just goes to point out to all the readers, though (and regardless of what REALLY happened):
DON'T START FIRES IN CAVES!!!
Really, now. Come on.
Anyhoot, I really hope this doesn't blow out of proportion... I could easily. Let's hope not.
>_< Mochi, be cool about fire safety.
JESUS SAVES!!!
(And then he redeems his tickets for free prizes!) |
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