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UER Forum > Archived Rookie Forum > How do you deal with crack-heads? (Viewed 10181 times)
Garutachi 


Location: MA
Gender: Female




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How do you deal with crack-heads?
< on 12/15/2010 6:19 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
By our 4th UE trip we'd grown pretty tired of the 2 places we've found in our neck of the woods so we decided to go on a road trip and visit someplace new. We spent 3 days exploring 2 places in this new area and towards the end of the 3rd day we where feeling really confident that we probably wouldn't run into anyone due to the freezing temps and the fact that we just hadn't seen anyone around the places the whole time we where there. What happened on the last day was a valuable lesson for us all and I want to see if anyone has had any similar experiences with people that go to abandoned places to get high. Also, does anyone carry pepper spray or weapons with them and what do you do if you run into someone who might not be in their right mind?
So, my friend ventured up a stairway first and maybe a minute later she came running down and called out in a frantic, high-pitched, half-whisper, half-scream: " I smell something weird burning up here and there's voices...let's get OUT OF HERE!" We quickly left the area and moved to a different part of the same building to get our shit together. She then began to question wether she'd really heard or smelt anything. Blaming it on being tired, the wind, the mold....as she was going through her list of other possibilities while packing up her camera stuff, my fiance' and I where watching the area we'd just come from over her shoulder. That's when we saw a person stumble down the stairs run towards us and then slip on the ice and land on their ass. Then we RAN! We weren't really sure who we where running from or if they where even dangerous but it just seemed like the best thing to do. After we got back to the car, we all agreed that we where pretty pissed to leave with at least 2 hours left of good light. We considered going back and asking the crack-head if he didn't mind if we photographed around him..we decided that was a bad idea and started our long trek back home. We think it was crack she smelled because the night before we smelled the same thing coming from the hotel room next to us. The area we where in was pretty poor and depressing so I could see it being a haven for drug addicts. It was a sweet smell kind of like burning sugar. And I remembered someone telling me once that crack is "cooked" in sugar.
Lessons learned: We will not split up for any reason ever again even if it's just to go into the next room. And just because it's freezing doesn't mean people don't want to go to creepy places to get high. I suppose if you're high enough maybe you don't feel the cold. Maybe we're just being paranoid noobs but any advice on this subject would be greatly appreciated.

"The Earth is not my home, I'm just passing by." -Tom Waits
fiftyone_eggs 


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Re: How do you deal with crack-heads?
<Reply # 1 on 12/15/2010 7:24 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
i've run into crackheads before. they are generally harmless, but can be unpredictable. you never really know.

if you really feel threatened, snap a photo of the person with your cellphone and send it to somebody. explain to them that you just sent their photo to somebody so that if anything happens they will know who to look for. that should make a would-be perpetrator think twice.

but if everybody just stays out of everybody's way it likely won't get to that.

Yehoshua 


Location: Ontario
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Re: How do you deal with crack-heads?
<Reply # 2 on 12/15/2010 7:32 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
If I accidentally stumble upon someone I believe to be criminally minded and irrational...I don't think "I'm sending your photo to people who can give it to the police" is really the approach I'd take...

In general, keep out of their way, you're right to probably exit the building - but you needn't panic. My common sense would tell me that as long as you appear to not have any idea what's going on, you're probably better off...so less "I have a camera and photos of you" and more "I'm trying to take a fucking piss, why are you trying to see my fucking prick" followed by incoherent mumbling. Obviously this works better if you aren't dressed like a ninja with six camerabags and three tripods on your back...

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fiftyone_eggs 


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Re: How do you deal with crack-heads?
<Reply # 3 on 12/15/2010 7:47 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
yeah, if the situation is not already heated by the time you start snapping pics, it will be soon.

that approach is not intended for the moment you 'accidentally stumble upon someone you believe to be criminally minded and irrational'. that approach is for when the situation gets downright criminally minded and irrational. it's what you can do to diffuse a situation gone bad.

edit:
i usually have my leatherman handy, but i don't bring guns exploring. many times, explorers who get busted actually get charged with B&E. add a gun to that and you're looking at a class-2 felony (months/years in prison).
[last edit 12/15/2010 7:59 PM by fiftyone_eggs - edited 2 times]

TheWolfman269 


Location: Nashville, Tennessee
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Re: How do you deal with crack-heads?
<Reply # 4 on 12/15/2010 8:46 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Well, I can't speak for every state but I will speak for mine.

"According to Tennessee law, any person who unlawfully enters the property of another may be guilty of trespassing. The penalties for this offense vary depending on whether the trespass was civil or criminal. If the accused person uses force to enter the property and has knowledge that the owner has not consented to the entry, the trespass is criminal. If the property is entered without force the trespass is civil. Any person who commits a civil trespass may be sued for monetary damages, but they will not face criminal charges. Criminal trespassing, however, may result in criminal charges against the offender.

Criminal trespass is a Class C Misdemeanor and can be punished by a fine or a sentence of up to 30 days in jail. Tenn. Code Ann. 40-35-111 (2006). "

Force is defined quite liberally. For example it could mean trespassing on the property with a weapon, or using physical force to enter the property.

The sentence is discretionary by the judge and could depend on many factors, i.e. previous criminal history, where you committed the criminal trespass, the facts of the crime, etc.

Now, with that said, I personally carry my pistol with me when I go ANYWHERE. But I also have plenty of training, a state carry permit, and a badge.

In everyone's case though, there is nothing that says you can't defend yourself. A can of pepper spray is not going to get you charged with anything unless you shoot the cop with it. I personally recommend a product called "Freeze +P". It is what I carried as an officer and trust me, it will take the fight right out of someone. I've been sprayed with it multiple times and while you still want to fight, you can't actually see to do it. This stuff is mind numbing pain that will not stop. All you want to do is get away from it. If you get enough of it, you will throw up, pee your pants, and poop yourself. I've seen it happen. Plus the best thing about this stuff is the "+P" that is in the title. It has a UV paint in it that will not show up under white light but will under a black light. So if someone tries to assault you, you spray them and get away and call the cops, and the cops find someone 4 blocks away crying thier eyes out and trying to wash thier face in a sewer, it is hard for them to say "No. It wasn't me." when thier face is glowing bright colors. It is the best thing I know of to carry if deadly force is not something they will consider or it is not warranted in that situation. I would rather be tazered again than be sprayed with Freeze.

And here is where another fun rule comes into play. Defending yourself is not always the problem. It is "defending yourself for defending yourself". You always run a risk with an officer that he or she feels you should not have done what you did. Here is a phrase I want you to remember. "I used the minimum amount of force I deemed necessary to control the situation." There is NOTHING out there (a book, law, officer, or judge) that says what the minimum amount of force is for a given situation. This is true wether you sprayed someone, stabbed them with a ninja sword, or shot them 18 times in the face. There is nothing that says you can't do that if you feel that is what is necessary to protect yourself or others from bodily harm. And if it is something that you have to go to court on, this phrase may very well save you from serving jail time for something you did. Your lawyer will love you for it.

In addition to that, most cops have common sense. If you mace a homeless crackhead to keep him from raping you, most any cop is not going to arrest you for trespassing. Which thing seems more important? And what were you supposed to do? Stand there and let him hurt you? Come on. My wife is 5'2 and maybe 100 pounds soaking wet with rocks in her pockets. If she shoots someone who breaks in our apartment and has to go to court on it, they are going to look at her little bitty self and say, "Ma'am, your free to go."

I will say this too though. THE BEST THING YOU CAN DO IS JUST LEAVE!!! You did right in leaving the place. Always avoid confrontation if you can. But with someone who is high on whatever or just a squater in a building your in, there is no telling what they might do. Most of them have nothing to lose and I know alot of homeless folks I've come across will do stuff just to get thrown in jail for awhile. It gives them a warm bed. a warm meal, and a roof over thier head. So stick with what I have said here. I've given you a few options and will be more than happy to discuss any of them and more with anyone. But bottom line, use whatever you have at your disposal to leave the area. If you have to spray or hurt someone in order for you to be able to leave, then do it. What's the worst that can happen? A homeless crackhead calls the cop cuz some chick with a camera and a can of mace sprayed him? Yeah. Let's see how far that goes.

...And yeah, for now, that's all I got.

"I've got military training, a giant crowbar, and I've already been shot. What can really stop me?" - Myself
Rockle 


Location: Chicagoland
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Re: How do you deal with crack-heads?
<Reply # 5 on 12/15/2010 9:14 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by Garutachi
It was a sweet smell kind of like burning sugar. And I remembered someone telling me once that crack is "cooked" in sugar.


Crack does not smell sweet in any way, shape, or form; nor do I wish anyone to have to experience anything close to the making or smoking of crack.





I know nothing with any certainty, but the sight of stars makes me dream.
MonoxideChild 


Location: Rockford, IL
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Re: How do you deal with crack-heads?
<Reply # 6 on 12/15/2010 10:26 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
with it being cold. there is probably even more of a risk of running into homeless in buildings. they would much rather be out of the weather and wind in a safe building, then out in the cold.

ive ran into a few druggies. usually its a short conversation, and im on my way. if there pretty nice, some will even give you other places worth checking out.

~Quote By Thomas Edison~
I have far more respect for the person with a single idea who gets there than for the person with a thousand ideas who does nothing....
TheWolfman269 


Location: Nashville, Tennessee
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Re: How do you deal with crack-heads?
<Reply # 7 on 12/15/2010 10:36 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Here is a link to the Freeze +P site.

http://www.aerko.c...eze%20+P%202K3.htm

I love these quotes though...

EFFECTS: The person sprayed will quickly be incapacitated and for a period of approximately 20 minutes will be unable to take concerted action. His skin will burn; his eyelids will involuntarily close; he will have difficulty breathing. His mucus membranes will secrete freely. Most individuals will experience a feeling of panic.

They contain CS called by U.S. Army scientists "Super Tear Gas" and OC recognized by the Federal Agents an effective inflammatory agent making FREEZE +P the strongest, most effective agents available to non military users.


And I mean come on! Who doesn't want to see someone get sprayed with "Super Tear Gas"? lol.

"I've got military training, a giant crowbar, and I've already been shot. What can really stop me?" - Myself
rivermyst 


Location: Hamilton, ON
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Re: How do you deal with crack-heads?
<Reply # 8 on 12/15/2010 11:16 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by Garutachi
It was a sweet smell kind of like burning sugar. And I remembered someone telling me once that crack is "cooked" in sugar.

Cocaine + Water = Crack. No sugar involved. Dunno what you smelled, but it was probably harmless. Marshmallows even.

Posted by TheWolfman269
Well, I can't speak for every state but I will speak for mine.

"According to Tennessee law, ... Criminal trespass is a Class C Misdemeanor ... etc. "

Force is defined quite liberally. For example it could mean trespassing on the property with a weapon, or using physical force to enter the property.

Don't understand the point you're trying to make by posting this. Both you and the crackhead are there illegally and that's all there is to it. Do you really think that if you're caught in the building at the same time as a crackhead that the cops will really care if you entered 10 minutes after he forced his way in?

Now, with that said, I personally carry my pistol with me when I go ANYWHERE. But I also have plenty of training, a state carry permit, and a badge.

Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. I don't know what the homeless situation is in your area, but if it's bad enough to warrant you being paranoid enough to carry a firearm while trespassing, perhaps it's better to just stick to exploring in the summer.

To see some really bad cliché photos, go to http://flickr.com/mutagen
Garutachi 


Location: MA
Gender: Female




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Re: How do you deal with crack-heads?
<Reply # 9 on 12/15/2010 11:19 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Thank you guys. That's a lot of useful info. I ordered some pepper spray (even comes in cute little girly pinky keychains). I'm definitely going to look into getting some of the Freeze +P too and research the laws in my state. I never really thought about it but I guess it would be good to know what kind of punishment I could be facing for spraying a hostile bum with pepper spray or whatever. Thanks again for the advice.

"The Earth is not my home, I'm just passing by." -Tom Waits
TheWolfman269 


Location: Nashville, Tennessee
Gender: Male


If it looks like a wolf, acts like a wolf, and howls like a wolf, it's probably an asshole.

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Re: How do you deal with crack-heads?
<Reply # 10 on 12/15/2010 11:34 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by rivermyst
Don't understand the point you're trying to make by posting this. Both you and the crackhead are there illegally and that's all there is to it. Do you really think that if you're caught in the building at the same time as a crackhead that the cops will really care if you entered 10 minutes after he forced his way in?


Yeah, I think you missed the point. I'm not saying call the cops on the tresspassing crackhead while you are tresspassing yourself. I'm saying to call them if this person, whomever they may be, attempts to harm you or someone else in some way. If they try and attack you, approach you after you have told them to stop, or so on. Do I think a cop is going to be more concerned with the crackhead that tried to attack someone than the girl with the camera that tresspassed? Yes. I do think that. And I know when I was working the road, I would have been more concerned with the higher threat to the community.


Posted by rivermyst
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. I don't know what the homeless situation is in your area, but if it's bad enough to warrant you being paranoid enough to carry a firearm while trespassing, perhaps it's better to just stick to exploring in the summer.


I carry one for my own reasons. After being shot, it tends to make you a bit more paranoid about the everyday situations you find yourself in. I'm seen too much bad to pretend it doesn't exist. So I carry one in the event that something happens when I have the ability to defend myself or someone around me. It is a last resort but it is an option I prefer to have rather than nothing. I've already killed 137 people between two tours in Iraq. I really don't feel any need to add to that. But I also don't have a problem adding to it if I have to. I have the training as a soldier and as a law enforcement officer to make sure that I make a clear minded decision and that there is no other option left open to me if and when it comes to that. Bearing that in mind, I am a fan of other people carrying a firearm as well. It has the potential to end a violent situation before a police officer can arrive. We can't be everywhere at once. But on the same note, I don't want to turn this thread into a discussion of ethics and on the use and carry of firearms. I fully agree that not everyone needs one or that where they live it may not be logical to carry one. But I am merely stating that I do and suggest it to people as an option. Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.


"I've got military training, a giant crowbar, and I've already been shot. What can really stop me?" - Myself
Garutachi 


Location: MA
Gender: Female




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Re: How do you deal with crack-heads?
<Reply # 11 on 12/15/2010 11:37 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by rivermyst

Cocaine + Water = Crack. No sugar involved. Dunno what you smelled, but it was probably harmless. Marshmallows even.



Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. I don't know what the homeless situation is in your area, but if it's bad enough to warrant you being paranoid enough to carry a firearm while trespassing, perhaps it's better to just stick to exploring in the summer.


Ok..I admit I'm no expert on drugs. However, I find it hard to believe that a deranged looking man would go sit in a crumbling building in 20 degree temps just to build himself a little campfire and roast some marshmallows and then end up falling on his ass while chasing 3 people carrying camera equipment out of the crumbling building. Is there another drug it could of been? Meth or something? Like I said, we smelled the same smell the night before. Otherwise I could maybe dismiss it as food being cooked or or something like that. (I know what weed smells like and it wasn't weed.) Also, I have no intention of carrying a gun, I was just curious if others did...apparently some do.



"The Earth is not my home, I'm just passing by." -Tom Waits
TheWolfman269 


Location: Nashville, Tennessee
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Re: How do you deal with crack-heads?
<Reply # 12 on 12/15/2010 11:37 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by Garutachi
I ordered some pepper spray (even comes in cute little girly pinky keychains). I'm definitely going to look into getting some of the Freeze +P too and research the laws in my state. I never really thought about it but I guess it would be good to know what kind of punishment I could be facing for spraying a hostile bum with pepper spray or whatever. Thanks again for the advice.


I'm always happy when someone takes a step in protecting themselves. I don't like the idea of anyone I know becoming a statistic in some cities crime rate. If you would though, shoot me a PM with the link to whatever it is you bought. Alot of the "pepper sprays" and "mace" that are out aren't actually very effective. I'll let you know if it's something I would trust or not. And as I said earlier, if you face any charge for shooting a hostile ANYONE in the face with mace, you let me know and I'll be one of the first people your attorney can call onto the witness stand. ;)

"I've got military training, a giant crowbar, and I've already been shot. What can really stop me?" - Myself
Garutachi 


Location: MA
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Re: How do you deal with crack-heads?
<Reply # 13 on 12/15/2010 11:44 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Ok, Thanks Wolfman. And also, thank you so much for serving our country. My little bro was in the Army and he went to Iraq 3 times. He's home now, and he also carries a gun. I don't blame him or have anything against people that want to carry firearms as long as they're trained to use them.

"The Earth is not my home, I'm just passing by." -Tom Waits
TheWolfman269 


Location: Nashville, Tennessee
Gender: Male


If it looks like a wolf, acts like a wolf, and howls like a wolf, it's probably an asshole.

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Re: How do you deal with crack-heads?
<Reply # 14 on 12/15/2010 11:48 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Here is the exact quote I got from a friend working counter-drug right now. I wanted to make sure I got the information right...

"Cocaine is a complex hydrocarbon. It would smell like burned sugar, like peanut brittle that has been overcooked but without the peanut smell. Crack cocaine has a very unique smell. It is a combination of burnt plastic, ink and a sugary smell. It does not smell like pot or cigarette smoke so you can rule those out."

"I've got military training, a giant crowbar, and I've already been shot. What can really stop me?" - Myself
rivermyst 


Location: Hamilton, ON
Gender: Male




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Re: How do you deal with crack-heads?
<Reply # 15 on 12/15/2010 11:50 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by TheWolfman269
Yeah, I think you missed the point. I'm not saying call the cops on the tresspassing crackhead while you are tresspassing yourself. I'm saying to call them if this person, whomever they may be, attempts to harm you or someone else in some way. If they try and attack you, approach you after you have told them to stop, or so on. Do I think a cop is going to be more concerned with the crackhead that tried to attack someone than the girl with the camera that tresspassed? Yes. I do think that. And I know when I was working the road, I would have been more concerned with the higher threat to the community.

I apologize, I misunderstood your intentions. I'd thought you meant in the event of both the crackheads' and your apprehension at the hands of law enforcement. I certainly agree if this is the case with someone who is overly violent- But if they're just a crackhead, no matter how irate they are, as long as they're not hurting anyone, they have just as much right to be there as you. Odds are they've got enough problems to worry about as it is.

I carry one for my own reasons. After being shot, it tends to make you a bit more paranoid about the everyday situations you find yourself in.
Completely understandable.

... I have the training as a soldier and as a law enforcement officer to make sure that I make a clear minded decision and that there is no other option left open to me if and when it comes to that. Bearing that in mind, I am a fan of other people carrying a firearm as well. It has the potential to end a violent situation before a police officer can arrive.

Most people aren't lucky enough to have this kind of training. And while it may certainly be understandable for an experienced person such as yourself to carry a firearm, for the average Joe it certainly can't look good. But maybe that's just me. I'm more used to how things function in Canada, so I don't know if carrying a gun around while trespassing would have the same stigma down there.

To see some really bad cliché photos, go to http://flickr.com/mutagen
TheWolfman269 


Location: Nashville, Tennessee
Gender: Male


If it looks like a wolf, acts like a wolf, and howls like a wolf, it's probably an asshole.

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Re: How do you deal with crack-heads?
<Reply # 16 on 12/15/2010 11:51 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by Garutachi
Ok, Thanks Wolfman. And also, thank you so much for serving our country. My little bro was in the Army and he went to Iraq 3 times. He's home now, and he also carries a gun. I don't blame him or have anything against people that want to carry firearms as long as they're trained to use them.


Your very welcome, Darlin. And thank your brother for me next time you talk to him. And I fully agree, not everyone needs one or should carry one. I personally would like to see more training involved before civilians get a carry permit. My own wife accidentally fired off hers in the house this past weekend. Trying to clear it while still half asleep. Thought I trained that woman better. ::grumbles::

"I've got military training, a giant crowbar, and I've already been shot. What can really stop me?" - Myself
rob.i.am 


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Re: How do you deal with crack-heads?
<Reply # 17 on 12/15/2010 11:56 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by TheWolfman269


I've already killed 137 people between two tours in Iraq.



Good to know.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/rob666/
TheWolfman269 


Location: Nashville, Tennessee
Gender: Male


If it looks like a wolf, acts like a wolf, and howls like a wolf, it's probably an asshole.

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Re: How do you deal with crack-heads?
<Reply # 18 on 12/16/2010 12:06 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
::shrugs:: It's just part of the job. It's a number. Only reason I know it is because I had to write it up in statements. It's not something i'm proud of or ashamed of. I was a gunner my first tour. Pretty much your only job is kill bad guys. So that's what i did. Nothing to be concerned about. My wife says "Your just a big teddy bear anyway. A teddy bear that will shoot someone in the face and not lose any sleep, but not without a good reason." =)

"I've got military training, a giant crowbar, and I've already been shot. What can really stop me?" - Myself
Intrinsic 


Location: Collingwood
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Re: How do you deal with crack-heads?
<Reply # 19 on 12/16/2010 12:11 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Are you the long lost brother of rz350?

(Edit: I didn't mind rz350 but it's like deja-vu all over again)
[last edit 12/16/2010 12:24 AM by Intrinsic - edited 1 times]

UER Forum > Archived Rookie Forum > How do you deal with crack-heads? (Viewed 10181 times)
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