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 Sewer Urchin
    
Very poisonous, don't touch me.
 |  | "expired" no tresspassing signs?
< on 4/21/2010 11:26 AM >
|  | | | Has anybody been confronted and defended themselves saying "I thought the no trespassing signs were just from when this was an active site, I don't think the owner would mind me being here now that it's abandoned?" Is this a reasonable defense?
~Tom-Bob Boxtop |
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makman
 
Location: Rochester, NY
Gender: Male
I live alone with a criminal
| | Re: "expired" no tresspassing signs?
<Reply # 1 on 4/21/2010 11:36 AM >
| | | | I'm just about certain that that wouldn't fly legally, but you might be able to argue that to whoever first catches you when trying to convince them to let you go.
Be careful, not safe.
"Urbex- so much fun that it should be illegal." |
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Rinzler
 
Location: New Jersey
Nomad
| |  | Re: "expired" no tresspassing signs?
<Reply # 2 on 4/21/2010 12:34 PM >
| | | | Posted by BurghEx
Has anybody been confronted and defended themselves saying "I thought the no trespassing signs were just from when this was an active site, I don't think the owner would mind me being here now that it's abandoned?" Is this a reasonable defense?
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As long as the signs are up it doesnt matter if its from when it was active or not. I wish that would fly or i'd use that on every hospital i go in.
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consecrated
 
Location: Connecticut
Gender: Male
Æthereal
| |  | Re: "expired" no tresspassing signs?
<Reply # 3 on 4/21/2010 12:41 PM >
| | | | Posted by makman
I'm just about certain that that wouldn't fly legally, but you might be able to argue that to whoever first catches you when trying to convince them to let you go.
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I agree with makman.
If that were to work at all, it would only work for a softhearted civilian, and likely only once. A lawman would certainly know better. Remember, just because a building is no longer active, doesn't mean it is abandoned. It just means it is vacant.
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/-/ooligan
Location: Las Vegas area
Gender: Male
When in danger, when in doubt, RUN IN CIRCLES, SCREAM AND SHOUT!
| | Re: "expired" no tresspassing signs?
<Reply # 4 on 4/22/2010 5:07 AM >
| | | | Posted by BurghEx
Has anybody been confronted and defended themselves saying "I thought the no trespassing signs were just from when this was an active site, I don't think the owner would mind me being here now that it's abandoned?" Is this a reasonable defense?
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If I see you leaving your home carrying a suitcase, can I enter the home 15 minutes later, claiming that I didn't think anyone would mind, because I thought you just abandoned the place?
Be reasonable! Think how you'd feel if someone pulled that sort of BS on you.
There are no stupid questions, just stupid people. |
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bfinan0
Location: Rochester, NY
Gender: Male
| | | Re: "expired" no tresspassing signs?
<Reply # 5 on 4/22/2010 5:21 AM >
| | | | Posted by BurghEx
Has anybody been confronted and defended themselves saying "I thought the no trespassing signs were just from when this was an active site, I don't think the owner would mind me being here now that it's abandoned?" Is this a reasonable defense?
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I believe this does have some validity in NY state, but you would need to research it more: what I learned is that the POSTED signs at the edge of private (rural) property must have at least the name and address of the property owner to be valid -- if the property has changed hands since it was active, and the same signs are still intact, they would no longer be legally binding. The same is true of blank POSTED signs (but not, as far as I know, the standard NO TRESPASSING on a building or fence itself, as I have never seen one of those with owner noted)
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Sewer Urchin
Very poisonous, don't touch me.
| | Re: "expired" no tresspassing signs?
<Reply # 6 on 4/22/2010 12:56 PM >
| | | | Posted by /-/ooligan
If I see you leaving your home carrying a suitcase, can I enter the home 15 minutes later, claiming that I didn't think anyone would mind, because I thought you just abandoned the place?
Be reasonable! Think how you'd feel if someone pulled that sort of BS on you.
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I'm not trying to be outrageous, I'm just saying that the 60 year old, half rusted, hand-painted no trespassing signs just don't seem as legally binding as the fresh ones that cite where the law is recorded, and have the current property owner's name. Especially in Pennsylvania where the trespasser's interpretation seems to be so important in determining guilt.
~Tom-Bob Boxtop |
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Steed
 
Location: Edmonton/Seoul
Gender: Male
Your Friendly Neighbourhood Race Traitor
| | | Re: "expired" no tresspassing signs?
<Reply # 7 on 4/22/2010 1:05 PM >
| | | | Good question.
There is of course a big gulf between the actual law and what is enforced. I think it could probably work a lot of the time.
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Liska
Location: Western Massachusetts
Gender: Female
| | Re: "expired" no tresspassing signs?
<Reply # 8 on 4/22/2010 1:21 PM >
| | | | A no trespassing sign is a no trespassing sign. We explorers of all people should know better than that IMHO.
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yokes
Location: Toronto
Gender: Male
I aim to misbehave
| | | | Re: "expired" no tresspassing signs?
<Reply # 9 on 4/22/2010 1:29 PM >
| | | | I think the question could be rephrased as...
Can a no trespassing sign put in place by someone who no longer owns the property be enforced by those who do now own the property?
"Great architecture has only two natural enemies: water and stupid men." - Richard Nickel |
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Steed
Location: Edmonton/Seoul
Gender: Male
Your Friendly Neighbourhood Race Traitor
| | | Re: "expired" no tresspassing signs?
<Reply # 10 on 4/22/2010 2:10 PM >
| | | | Posted by Liska
A no trespassing sign is a no trespassing sign.
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...Is a welcome mat.
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Liska
Location: Western Massachusetts
Gender: Female
| | Re: "expired" no tresspassing signs?
<Reply # 11 on 4/22/2010 2:14 PM >
| | | | Posted by Steed
...Is a welcome mat.
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Agreed, for US! But when it comes to law enforcement, it looks like a private property no trespassing sign to them 
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Sigfather
Location: Groton, Connecticut, United States
Gender: Male
| | | Re: "expired" no tresspassing signs?
<Reply # 12 on 4/22/2010 3:51 PM >
| | | | I think it really depends on the state....
Here in CT, criminal trespass (according to the Connecticut General Statutes) can be defended in court if a) the property is abandoned (there IS, however, a legal distinction between abandoned and vacant), b) the trespasser has reasonable expectation that owner would allow them access if he/she was present, or c) the structure is located on public land.
"Thrice happy is the nation that has a glorious history. Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat." - Theodore Roosevelt |
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rainman8889
Location: H.T.S.F.C. Time to gain and a time to lose.
Bye for now.
| | Re: "expired" no tresspassing signs?
<Reply # 13 on 5/2/2010 2:28 PM >
| | | | Posted by yokes
I think the question could be rephrased as...
Can a no trespassing sign put in place by someone who no longer owns the property be enforced by those who do now own the property?
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Most likely "Yes". If the new owners don't care about people trespassing on the property, they can always take down the signs. And how are we to know (unless the title is searched), if the property has changed hands?
[last edit 5/2/2010 2:33 PM by rainman8889 - edited 1 times]
Gone for a while. Be back when I'm back. |
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\/adder
Location: DunkarooLand
Gender: Male
I'm the worst of the best but I'm in this race.
| | | Re: "expired" no tresspassing signs?
<Reply # 14 on 5/2/2010 2:45 PM >
| | | | I've always wondered, not really cared, but wondered
a. what if someone where to physically remove the sign on Tuesday and when you come back on Sunday morning it's still gone and then you were caught. I wonder if "well I didn't see any signs" would fly?
b. What about lazy property owners who place signs around three sides of their property and you enter from the fourth side, you know how many times I've been walking through the woods and ended up walking past "No Trespassing" signs facing the opposite way, towards the land I just crossed through? I went back and tried to find the signs, but there were no signs between a stretch of state forest and private property but were between another stretch of state property and state forest.
That I think would fly.
c. what if an abandoned property was marked off no trespassing from the road with a fence and signage but same as scenario b. you could walk around the back, no signs, no fence ...
Harder to argue, but to me it implies that the property owner cares about liability but doesn't really give a shit about people entering his property, otherwise he'd put up an extra 50' of fence and 5 more signs.
"No risk, no reward, no fun."
"Go all the way or walk away"
escensi omnis... |
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rainman8889
Location: H.T.S.F.C. Time to gain and a time to lose.
Bye for now.
| | Re: "expired" no tresspassing signs?
<Reply # 15 on 5/4/2010 1:10 AM >
| | | | Good question Vadder.
Most likely if you're caught and the lack of signage on the side you entered from is pointed out, you'll just be asked to leave. If you refuse to leave or come back, then you will get charged.
If the owner sees this as a wake up call, s/he will install the extra signage and/or extra fence.
In terms of signs being removed, pretty much the same above applies unless you're caught taking down the sign. Then, you're screwed.
Gone for a while. Be back when I'm back. |
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JaneDoe
Location: Manhattan
Gender: Female
| | Re: "expired" no tresspassing signs?
<Reply # 16 on 6/19/2010 2:36 PM >
| | | | Posted by BurghEx
Has anybody been confronted and defended themselves saying "I thought the no trespassing signs were just from when this was an active site, I don't think the owner would mind me being here now that it's abandoned?" Is this a reasonable defense?
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That's a pretty good excuse I think. I never thought of that one, playing stupid seems to work pretty well sometimes.
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bfinan0
Location: Rochester, NY
Gender: Male
| | | Re: "expired" no tresspassing signs?
<Reply # 17 on 6/19/2010 2:39 PM >
| | | | Posted by rainman8889
Most likely "Yes". If the new owners don't care about people trespassing on the property, they can always take down the signs. And how are we to know (unless the title is searched), if the property has changed hands?
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I always search the title; I will usually only explore something if it is condemned and owned by the city, or is 30+ years behind on taxes. If it is owned by someone local or has had any recent tax payment, sale, or whatnot I will stay clear of it as it is probably secured anyway.
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tribeachpunk
Location: Halifax, NS
Gender: Male
| | | Re: "expired" no tresspassing signs?
<Reply # 18 on 6/19/2010 3:00 PM >
| | | | If one entry has a sign and another doesn't, I'll go in the way without the sign.
As far as I'm concerned, any signage obscured at all by growth don't count... And if you have a sign on a gate but leave the gate open, that doesn't count either.
Halifax UrbEx (Blog) ||| Atlantic Canada Urban Exploration Facebook Group |
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