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 -insertnamehere-
 
Location: CO
Gender: Male
"...We're taking photos" ... "PHOTAHOES?!?!?! ?!"
 |  | Fall Protection
< on 2/18/2010 11:32 PM >
|  | | | I've been eyeing the local watertower recently, but when I made my first scouting run, it turns out that the only way up was a single uncaged ladder up one piling.
here is said watertower:
I don't think I have the balls to do that free climbing, so what do people usually use as fall protection on ladders like these?
(ie. harness, carbineer, rope, ect.)
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Rinzler
   
Location: New Jersey
Nomad
| |  | Re: Fall Protection
<Reply # 1 on 2/18/2010 11:37 PM >
|  | | | I'd help you but i usually free climb everything. But if i think its that dangerous i just dont do it all together. But im sure there are people here that can help. Theres a rappelling thread on here somewhere. Find it and msg people from that. Im sure they can help you.
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AnAppleSnail
Location: Charlotte, NC
Gender: Male
ALL the flashlights!
| | |  | Re: Fall Protection
<Reply # 2 on 2/18/2010 11:41 PM >
|  | | | Ferrous testicles are magnetic. Look closely at the ladder, but you'll likely have to clip to rungs. Get 2 big 'biners, 'scaffolding carabiner' maybe, and short ropes. Clip to every other rung and you are as secure as the rungs. Use stretchy rope and you're less apt to snap rungs.
Note I free climb.
Edit2: Spelling on a phone is hard.
[last edit 2/19/2010 1:15 AM by AnAppleSnail - edited 2 times]
Achievement Unlocked
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steponmebbbboom
*NSFW*
| | Re: Fall Protection
<Reply # 3 on 2/19/2010 1:01 AM >
| | | | five-point harness with two lanyards, clip rung to rung. it's all you need. you can get a harness with two lanyards for about $120 at any industrial safety or supply store. the lanyard clips-in solid and has a shock absorber that expands as you fall so you dont get jerked when you reach the end of the rope. once you get used to the clips being in your hands as you climb you'll almost forget youre wearing it.
Mentos... The Freshmaker |
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\/adder
Location: DunkarooLand
Gender: Male
I'm the worst of the best but I'm in this race.
| | | Re: Fall Protection
<Reply # 4 on 2/19/2010 1:29 AM >
| | | | I only use active fall protection on solo cell tower climbs ... anything else slows down the group / for the most part more trouble than its worth.
I have however used srt climbing gear to get up and down things like water tanks where the ladder is too far from the ground to reach.
You can check out my old tower setup (w/ pics) here:
http://www.uer.ca/...rrpage=1&pp#post18
I've added a DBI\SALA Lad-Saf Cable Grab ($400MSRP, ebay $71) to my tower setup.
The aforementioned srt setup:
Petzl Croll, Petzl Ascension, Petzl Footape/Torse, Petzl Verso, Mammut Element Figure 8 and Black Diamond Vario Speed Harness (yeah yeah should be using a caving harness but w/e) I have the accompanying BD Vario Chest harness but it's pretty much useless.
"No risk, no reward, no fun."
"Go all the way or walk away"
escensi omnis... |
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steponmebbbboom
*NSFW*
| | Re: Fall Protection
<Reply # 5 on 2/19/2010 2:52 AM >
| | | | what do you prefer about your homebrew lanyard over the prepackaged industry lanyards with shock absorption?
Mentos... The Freshmaker |
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leatherman
Location: Texas
Gender: Male
| | Re: Fall Protection
<Reply # 6 on 2/19/2010 2:56 AM >
| | | | the ground will usually stop you if you fall too far.
I free climbed one once in scouts....that was intense.
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MindHacker
Location: Suburbs of DC
Gender: Male
If you spot a terrorist arrow, pin it to the wall with your shoulder.
| | Re: Fall Protection
<Reply # 7 on 2/19/2010 4:16 AM >
| | | | On a normal ladder - free climb. Hands on the rails, not on the rungs. That way you never really let go. I'll even free-climb the cages outside the ladders if I have to...
That said if you do want fall protection, there are great scaffolding biners that will make it much easier, and will also grab railings and other assorted gear. The cheapest I found was gearx, which has http://gearx.com/o...arabiner-blem.html for 20$ a pop. I have one (because I'm horribly unsafe), my friend has a pair, and with a bit of webbing/rope and a harness you've got yourself as much safety as you could possibly want.
The only drawback is that they are a bit heavy, especially compared to the lightweight climbing biners normally found on quickdraws.
"That's just my opinion. I would, however, advocate for explosive breaching, since speed and looking cool are both concerns in my job."-Wilkinshire |
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steponmebbbboom
*NSFW*
| | Re: Fall Protection
<Reply # 8 on 2/19/2010 4:23 AM >
| | | | i dont get it with biners, the clips on commercial lanyards require nothing more than a squeeze to open them and they snap shut and lock automatically. screw-latch? i dont have time for that shit!
[last edit 2/19/2010 4:25 AM by steponmebbbboom - edited 1 times]
Mentos... The Freshmaker |
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\/adder
Location: DunkarooLand
Gender: Male
I'm the worst of the best but I'm in this race.
| | | Re: Fall Protection
<Reply # 9 on 2/19/2010 4:39 AM >
| | | | Posted by steponmebbbboom
i dont get it with biners, the clips on commercial lanyards require nothing more than a squeeze to open them and they snap shut and lock automatically. screw-latch? i dont have time for that shit!
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Posted by steponmebbbboom
what do you prefer about your homebrew lanyard over the prepackaged industry lanyards with shock absorption?
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Cost, weight, multiple uses rope offers over specialized lanyard.
They don't stay in safety lanyard form. Currently I am using rope to attach my ascension to me in my srt rig in place of a spelegyca. I'm gonna buy some lanyards for that purpose the next time I pass by an EMS.
"No risk, no reward, no fun."
"Go all the way or walk away"
escensi omnis... |
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MindHacker
Location: Suburbs of DC
Gender: Male
If you spot a terrorist arrow, pin it to the wall with your shoulder.
| | Re: Fall Protection
<Reply # 10 on 2/20/2010 7:47 AM >
| | | | Posted by steponmebbbboom
i dont get it with biners, the clips on commercial lanyards require nothing more than a squeeze to open them and they snap shut and lock automatically. screw-latch? i dont have time for that shit!
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F*ck mate, I never said to actually screw 'em down. That's just a bonus feature for if you want/choose to use it.
"That's just my opinion. I would, however, advocate for explosive breaching, since speed and looking cool are both concerns in my job."-Wilkinshire |
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TopLof
Location: Pennsylvania
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Fall Protection
<Reply # 11 on 2/20/2010 9:20 AM >
| | | | I'm eying up a similar project, and I also have similar fears. you don't need a bulky complete harness (although if you want one, check out dennington safety systems). without knowing the condition of the metal, its possible that by the time you fall the seven feet for your lanyard to snag you, and then the five feet for your fall arrest to deploy, you're going to be moving fast enough to snap off any rusted out ladder parts you're clipped into. the scaff beaners are a nice touch, and probably what I'll do myself. past that, I was going to use my repelling harness, and two 22" nylon slings to walk my way up step by step. it would certainly hurt if I fell, but I'd only fall a foot or two. I'm also hoping to take up a good rope and then repel off the tower, so this whole plan kinda works towards my eventual goal.
I do want to state for the record that it's only an idea. I haven't done this successfully, and in all likelihood, I probably don't know what I'm doing.
"It was a great mistake, my being born a man, I would have been much more successful as a sea gull or a fish. As it is, I will always be a stranger, who never feels at home, who does not really want and is not really wanted, who can never belong, who must always be a little in love with death!"
~Eugene O'Neill |
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\/adder
Location: DunkarooLand
Gender: Male
I'm the worst of the best but I'm in this race.
| | | Re: Fall Protection
<Reply # 12 on 2/20/2010 1:59 PM >
| | | | Posted by TopLof
its possible that by the time you fall the seven feet for your lanyard to snag you, and then the five feet for your fall arrest to deploy, you're going to be moving fast enough to snap off any rusted out ladder parts you're clipped into.
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Arms length of doubled up static line FTW!
Autolocking carabiner saves on time and safety.
[last edit 2/20/2010 2:01 PM by \/adder - edited 1 times]
"No risk, no reward, no fun."
"Go all the way or walk away"
escensi omnis... |
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steponmebbbboom
*NSFW*
| | Re: Fall Protection
<Reply # 13 on 2/22/2010 1:58 AM >
| | | | Posted by TopLof
I'm eying up a similar project, and I also have similar fears. you don't need a bulky complete harness (although if you want one, check out dennington safety systems). without knowing the condition of the metal, its possible that by the time you fall the seven feet for your lanyard to snag you, and then the five feet for your fall arrest to deploy, you're going to be moving fast enough to snap off any rusted out ladder parts you're clipped into.
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actually in addition to minimising injury to yourself, the fall arrest lanyard minimises shock loading of the tie-off point
Mentos... The Freshmaker |
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\/adder
Location: DunkarooLand
Gender: Male
I'm the worst of the best but I'm in this race.
| | | Re: Fall Protection
<Reply # 14 on 2/22/2010 2:02 AM >
| | | | But if you don't fall more than an arms length away you won't fall anywhere you can't pull yourself back up from.
A lot of industry specific fall protection is made to save your life, but you may still need rescue from other climbers on your team.
"No risk, no reward, no fun."
"Go all the way or walk away"
escensi omnis... |
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steponmebbbboom
*NSFW*
| | Re: Fall Protection
<Reply # 15 on 2/22/2010 10:50 PM >
| | | | Posted by TheVicariousVadder
But if you don't fall more than an arms length away you won't fall anywhere you can't pull yourself back up from.
A lot of industry specific fall protection is made to save your life, but you may still need rescue from other climbers on your team.
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agreed... i have hung from a lanyard before during fall arrest training and it is very difficult to climb back up after falling from a tie-off point. but it's plug and play. there's no knots to tie, and looking at your own picture it looks to me that the biner could conceivably fall out of the lanyard loop if it's dark and you don't have it oriented correctly. don't take it personally, just food for thought. youre two hundred feet up a stack and your biner falls to the ground--what then? yipes...
ive also walked the plank on a tower crane before with two lanyards, and the spring-latch clips fit right in your hands; theyre sewn into the webbing, it's very reassuring.
Mentos... The Freshmaker |
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\/adder
Location: DunkarooLand
Gender: Male
I'm the worst of the best but I'm in this race.
| | | Re: Fall Protection
<Reply # 16 on 2/23/2010 12:07 AM >
| | | | Posted by steponmebbbboom
don't take it personally, just food for thought. youre two hundred feet up a stack and your biner falls to the ground--what then?
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Climb back down [carefully] without it?
I carry 6 'biners (3 autolock / 3 screwgate) with me ... as long as I have one I can retie the rope directly into my harness.
I've gotten into more than one bad situation involving fall protection (tangled rope and awkward angles) which is why I bought a cable grab to avoid that whole situation together; granted I wasn't climbing a traditional ladder, but a bolt rung tower and the rope got tangled in the rungs and I ended up un-clipping and stuffing the rope in my pocket and climbing down without it. There are some situations where having fall protection is more dangerous than not.
It's mostly comfort zone, when climbing most ladders, if you fall directly backward at the wrong time you can die, but if you slip and fall straight down you may fall a short distance but you should be able to catch yourself. In the cases of certain towers, landings are more iffy than the ladders. Landings scare me much more, especially when they shift under your weight. I am 100% comfortable on a solid ladder, no matter the height but even the slightest shift of steel when my feet are firmly placed on a landing still scares the crap out of me.
I'm not advocating for the use or non-use of fall protection; there are situations when I've certainly been glad to have it, situations I wish I had it and situations the use of improper\inadequate fall protection has been more dangerous than not using it.
"No risk, no reward, no fun."
"Go all the way or walk away"
escensi omnis... |
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DJ Craig
   
Moderator
Location: Johnson City, TN
Gender: Male
Break the Silence
| | | | Re: Fall Protection
<Reply # 17 on 2/23/2010 7:09 PM >
| | | | Posted by steponmebbbboom
you can get a harness with two lanyards for about $120 at any industrial safety or supply store.
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Rock climbing equipment works well too. It's more compact and light-weight than industrial stuff. If you hope to ever do rappelling and ascending and stuff like that, then go with rock climbing equipment.
EDIT: But really, for water towers...just free climb it dude. I know it's scary at first. But nothing will make you feel more alive and free than adrenaline. Except maybe cocaine. 
[last edit 2/23/2010 7:11 PM by DJ Craig - edited 1 times]
"You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself any direction you choose. You're on your own. And you know what you know. And YOU are the one who'll decide where to go..." -Dr. Suess |
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MindHacker
Location: Suburbs of DC
Gender: Male
If you spot a terrorist arrow, pin it to the wall with your shoulder.
| | Re: Fall Protection
<Reply # 18 on 2/24/2010 12:01 AM >
| | | | I'm gonna broaden the topic to fall protection in general.
Let's say there was a 500' ladder, and a number of people would be climbing it together. I think a lead-climbing type setup would be simpler than lobster-claws...
A rope would be tied to the harnesses of the lead climber, and the rear climber, and then quickdraws would be placed every 15'. The climbers in the middle would just clip into the rope. Then, when they came to a QD they could just unclip it and reclip it below them. The QD's could be gathered by the last man, or left to be picked up on the descent.
Anyone ever tried anything like this? 30 QD's would be a lot, but it wouldn't be too hard to pass them all back up every 100' or so.
"That's just my opinion. I would, however, advocate for explosive breaching, since speed and looking cool are both concerns in my job."-Wilkinshire |
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bfinan0
Location: Rochester, NY
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Fall Protection
<Reply # 19 on 2/24/2010 12:20 AM >
| | | | Posted by MindHacker
I'm gonna broaden the topic to fall protection in general.
Let's say there was a 500' ladder, and a number of people would be climbing it together. I think a lead-climbing type setup would be simpler than lobster-claws...
A rope would be tied to the harnesses of the lead climber, and the rear climber, and then quickdraws would be placed every 15'. The climbers in the middle would just clip into the rope. Then, when they came to a QD they could just unclip it and reclip it below them. The QD's could be gathered by the last man, or left to be picked up on the descent.
Anyone ever tried anything like this? 30 QD's would be a lot, but it wouldn't be too hard to pass them all back up every 100' or so.
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Hmm, why not have person 1 and 5 lobster clawing, then 2-3-4 roped to 1 and 6-7-8-9 roped to 5? In a group, there is no reason for each person to use the langostine method, as long as everyone is attached to each other, and the person at the top to the tower. This is how I was going to climb the 880 foot TV tower last fall (before the person with the rope didn't show up, ending that plan...)
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