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Server Time:
2024-05-15 04:46:24
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 Shawn W.
     
Location: Niagara Falls, NY
Gender: Male
Optimistic Pessimist
 |  |  |  | Appropriate shutter speed, aperture, ISO, etc.?
< on 3/10/2009 11:04 PM >
|  | | | Okay, as I posted last week, I bought a Nikon D80. I'm happy with the results that I've gotten thus far, but I want to take it further.
Being that this is my first SLR, and the first that I've done more than just mess around with since I took a photography class in 1994, I'm a bit lost when it comes to getting the results that I want. I'd like to be able to take shots in lower light without using a flash, such as for certain concerts (The Dresden Dolls come to mind), at club events, and, of course, for urban exploration, among other things, so that I can avoid washing out some of the color and detail.
Now, as the subject asks, what are the appropriate settings to achieve my goals? Any advice would be great, as I didn't spend hundreds of dollars to get a camera that I could use only on full auto, like a glorified point & shoot.
What is a rebel? A man who says no. - Albert Camus |
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Byberrian Fanman
Location: Fuck You
Gender: Male
| | Re: Appropriate shutter speed, aperture, ISO, etc.?
<Reply # 1 on 3/10/2009 11:44 PM >
| | | | Seeing as you have the 18-55 kit lens and (I presume) an 18-70, you'll want a tripod if you don't already have one. The optimum aperture for these lenses is f/8, for that setting produces maximum sharpness. However, if you don't care for maximum sharpness, you can set the aperture wide open, to f/3.5 in this case. The smaller the f/ number, the less time it takes for an image to expose. In most cases, ISO 100 will suffice, but you can go as high as 800 before your images become unbearably noisy/grainy. As for exposures, your camera is good for up to 30 seconds. If the required exposure is longer than 30 seconds, adjust the aperture and ISO accordingly.
Now, clubs are different, for in this situation you will want a faster lens. Before recently, there was only one budget choice for low-light shooting, the Nikon 50mm f1.8, which retails for around $130. Unfortunately, the 1.5x crop factor of most dSLRs makes the 50mm a bit long. Now, there is the Nikon 35mm f1.8 DX prime lens, which on DX cameras like the D80, equals the angle of view of a 50mm lens on a 35mm/full-frame body. This lens is going for around $200.
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bonesy12
Location: Edmonton, AB
Gender: Female
| | Re: Appropriate shutter speed, aperture, ISO, etc.?
<Reply # 2 on 3/11/2009 1:29 AM >
| | | | ya, if you wanna do indoor concerts in low light, you're gonna need better than the kit lens. i bought the d80 body a few months ago, and the 35m F2 lens to go on it. the lens is great, really sharp, and good in low light. its not a DX lens, and the autofocus isn't as fast as some of the DX lenses, but i'm overall very happy with the results i've been getting with it. i'd definately recommend it.
So please don't wake me,
Till someone cares.
Now no one cares. |
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Ogre Battle
Location: Chicago IL
Gender: Male
| | Re: Appropriate shutter speed, aperture, ISO, etc.?
<Reply # 3 on 3/11/2009 2:13 AM >
| | | | Good advice so far; I have to agree 100%.
For UE, I use my D80 on a tripod and shoot at either f5.6 or 8, on either Aperture Priority or Manual, at ISO 100. The long exposures are a moot point thanks to the tripod, and everything is tack sharp. If I have to go longer than 30 seconds, I bump the ISO up or open the lens by a stop. I also use the auto-bracketing feature, something I started doing in film days due to the narrow exposure latitude with slide film. I bracket + and - 0.7 stops.
I also do a lot of shooting indoors in occupied buildings (with the lights on), and for this I just open up to f2.8 and shoot handheld at ISO 400 or 800 (I have the 17-55 and 80-200 f2.8 zooms). I also have the aforementioned 35mm/f2 if I need it, but even better in my opinion would be the now-discontinued (and ultra-expensive) 28mm/f1.4.
Enjoy the D80; its a fine choice and I'm sure you'll get some great results!
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Byberrian Fanman
Location: Fuck You
Gender: Male
| | Re: Appropriate shutter speed, aperture, ISO, etc.?
<Reply # 4 on 3/11/2009 3:32 AM >
| | | | | Posted by Ogre BattleI also do a lot of shooting indoors in occupied buildings (with the lights on), and for this I just open up to f2.8 and shoot handheld at ISO 400 or 800 (I have the 17-55 and 80-200 f2.8 zooms). I also have the aforementioned 35mm/f2 if I need it, but even better in my opinion would be the now-discontinued (and ultra-expensive) 28mm/f1.4. |
Ah yes, the 28mm focal length is better than 35mm (IMO). The only real alternative to the 28mm f1.4 is the Sigma 28mm f1.8.. that is, if you find a good sample.
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Shawn W.
Location: Niagara Falls, NY
Gender: Male
Optimistic Pessimist
| | | | Re: Appropriate shutter speed, aperture, ISO, etc.?
<Reply # 5 on 3/11/2009 5:39 PM >
| | | | Thanks everyone. 
What is a rebel? A man who says no. - Albert Camus |
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e-photog
Location: Kitchener, Ontario
Gender: Male
This IS in fact me...
| | | Re: Appropriate shutter speed, aperture, ISO, etc.?
<Reply # 6 on 3/11/2009 10:52 PM >
| | | | Now I don't have a Nikon, but the same stuff usually goes both ways.
For my concert stuff, I have a 50mm Canon f/1.8 lens that I often use and crank my ISO to around 800 or even 1600 if really necessary, aperture at F/1.8 and shutter as fast as possible to reduce camera shake. In my personal opinion, I'd prefer to sacrifice a bit of digital noise (graininess) for a sharp image.
For my UE photos, I ALWAYS have a tripod. Since I have the use of a tripod, my ISO is often round 100-200, aperture around f/16, and shutter at whatever it needs to be. For a beginner, Aperture Priority (AV setting)mode might be helpful to use.
Another little trick I've picked up, especially for UE and Macro photography is to use mirror lock up mode and set my camera on a timer. I don't know how to do it on a Nikon but one of the other people who posted on here might be able to clue you in. But what this does, it helps to reduce minute vibrations caused by the mirror flipping up to capture the image.
Anyways, hope that helps a little and doesn't confuse you! Hehehe
Cheers!
www.e-photog.ca |
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Imbroglio
Location: DFW
Gender: Male
The glass is twice as big as it needs to be.
| | | Re: Appropriate shutter speed, aperture, ISO, etc.?
<Reply # 7 on 3/12/2009 4:14 AM >
| | | | Seems like all the comments thus far have been good and useful..The only thing I'd add, since you asked specifically about camera settings, is a word about depth of field, a cautionary tip on ISO, and a word about digital noise and "amp glow" with the D80 on low-light, long-exposure situations.
1. Perhaps you already understand how aperture affects depth of field; perhaps not though, since you're new at this, so briefly I will say you should understand that, at any given focal length, your depth of field increases as you "stop down", i.e., reduce the size of the aperture by selecting an aperture with a larger number. Also, understand that at a given aperture, the depth of field will also increase as you shorten your focal length.
Why is all this important? Properly planning the DoF is a really critical element in producing an image that goes beyond a simple documentary shot. Visit this Wiki article on depth of field, read it, and pay particular attention to the example images of flowers. It's a good illustration of how DoF control can totally change the feel of a shot:
http://en.wikipedi...iki/Depth_of_field
2. If you're shooting on a tripod, I would strongly recommend shooting at a max of ISO 200. Unless there's some form of motion you need to freeze, I can't think of a good reason to increase ISO...and along with it digital noise in the image. I shoot almost exclusively at night, and I shoot ONLY at ISO 100-200 depending on lighting conditions. If you have a good tripod, the difference between a 2 second exposure at ISO 1600 and a 16 second exposure at ISO 200 (a difference of 3 stops) is only fourteen additional seconds, but the final image quality will be infinitely different...especially if you go to print it up large.
3. About the Nikon D80...I started on this camera too and it's great for almost everything...just be aware that on longer exposures (several minutes), even with long exposure noise reduction enabled, there will often be what's called "amp glow" in the upper corners of the image, especially if the corners are dark areas, or are otherwise underexposed. Most folks never encounter this, but js=ust be aware that the problem exists and that countering is best done by making sure your corners, whatever they are, are adequately lit; this seems to override the amp glow somewhat.
Here's a picture that shows off some MAJOR amp glow. Of course, it's a 12 minute exposure, so even with LENR enabled, the D80 still overheats:
http://www.flickr....14@N00/2165462961/
This amp glow was the single reason I switched to a D300. The D300 uses a CMOS sensor...I don't even need LENR turned on, and I've shot images as long as 8 minutes that look super clean and noise free.
Also, the D90, while CMOS sensored and amp glow-free, is still an inferior camera to the D300 for low-light, long exposure photography. Here's my explanation of why:
http://www.uer.ca/...rrpage=1&pp#post14
Hope this helps,
Noel
http://www.noelkernsphotography.com |
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Faustomatic
| | Re: Appropriate shutter speed, aperture, ISO, etc.?
<Reply # 8 on 3/12/2009 12:46 PM >
| | | | I shoot Canon, but you can probably figure out which Nikon lenses, etc fit your needs. I shoot a lot for some of the local bands and I have to agree with what's been said above...you need faster glass. Also, don't get sucked in by IS or VR (Nikon is Vibration Reduction, right?). An image stabilized lens might get you a few extra stops for exposure, but it really only helps if you subject isn't moving. You'll have these amazingly well lit photos of a tack sharp stage and some blurry thing holding what might be a guitar.
All of my lenses are f/2.8 with the exception of the lensbaby (f/2.0) and my 50mm (f/1.4). I usually leave my ISO set between 1250 and 3200, depending on how dark it is. Very rarely I can get away with ISO 600 or 800. If I'm allowed to use a flash, then I go with ISO 400 and I can close my aperture to get more depth of field. I recommend getting your white balance dialed in as soon as you can if you're shooting jpg, or converting them all to B&W if they're constantly changing the lighting. If you have enough memory cards to shoot RAW+jpg, that's the way to go. The upside to shooting RAW is that you can adjust your WB later, which is great when you're dealing with lighting that's constantly changing color. The downside is that your buffer fills up a lot faster, so you have to anticipate when something interesting is going to happen and try not to start shooting too soon or you'll be watching that BUSY light flashing while the hot chick singing is flashing the crowd. Personally, I like B&W so I tend to shoot jpg and hope that my WB settings are good enough if I want a color shot. I only shoot RAW or RAW+jpg if it's someone from out of town that I know won't be back for a year or two. And even then I switch back to straight jpg after the first 5 songs.
Always ask if you can shoot if you weren't invited to shoot. Offering copies of the photos goes a long way when asking. And always ask if you can use a flash even if you don't plan on using it, you might need it later.
As for UE photography, unless you plan on long exposures with a tripod or high ISO shots, you might want to invest in an speedlite and play with your flash exposure compensation. Or practice light painting with your flashlight.
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Faustomatic
| | Re: Appropriate shutter speed, aperture, ISO, etc.?
<Reply # 9 on 3/12/2009 12:56 PM >
| | | | I forgot...another option for the obnoxious light shows is to use Aperture Priority mode. You can set your widest aperture and let the camera figure out the shutter speed and ISO. It's helpful most of the time, but like any of the modes where the camera controls something, it can be frustrating, especially in random lighting. I shoot manual 100% of the time anymore and for concerts I leave my aperture wide open and use the ISO settings stated above so I can quickly adjust my shutter speed manually to get the effect I want.
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Ogre Battle
Location: Chicago IL
Gender: Male
| | Re: Appropriate shutter speed, aperture, ISO, etc.?
<Reply # 10 on 3/12/2009 4:18 PM >
| | | | Posted by Imbroglio
2. If you're shooting on a tripod, I would strongly recommend shooting at a max of ISO 200. Unless there's some form of motion you need to freeze, I can't think of a good reason to increase ISO...and along with it digital noise in the image. I shoot almost exclusively at night, and I shoot ONLY at ISO 100-200 depending on lighting conditions. If you have a good tripod, the difference between a 2 second exposure at ISO 1600 and a 16 second exposure at ISO 200 (a difference of 3 stops) is only fourteen additional seconds, but the final image quality will be infinitely different...especially if you go to print it up large. |
Agree 100%. Your example is excellent; that 2-second exposure is going to need a tripod anyway, so you might as well go for the better quality ISO 100 image and a longer exposure. I've never understood the logic of shooting at, say, 1/4 sec. at ISO 3200 yet I see people doing it all the time.
3. About the Nikon D80...I started on this camera too and it's great for almost everything...just be aware that on longer exposures (several minutes), even with long exposure noise reduction enabled, there will often be what's called "amp glow" in the upper corners of the image, especially if the corners are dark areas, or are otherwise underexposed. Most folks never encounter this, but js=ust be aware that the problem exists and that countering is best done by making sure your corners, whatever they are, are adequately lit; this seems to override the amp glow somewhat.
Here's a picture that shows off some MAJOR amp glow. Of course, it's a 12 minute exposure, so even with LENR enabled, the D80 still overheats:
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Yep, that's amp glow, its always those two corners. Mine tends to run a little greenish.
I occasionally play around with open-flash night shots (the old-fashioned way, using flash bulbs), and the limiting factor for me is how quickly I can run around and flash the bulbs and get back in range to close the shutter with the wireless remote. In film days, it was easy to have a helper cover the lens if necessary for those shots where there are obnoxious streetlights that might burn in, but covering the lens won't prevent amp glow... One clumsy but effective workaround technique is to frame extra-wide, and allow room to crop out the glow. Oh, well, maybe the D300 will be calling me too at some point.
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hilite
Gender: Male
don't destroy my sweater....
| | | Re: Appropriate shutter speed, aperture, ISO, etc.?
<Reply # 11 on 3/12/2009 4:57 PM >
| | | | I used this youtube site,
http://www.youtube.com/user/cameralabs
the guy reminds me of Moby, and his videos are straight to the point and basic.
And when you finally disappear, We'll just say you were never here. |
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Shawn W.
Location: Niagara Falls, NY
Gender: Male
Optimistic Pessimist
| | | | Re: Appropriate shutter speed, aperture, ISO, etc.?
<Reply # 12 on 3/12/2009 6:44 PM >
| | | | Imbroglio and Ogre, how do you get the shutter to stay open for so long on a D80? I thought that it wasn't capable of doing more than a 30 second exposure.
What is a rebel? A man who says no. - Albert Camus |
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Byberrian Fanman
Location: Fuck You
Gender: Male
| | Re: Appropriate shutter speed, aperture, ISO, etc.?
<Reply # 13 on 3/12/2009 7:06 PM >
| | | | Posted by Shawn W.
Imbroglio and Ogre, how do you get the shutter to stay open for so long on a D80? I thought that it wasn't capable of doing more than a 30 second exposure.
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For that, you either need to set the exposure to 'BULB' and keep your finger on the shutter button for minutes at a time, OR.. you can purchase an accessory cable release which can be locked.
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heinrick
 
Location: Cascadia
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Appropriate shutter speed, aperture, ISO, etc.?
<Reply # 14 on 3/12/2009 7:25 PM >
| | | | Posted by Byberrian Fanman
For that, you either need to set the exposure to 'BULB' and keep your finger on the shutter button for minutes at a time, OR.. you can purchase an accessory cable release which can be locked.
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I just purchased the ML-L3 Remote Control for the Nikon for $9 on Amazon.com, and it's pretty cool. The only issue I have with using it is that I have to stand in front of the camera and point at the infrared sensor to trigger it, hopping out of frame before the shutter is released. That sure beats shooting at higher ISO when 30 seconds isn't enough. And self-portraits are fun.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/heinrick05/ |
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Byberrian Fanman
Location: Fuck You
Gender: Male
| | Re: Appropriate shutter speed, aperture, ISO, etc.?
<Reply # 15 on 3/12/2009 7:37 PM >
| | | | Posted by heinrick
I just purchased the ML-L3 Remote Control for the Nikon for $9 on Amazon.com, and it's pretty cool. The only issue I have with using it is that I have to stand in front of the camera and point at the infrared sensor to trigger it, hopping out of frame before the shutter is released. That sure beats shooting at higher ISO when 30 seconds isn't enough. And self-portraits are fun.
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Unfortunately, the remote does NOT work for 'BULB', which is the key for long exposures (longer than 30 seconds). If it somehow did though, I'd be very happy, because the D40/x/60 bodies won't even accept cable releases.
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Ogre Battle
Location: Chicago IL
Gender: Male
| | Re: Appropriate shutter speed, aperture, ISO, etc.?
<Reply # 16 on 3/12/2009 8:23 PM >
| | | | The remote does work for Bulb on the D80 (not sure about the D40 & 60). Advance the Drive setting to "Remote", set the shutter speed to Bulb, and you're all set. Press once to open the shutter, and again to close it.
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rob.i.am
Gender: Male
Carpe noctum
| | | Re: Appropriate shutter speed, aperture, ISO, etc.?
<Reply # 17 on 3/12/2009 8:58 PM >
|  | | | Posted by Ogre Battle
The remote does work for Bulb on the D80 (not sure about the D40 & 60). Advance the Drive setting to "Remote", set the shutter speed to Bulb, and you're all set. Press once to open the shutter, and again to close it.
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It works that way on the D60 too.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rob666/ |
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Byberrian Fanman
Location: Fuck You
Gender: Male
| | Re: Appropriate shutter speed, aperture, ISO, etc.?
<Reply # 18 on 3/12/2009 9:06 PM >
| | | | Posted by Ogre Battle
The remote does work for Bulb on the D80 (not sure about the D40 & 60). Advance the Drive setting to "Remote", set the shutter speed to Bulb, and you're all set. Press once to open the shutter, and again to close it.
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Hmmm.. I wasn't aware of that, thanks for the info.
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yokes
Location: Toronto
Gender: Male
I aim to misbehave
| | | | Re: Appropriate shutter speed, aperture, ISO, etc.?
<Reply # 19 on 3/12/2009 9:16 PM >
| | | | You need to buy a D3X.
/UER camera advice
"Great architecture has only two natural enemies: water and stupid men." - Richard Nickel |
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