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 Air
      
Location: Canada
 |  | Re: Nazi splashed remnants in North America. (wordy/history).
<Reply # 20 on 2/16/2009 2:18 PM >
|  | | | Posted by IIVQ
No, save a few spies, the Nazi's weren't at a "lot of places" (i.e. in the USA) after 1939. However, A lot of global conglomerates with roots in Germany, or as you like to say: or even openly supported the nazis were "in a lot of places". That does NOT mean the nazis themself were in a lot of places.
Tijmen
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How about South America (and I don't just mean Argentina where lived after the war), just as one example.
IG Farben was a huge conglomerate, I don't even know all of the subsidiary industries they spawned and obviously where they could have been.
Edit from wikipedia: "In 1941, an investigation exposed a "marriage" cartel between John D. Rockefeller's United States-based Standard Oil Co. and I.G. Farben.[15][16] (see[17] and[18]) It also brought new evidence concerning complex price and marketing agreements between DuPont, a major investor in and producer of leaded gasoline, U.S. Industrial Alcohol Co. and their subsidiary, Cuba Distilling Co. The investigation was eventually dropped, like dozens of others in many different kinds of industries, due to the need to enlist industry support in the war effort. However, the top directors of many oil companies agreed to resign and oil industry stocks in molasses companies were sold off as part of a compromise worked out. (see[19][20] but see[21])"
here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IG_Farben
[last edit 2/16/2009 2:26 PM by Air - edited 2 times]
"The extraordinary beauty of things that fail." - Heinrich von Kleist |
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jtcolfax
 
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
Location: northeast usa
Gender: Male
| |  | Re: Nazi splashed remnants in North America. (wordy/history).
<Reply # 21 on 2/16/2009 5:25 PM >
| | | | Interesting points IIVQ,..but I.G. Farben was like the other companies too, in that it was a long established conglomerate, and it was forced into Nazism by the regime too. It's founder Carl Duisberg flat out refused to do Hitler's bidding to his face, which sent him into an absolute rage. Duisberg was too much of a national hero for even Hitler to dispose of at that point. He basically spent his remaining few years as a prisoner in his mansion. Farben then distinguished itself by going whole HOG into the disaster and buying all the slaves that could be handed to it.
Anyway, the subject of what Nazism is/was or seems like is much too complicated for this space. Obviously you couldn't swing a dead cat in most of Europe without hitting something "touched" by Nazism. These things I have shown have some sort of, maybe cheap, connection. No one in North America can point at a building and say "Hitler slept here." That is why I was wondering though, if anyone has anything else in North America that has some sort of Nazi smear. I know that Nazi pow's were kept in other places than in Fort Dev. I think some were held in Canada.
But since we have moved on to Europe, is there anyone who has ever actually tried to view the storm drains under Auschwitz. That is one drain the idea of which exploring makes me shudder.
And about last nights unpleasantries...simply this...things are not always what they seem. When someone sets themselves up to be an expert in the past on everything you do/say/think or mean well then, their little pat on the head can take on a new light. And Air, perhaps I misread your tone about "ever heard of Auschwitz". I have seen those documentaries too. Very worthwhile.
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velcrozeppelin
 
Location: Rochester, NY
Gender: Male
Mandalorian Mayhem
| | |  | Re: Nazi splashed remnants in North America. (wordy/history).
<Reply # 22 on 2/16/2009 5:49 PM >
| | | | Colfax, interesting history and good writeup. It's interesting to think about the broad, multinational corporate relationships during the WWII era. I might have to head down 81 soon to see some of this for myself.
Me goin' legit would be like JarJar on speech therapy.
I'm on Flickr now! My Flickr Stream | I'm about as thick as a Bryk. |
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jtcolfax
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
Location: northeast usa
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Nazi splashed remnants in North America. (wordy/history).
<Reply # 24 on 2/16/2009 6:23 PM >
| | | | sure..come see zepplin.
looks interesting Marvin, but I have to go to work,..will surely check it out.
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Soldat
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Gender: Male
The Mayor of Noobtown
| | | Re: Nazi splashed remnants in North America. (wordy/history).
<Reply # 25 on 2/16/2009 9:13 PM >
| | | | Posted by jtcolfax
Fort Dev held about 3000 Nazi prisoners of war, and in one famous incident near the end of the war, about 1800 of them signed a letter to their fellow Germans asking them to give up. It was widely publicized in the USA, and it was dropped from bombers over Germany. Bang..end of that story.
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German. German prisoners of war.
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IIVQ
 
Location: La Sud-Est du cité majeur du North-Holland (Bijlmer), .NL
Gender: Male
Back in Urbex!
| |  |  | | Re: Nazi splashed remnants in North America. (wordy/history).
<Reply # 26 on 2/16/2009 10:20 PM >
|  | | | Posted by Soldat222
German. German prisoners of war.
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Now this is another thing, because nazi germany had 3 armies:
- Heer, the national army
- Wehrmacht, the NSDAP army
- SS. hitler's elite troops
Generally speaking, the heer had almost no role in the war, the wehrmacht did most of the normal fighting, terrain advance and land protection, while the SS WAS FOR THE REALLY NASTY THINGS LIKE GUARDING CONCENTRATION CAMP, razzias etc.
tijmen.
Sorry for cars, i'm on a cellphoe
Posted by MapMan | 18/9/2005 19:25 | Hedy Lamarr made porn?
Posted by turbozutek | 20/9/2005 2:29 | Dude, educate us! |
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/-/ooligan
Location: Las Vegas area
Gender: Male
When in danger, when in doubt, RUN IN CIRCLES, SCREAM AND SHOUT!
| | Re: Nazi splashed remnants in North America. (wordy/history).
<Reply # 27 on 2/16/2009 10:52 PM >
| | | | You UE'ed some cool places, but provided absolutely nothing to demonstrate or articulate your rather fervent claims of naziism or racism. Making a big deal out of the little 'lawn jockey' statues and claiming they represent a racist community is rather silly, and is what caused me to enjoy your photos, but give no credence to your stories.
/-/ooligan
There are no stupid questions, just stupid people. |
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jtcolfax
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
Location: northeast usa
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Nazi splashed remnants in North America. (wordy/history).
<Reply # 28 on 2/17/2009 3:34 AM >
| | | | Outrageous. There is ONE sentence about the lawn jockies. ONE. That is certainly not a big deal. Never said word ONE about racism, and therefore did not say anything about a racist community.
I did provide a link to a flickr account, which may be a LITTLE inconvenient in that one has to root thru other things...but it sure enough shows you some of the things I mentioned, like IG Farben official in a Binghamton City Council meeting, and the RFK thing. They are there in their original black and white, straight out of the paper from the day they came out. Other things I mentioned are not there BUT could be.
As for the concept about the prisoners at Devens being Nazi's or Germans I only referred to them as the New York Times referred to them at The Time...same thing on the RFK "Nazi" smear.
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jtcolfax
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
Location: northeast usa
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Nazi splashed remnants in North America. (wordy/history).
<Reply # 29 on 2/17/2009 3:42 AM >
| | | | http://www.flickr....52@N08/2815096878/
And this one is from a recent book, and though it doesn't show the whole story, it gives you the name of the engineer I spoke of who moved here and worked with the machines:
http://www.flickr....52@N08/2821188233/
I do not see "fervent claims" of Nazism. In the 4 places I spoke of I related a past about the places that "splashed" on Nazi history in the USA. I tried to avoid the USUAL "Oh and here's a bunch of wiki crappola." In all places where I used the word Nazi, again I say, I was using the words as REPORTED. In no case did I embellish or make things seem bigger or more fervent than they were.
The three businesses, Ozalid, Agfa, and by extension it's resort Lake, were all basically ruined by their association with the I. G. Fort Dev. of course has a long history aside from the period when they housed German prisoners of war, who the newspapers called Nazis.
It is one thing to say perhaps I should have provided more documentation, it is quite another to try to turn black into white before anyone's eyes who read this.
Your insistence that my ONE sentence about lawn jockies was a "Big Deal" should give anyone pause about what YOU say. And again...there are only 5 pages on that flickr account and it is easy to spot the articles there that relate to this, compared to what little else is on there. And that WAS provided last nite.
Would you like me to provide more documentation when I have time, or would you rather shriek in such a way as to imply none of this is true.
[last edit 2/17/2009 4:14 AM by jtcolfax - edited 2 times]
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Soldat
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Gender: Male
The Mayor of Noobtown
| | | Re: Nazi splashed remnants in North America. (wordy/history).
<Reply # 30 on 2/17/2009 5:16 AM >
| | | | Posted by IIVQ
Now this is another thing, because nazi germany had 3 armies:
- Heer, the national army
- Wehrmacht, the NSDAP army
- SS. hitler's elite troops
Generally speaking, the heer had almost no role in the war, the wehrmacht did most of the normal fighting, terrain advance and land protection, while the SS WAS FOR THE REALLY NASTY THINGS LIKE GUARDING CONCENTRATION CAMP, razzias etc.
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Thats not true.
The Wehrmacht was all of the German armed forces. It included the Army(Heer), Air Force(Luftwaffe), and Navy(Kriegsmarine). The waffen-SS was not part of the wehrmacht, but was under the command of the wehrmacht high command. Other branches of the SS operated independently.
So it should read
Heer: German Army
Wehrmacht: The German armed forces
SS: NSDAP army and paramilitary force
The Heer had the largest role in ground war, with over 13 million serving in it between 1939 and 1945. The wehrmact of course had a bigger role as it included the airforce and the navy. The SS is accurate, with a the SS-Totenkopfstandarten in charge of camps and the waffen-SS units often being involved in war crimes.
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tunnelbug
Location: California
Gender: Male
| | | | Re: Nazi splashed remnants in North America. (wordy/history).
<Reply # 31 on 2/17/2009 8:01 AM >
| | | | I'm not going to try to add to the drama, but I will say that this entire writeup and related history is way better than sitting next to a crackling fire with a piece of historic non-fiction in hand.
I will also add that California has two so-called "Nazi" sites.
-- Byron Hot Springs
Served as a POW camp for high-ranking German and Japanese officers, also known as Camp Tracy.
http://www.veteran...ad&order=0&thold=0
-- Rustic Canyon Compound
A few daytime shots and snippets from the Times here: http://blog.kobek....ngeles-california/
Bearings: A Geographer's Blog
Member of the CTC |
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IIVQ
Location: La Sud-Est du cité majeur du North-Holland (Bijlmer), .NL
Gender: Male
Back in Urbex!
| | | | | Re: Nazi splashed remnants in North America. (wordy/history).
<Reply # 32 on 2/17/2009 8:11 AM >
| | | | Posted by Soldat222
Thats not true.
The Wehrmacht was all of the German armed forces. It included the Army(Heer), Air Force(Luftwaffe), and Navy(Kriegsmarine). The waffen-SS was not part of the wehrmacht, but was under the command of the wehrmacht high command. Other branches of the SS operated independently.
So it should read
Heer: German Army
Wehrmacht: The German armed forces
SS: NSDAP army and paramilitary force
The Heer had the largest role in ground war, with over 13 million serving in it between 1939 and 1945. The wehrmact of course had a bigger role as it included the airforce and the navy. The SS is accurate, with a the SS-Totenkopfstandarten in charge of camps and the waffen-SS units often being involved in war crimes.
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Ah. After looking up some things, I stand corrected.
Posted by MapMan | 18/9/2005 19:25 | Hedy Lamarr made porn?
Posted by turbozutek | 20/9/2005 2:29 | Dude, educate us! |
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IIVQ
Location: La Sud-Est du cité majeur du North-Holland (Bijlmer), .NL
Gender: Male
Back in Urbex!
| | | | | Re: Nazi splashed remnants in North America. (wordy/history).
<Reply # 33 on 2/17/2009 8:12 AM >
| | | | Posted by /-/ooligan
You UE'ed some cool places, but provided absolutely nothing to demonstrate or articulate your rather fervent claims of naziism or racism. Making a big deal out of the little 'lawn jockey' statues and claiming they represent a racist community is rather silly, and is what caused me to enjoy your photos, but give no credence to your stories.
/-/ooligan
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My comments were not meant to dwongrade jtcolfax' cool finds, just to demote the "nazi" claims a bit. It still are cool finds!
Tijmen
Posted by MapMan | 18/9/2005 19:25 | Hedy Lamarr made porn?
Posted by turbozutek | 20/9/2005 2:29 | Dude, educate us! |
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Agent Skelly
 
Web Sheriff
Location: Oregon Territory
Gender: Male
Prenez De L'Avance Avec Chrysler!
| |  | | | Re: Nazi splashed remnants in North America. (wordy/history).
<Reply # 34 on 2/17/2009 10:46 AM >
| | | | Wasn't AFGA one of the companies that we (the US) actually restart much like NTT in Japan?
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Honshu
| | Re: Nazi splashed remnants in North America. (wordy/history).
<Reply # 35 on 2/17/2009 1:04 PM >
| | | | Posted by IIVQ
Ah. After looking up some things, I stand corrected.
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That is finally correct, I was going to correct that. Actually they were two different armies, and then they were merged into one, it worked for the propaganda machine that the Nazis were running at that time. I would know this to be true since my son's mom's grandfather was a Nazi (Now Deceased 2005)
He was in the invasion force that attacked Poland. In 1941 he defected and assisted the Allies with information to help land forces in Normandy. He recieved a medal from Canada, can't remember what it was, but he threw it away. Something about fighting against evil shouldnt be rewarded but a duty.
Ironically on a side note. I sold part of his old uniform to neo-nazis, and donated the money to charity.
[last edit 2/17/2009 1:08 PM by Honshu - edited 1 times]
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velcrozeppelin
Location: Rochester, NY
Gender: Male
Mandalorian Mayhem
| | | | Re: Nazi splashed remnants in North America. (wordy/history).
<Reply # 36 on 2/17/2009 1:11 PM >
| | | | Just to weigh in, I performed a little research and it seems that Agfa Lake's name was changed not long after the war/at the start of the Cold War.
Like many towns in the US, this name change might be due to the Nazi correlation (even if no Nazis ever lived there, even if it was only named after a city in Germany).
The town I grew up in, Berlin, NY, began calling itself Berlin, emphasis on the Berl (aka pronounced Buhrl-in) instead of the more traditional pronunciation of the German city. Berlin, NY was directly named after Berlin, Germany, as it was settled by German immigrants. Only after WWII did people correspond Berlin NY with Nazism in Berlin Germany.
I'm not saying that Agfa Lake had a name change specifically because of the implied Nazism behind the German name, but the timing of the name change suggests that it might be a part of it.
[last edit 2/17/2009 3:00 PM by velcrozeppelin - edited 1 times]
Me goin' legit would be like JarJar on speech therapy.
I'm on Flickr now! My Flickr Stream | I'm about as thick as a Bryk. |
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jtcolfax
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
Location: northeast usa
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Nazi splashed remnants in North America. (wordy/history).
<Reply # 37 on 2/17/2009 1:31 PM >
| | | | Yes, it's called GAF Lake now, a rather clunky name, but it's short for General Aniline and Film. I felt that I should leave that out as one measure of sorta not posting basically it's address. But, oh well.
I am still pondering why the various types of armies are being debated. I thought I tried really hard originally to not make any remarks that related to Nazism in any other context than what it had to do with these U.S. places. I don't know why this became a huge sinkhole for any babble about Nazism. I have been to sites IN Germany that are relics from that era, and have never mentioned them, as that is off this topic.
And just in passing, the name Agfa is still out there, but it was bought by a Japanese firm, and really doesn't exist as it's own entity anymore.
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NickSan
RIP
Location: Portland Or.
Gender: Male
UER newbie
| | | Re: Nazi splashed remnants in North America. (wordy/history).
<Reply # 38 on 2/17/2009 8:24 PM >
| | | | Posted by IIVQ
openly supported the nazis were "in a lot of places". That does NOT mean the nazis themself were in a lot of places.
Tijmen
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Walt Disney for one.
He was the only in Hollywood to happy meet with Leni Riefenstahl
http://www.darkviews.com/
http://www.myspace.com/nicksan62
“Those who dream by day are cognizant of many things which escape those who dream only by night.� |
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Live-Bait
| | Re: Nazi splashed remnants in North America. (wordy/history).
<Reply # 39 on 2/17/2009 9:15 PM >
| | | | this conversation needs to end, and everyone needs to go read a lot of books.
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