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 sandslider
Gender: Male
 |  |  | No Trespassing Signage
< on 10/9/2008 6:48 AM >
|  | | | I imagine it is beneficial if these signs disappeared before venturing inside a particular site. I recall reading how property owners are required to post these types of signs on every corner of the property in order to successfully prosecute (at least here in AZ). Does anyone have any stories or advice on this topic?
Thanks in advance!
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Steed
        
Location: Edmonton/Seoul
Gender: Male
Your Friendly Neighbourhood Race Traitor
| | | Re: No Trespassing Signage
<Reply # 1 on 10/9/2008 7:03 AM >
| | | | You mean taking the signs down yourself? That would probably stir a debate on here.
I have in the past done a few questionable things to get inside a site. One time, there was a window that had already been smashed, and then the pieces were put back up and taped into place. I simply disassembled the pieces, gaining entry without officially breaking anything. But what I did, and what I would recommend you do if you seriously want to risk moving the signs, is do it and then don't enter the site for about a week. That way, at least you can truthfully say it was like that when you got there.
I had no moral qualms about disassembling the broken window. I can't say the same about moving No Trespassing signs. Doing that might make it easier for law enforcement to prove criminal intent. It could also alert owners to the fact that someone has trespassed.
[last edit 10/9/2008 7:04 AM by Steed - edited 1 times]
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metawaffle
King of Puns
Location: Brisbane!
Gender: Male
Purveyor of Fine Lampshades
| | | Re: No Trespassing Signage
<Reply # 2 on 10/9/2008 7:05 AM >
| | | | Good points, racetraitor. It might also alert the powers that be to be more vigilant.
Anyway, the idea that removing the signs provides a legal loophole for trespassing sounds too good to be true 
http://www.longexposure.net |
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Steed
Location: Edmonton/Seoul
Gender: Male
Your Friendly Neighbourhood Race Traitor
| | | Re: No Trespassing Signage
<Reply # 3 on 10/9/2008 7:14 AM >
| | | | Posted by metawaffle
Good points, racetraitor. It might also alert the powers that be to be more vigilant.
Anyway, the idea that removing the signs provides a legal loophole for trespassing sounds too good to be true
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Yeah, it sounds like Trailer-Park-Boys logic. Like that episode where they were stealing lawn furniture by moving it to the curb.
"Trevor goes up, takes the stuff and brings it to the curb. That's taking out their garbage. That's not stealing. I come along and pick it up, so I'm doing people a favour... I'm getting rid of their garbage. That's not stealing. So if he's not stealing and I'm not stealing, who's stealing? No one. It's perfectly fine."
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Insitor
Location: above and below the midwest
Gender: Male
a firm believer in brawn over brains
| | Re: No Trespassing Signage
<Reply # 4 on 10/9/2008 7:17 AM >
| | | | metawaffle is right, that does sound too good to be true. But I have found it helpful to gauge the awareness of the property owner by removing the signs and then waiting awhile, like a week to a month, to see if they will be replaced. If they are, the owner is rather vigilant, but if not, then that is your opportunity. Happy exploring!
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insainly sound
Location: Bay Area, CA
Gender: Female
How'd we get here, and how are we getting out of here?!
| | | Re: No Trespassing Signage
<Reply # 5 on 10/9/2008 3:59 PM >
| | | | You need to consider it carefully. I agree that the idea that removing sign makes it "legal" seems like a pipe dream. I would recommend studying that carefully. I know in my locale if your caught on the other side of the fence regardless of no trespassing signs, it's illegal. From my reading, even being inside of a building without permission to be there can be trespassing.
Check out my photo blog! |
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shellyl
Location: Lenoir NC
Gender: Female
I have learned not sweat the petty things and not to pet the sweaty things.
| | Re: No Trespassing Signage
<Reply # 6 on 10/9/2008 4:51 PM >
| | | | It is a crap shoot. The signs are there but there is no real difference if they are not. Unless you are a total retard (sorry for the term) and sitting there rocking back and forth drooling on yourself they can pretty much prove you knew that the place is not yours to be poking around on. Other than that,
1) You can grab the cell and call the owner to back up your story it was ok with him to be there.
2) If it is next door to a public park or state land ok yah, you ventured too far over the line and missed the signs, hey ya got a chance.
3) You come across security or a cop who hands you a break and you move along.
4) You get caught, no breaks for you sucker and the rest is up to random dumb luck or screwedisums. You can let us know how is all worked out.
Bottom line, it all comes back to the crap shoot and experience.
A mirage is not an optical illusion. It is a real phenomenon, and one can take photographs of it. The interpretation of the image, however, is up to the fantasy of the human mind.
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Wilk
Location: NYC
Gender: Male
| | | Re: No Trespassing Signage
<Reply # 7 on 10/9/2008 5:20 PM >
| | | | I've found it's easier to try and talk your way out of a situation if busted rather than go thought the trouble of removing trespassing signs to make your case later.
Ready for liftoff
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Samurai
 
Vehicular Lord Rick
Location: northeastern New York
No matter where you go, there you are...
| | Re: No Trespassing Signage
<Reply # 8 on 10/9/2008 5:42 PM >
| | | | by removing, or altering a 'No Trespassing" sign, not only are you trespassing, but now you can be arrested for vandalism, too. 
just something to keep in mind.
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willskith
Location: Boston, MA
Gender: Male
| |  | | Re: No Trespassing Signage
<Reply # 9 on 10/9/2008 6:23 PM >
| | | | ignore them and dont get caught.
at least in MA, even if the sign is missing, if it is private property you can be prosecuted. so sign or not, your taking the same chance
grit your teeth in the face of fear. self repression is the true sign of a coward, toss your inhibitions to the wind. |
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Neophile
Location: Chicago, IL
Gender: Female
She dreams in digital.
| | Re: No Trespassing Signage
<Reply # 10 on 10/9/2008 7:19 PM >
| | | | Yeah, I think this is a crapshoot like Shellyl said.
For what it is worth my cousin in law owns a farm in Illinois and the trespassing sign thing matters there. They have a lot of land that snowmobilers find appealing and say that every winter they get several no trespassing signs stolen for this reason. They said it is because it was harder to prosecute around that area if you do not post signs. Again, this may be circumstantial on that their land abuts other open land.
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monster
Location: Sugarland, TX / Minneapolis MN
Gender: Female
I am the thing that goes bump in the night
| | Re: No Trespassing Signage
<Reply # 11 on 10/11/2008 12:15 AM >
| | | | Just bring a dog leash with you and if caught, say you were looking for your dog!
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chumpster
Location: chicago
Gender: Male
Mondo Rondo
| | Re: No Trespassing Signage
<Reply # 12 on 10/11/2008 12:31 AM >
| | | | just dont get caught. if you do though, then just act dumb and say you must have missed the sign and then just leave.
http://flickr.com/photos/applefaces/ |
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Tablespoon
Location: Lake Forest, CA
Gender: Male
| | Re: No Trespassing Signage
<Reply # 14 on 10/11/2008 3:28 AM >
| | | | I think he just meant that it would be better to wait until the signs are no longer there before setting foot on the site.
Edit: Never mind, I reread what he wrote and decided against my initial thought.
[last edit 10/11/2008 3:29 AM by Tablespoon - edited 1 times]
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Steed
Location: Edmonton/Seoul
Gender: Male
Your Friendly Neighbourhood Race Traitor
| | | Re: No Trespassing Signage
<Reply # 15 on 10/11/2008 3:29 AM >
| | | | Posted by monster
Just bring a dog leash with you and if caught, say you were looking for your dog!
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This is actually a great idea. I'd suggest a cat depending on local leash laws, but the best would be to go with the one you know best, so you can be a convincing liar.
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rainman8889
Location: H.T.S.F.C. Time to gain and a time to lose.
Bye for now.
| | Re: No Trespassing Signage
<Reply # 16 on 10/11/2008 12:43 PM >
| | | | Posted by metawaffle
Good points, racetraitor. It might also alert the powers that be to be more vigilant.
Anyway, the idea that removing the signs provides a legal loophole for trespassing sounds too good to be true
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Not to mention that would also expose the owner of the property to a law suit if someone else comes in after the signage was removed and gets hurt. No signage means the owner could very well have a very difficult if not impossible time defending him/her self in court.
Just my opinion here:
Best to leave them alone and find another site.
Gone for a while. Be back when I'm back. |
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IDChris
Location: Southern Idaho Wasteland
Gender: Male
| | Re: No Trespassing Signage
<Reply # 17 on 10/18/2008 2:05 PM >
| | | | Posted by Neophile
Yeah, I think this is a crapshoot like Shellyl said.
For what it is worth my cousin in law owns a farm in Illinois and the trespassing sign thing matters there. They have a lot of land that snowmobilers find appealing and say that every winter they get several no trespassing signs stolen for this reason. They said it is because it was harder to prosecute around that area if you do not post signs. Again, this may be circumstantial on that their land abuts other open land.
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Your cousin should do what my uncle and cousin had to do on their land in IA. They had No Trespassing signs made of 1/2" plate steel with the letters engraved and painted white. They then bolted them to trees and ground off the heads. They too have been having trouble with hunters and ATV'ers.
As far as exploring goes, just say you didn't see them, if you get caught. It's worked for me a few times. I do admit using the dog excuse once on a whim.
I wouldn't remove the signs. I think you are opening yourself up to more trouble. You never know who may see you.
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Aleksandar
Location: United States
Gender: Male
your darkest shadow, my oldest friend; the world's become ashes, this is the end.
| | Re: No Trespassing Signage
<Reply # 18 on 10/19/2008 5:46 AM >
| | | | Others have already said everything I'm going to but I'll add just to be another confirming voice. Pleading ignorance and using the "i'm a photographer looking for unique shots" excuse usually works if you are caught Trespassing. Cops and private security typically just want you to leave without incident, folks in that line of work aren't looking to escalate further than necessary.
In the years I've enjoyed our hobby, I've occasionally been stopped or spotted. Acting friendly, polite, ignorant and non-threatening has always worked and I've never gotten in trouble.
Also, my uex outfits and gear are a great mix of sturdy blues & grays with just enough plausibility that I don't look out of place just walking down the street. This is important, too, if you get caught beyond a No Trespassing sign. You don't want to be dressed in all black or even worse in fatigues, looking like James Bond.
Freedom breeds war; and Peace, slavery. So it shall be forevermore: Men who love freedom buy it with their lives, and lovers of peace with their freedom. |
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MHInc
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
Location: Niagara Falls, Ontario Canada
Gender: Male
| | | Re: No Trespassing Signage
<Reply # 19 on 10/19/2008 8:46 AM >
| | | | Posted by monster
Just bring a dog leash with you and if caught, say you were looking for your dog!
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I like this idea as well. Only problem is, my luck I would get a SUPER nice cop that would want a full description of "Fluffy" or "Spike" and he would spend 3 hours helping me look for my non existant dog ;)
I find honestly just being respectful, having a camera around my neck, not running if I am spotted and just explaining that I enjoy photographing places like this. Is the best way. At least from my area. But it does differ from area to area, so it's hard to say.
MH Inc. Photography Canada
http://www.mhinccanada.com
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