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UER Forum > Archived Rookie Forum > Strange drain stairs... (Viewed 1455 times)
shotgun mario 


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Strange drain stairs...
< on 7/7/2008 1:54 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
well, that's the closest thing to calling them... I'm just wondering if anyone else has ever experienced something close to this:



Here's my only picture I could get of it (before I began climbing, and realized just how big it really was...



You can just make out 2 (maybe 3) steps through the raindrops...

We entered a drain at the bottom of a 80 foot cliff, about 50" diameter, and after 100 yards we were met with nasty thing. It's a vertical shaft, maybe a manhole chamber, but with giant steps every 7 feet or so. There's ladders to climb up to the next step, but there is a large amount of freezing water hitting you nonstop, soaking in seconds, that shock sets in in just a few steps up. 11 of these steps were counted before the leader turned back. We're tackling them Friday with some gear to try and keep the water off a little longer, along with an attempt to condition ourselves beforehand to avoid the shock, but it's still going to be difficult. So, my question is, has anyone else had any experience with such an forbidding foe?

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Crazyman 


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Re: Strange drain stairs...
<Reply # 1 on 7/7/2008 3:21 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Only in a Super Mario game...
Seriously, that looks really interesting-I'm not sure I've ever seen anything quite like that. However, it does look kinda familiar-is there always that much water, or is there a time it decreases enough to get some clearer pics? If I could see a little more of it, I'd know for sure if me or my friends have ever seen anything like this before...

I was thinking about how people seem to read the Bible a whole lot more as they get older; then it dawned on me - they're cramming for their final exam...
shotgun mario 


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Re: Strange drain stairs...
<Reply # 2 on 7/7/2008 4:45 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
i'm sure if I tried I can get a better pic (if taken from the side of the tunnel vs. the direct center), it's just that by the time we had tried to climb it, and decided it was not worth taking a 3rd attempt, we ran out of there hunched over just to get into some sunlight lol.

I will be certain to get some better pictures. I'm gonna try and shoot some video of it as well, because with that much water constantly coming down, pictures are always going to be a mess, so video would do a lot better of seeing around it all to the greater shot.

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If you want to make exploring friends, send people private messages! Meet up in real life! Get off the internet!
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programmer437 


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Re: Strange drain stairs...
<Reply # 3 on 7/7/2008 5:26 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
I've never seen anything like that.

I mean, I've seen an occasional vertical drop, but that's just ridiculous. I don't see why they'd possibly need to dig that deep.

Good luck tackling it; at least you have the steps instead of a vertical shaft.

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Nowl 






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Re: Strange drain stairs...
<Reply # 4 on 7/7/2008 5:58 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Draining is a bad idea while its raining.

programmer437 


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Re: Strange drain stairs...
<Reply # 5 on 7/7/2008 6:32 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by Nowl
Draining is a bad idea while its raining.


According to the diagram, it looks like the "rain" was coming from another pipe/tunnel.

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MIAD 


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Re: Strange drain stairs...
<Reply # 6 on 7/7/2008 7:34 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
There is a similar feature in Fortress drain in Sydney, except the water doesn't completely flow over the levels, and the ladder is a metal one through each floor, at each side. It is quite an unusual feature, I only know of the fortress one like it

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Re: Strange drain stairs...
<Reply # 7 on 7/7/2008 7:49 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 

u need one of those chinese rice field hats, the big ones and then seal it like an umbrella hat

then take a good photo so we can drool over it



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trent 

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Re: Strange drain stairs...
<Reply # 8 on 7/7/2008 12:27 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
I'm going to go out on a limb here. But I think I might know what that is... I might have seen similar pics and read about these. In some cities they have a really old drain system that's overloaded. So to fix problems with overflows and back ups, they bore massive tunnels in the bedrock well below the old system. This new system has a huge capacity and can handle almost any storm.

The way this works is that in the old system, at select points they have shafts that take of overflow and drop it off into the much larger capacity new tunnels. From what I've read, this is a common setup for a combined sewer. It's also my best guess that these shafts are designed to gently drop down the water. I'm not totally sure why, but possibly due to erosion concerns. Stepping the water down might be easier on the below system. Also, in that design, it also might prevent larger objects from falling down. For example, a tree won't fit. Though I doubt preventing trees is a main idea behind the design. (lol)

For what I am describing above to be plausible, the upper tunnel might be older and smaller than the below tunnel which is new and bigger.

If both the upper and lower tunnel are the same size and construction method, I would then be willing to instead bet that this shaft is still there to slowly lower the water, but this time it's not linking two drain systems, it's simply slowly lowering the water due to a big elevation change. E.g. they may not want to send the water rushing down a huge chute at high speed high might damage the system down stream. You might want to check some topography maps and see if in this location there is a drop off. If so that's why they *might* be using this shaft like this.

Or the designer really did like Mario and Donkey Kong, but it's probably just flow control.

Regardless I would love to see more pics and videos because these types of structures are very interesting. Best of luck. Seems like you found some very interesting drains.

-TR

He who rules the underground, rules the city above.
shotgun mario 


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Re: Strange drain stairs...
<Reply # 9 on 7/7/2008 3:36 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
first, I seem to need to provide just a bit more info that I didn't get clear across the first time:

What this is (i think) is a connection between a street-level drain and a lake-level drain. See, we're entering at the bottom of a ~80 foot cliff, and going in. The last drain that I was in at a cliff bottom kept fairly low underground, around 40-50 feet, and only went up a few feet at every manhole chamber. This is just a straight drop normally, but to cut down on erosion of such a great height, someone added 10+ alternating stairs to break the fall of the water.

http://shotgunmari...tairs_enlarged.JPG

Whether or not there is manhole access at the top of this shaft, I do not know, as the drain is in the middle of a large park along lake Michigan, and there is a woods/long grass field combination above it, so even finding a straight path that the drain follows is impossible.

The water coming out of the drain is constant. All of the drains in the area have a constant flow of water coming from them, probably just everyone's runoff combined, so that's where I'm (assuming) this is coming from. We never made it to the top of it... I really have no idea how tall it is.

As far as it being a deeper system, that it is not, but Milwaukee does have one of those, and I do know the general locations of where the drop shafts are to the deep tunnel (read more about it here: http://v2.mmsd.com...nelhowitworks.aspx)

But what MIAD is describing, a shaft found in Fortress, sounds exactly like what I have here. Perhaps my picture didn't explain it too well... every step has it's own ladder to the other one, and you have to transfer to that step to continue up. So your path of travel would look like this:

http://shotgunmari...om/stairs_path.JPG

Just climbing a ladder would be easy, but transferring between the concrete steps and the ladders back and forth is both dangerous and tiring, along with all of the water to slow you down. Everyone especially noted how difficult it became to breath with the cold water, and I myself hurt my right lung gasping for air after climbing. But it will be done!
[last edit 7/7/2008 3:39 PM by shotgun mario - edited 1 times]

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If you want to make exploring friends, send people private messages! Meet up in real life! Get off the internet!
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trent 

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Re: Strange drain stairs...
<Reply # 10 on 7/7/2008 4:32 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Well it looks like you know a great deal about your area and the systems it has. Also, everyone's hypothesis's seems to be rooted in logic.

If you're saying this enters into the lake, then odds are that it might not be a deep tunnel system like I was thinking (if your deep tunnel system leads to the treatment plant and not the lake). I think whatever you think it is, it probably is.

Though I wouldn't be surprised that at the top of it there might be more than one tunnel leading to that point. There might me multiple smaller storm sewers that merge there, drop down, and exit.

I don't know what else to say than go back and explore the hell out of it. And take many many pics because that's a really cool part of your drain and we all want to see more.

PS, I love your custom images. And that MMSD one I've added to my collection of general drain knowledge.

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SirJinx 


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Re: Strange drain stairs...
<Reply # 11 on 7/7/2008 5:54 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
That looks like a Helix drain system. Read about them at the Action Squad website. Check out the following links:

http://www.actionsquad.org/spiral.html



http://www.actionsquad.org/helix.html

Here's an excerpt:

At the end was the third and final spiral staircase, leading upward. This one was made of gravelly concrete, and had a drain channel spiral alongside of it, rather than water just running down the steps themselves.


Presumably, these staircases exist as a solution to the problems involved in getting large amounts of drain water down from shallow storm drainage systems to a deep level drain. If you simply drop it all straight down a huge vertical shaft, erosion is going to wipe out the bottom of the shaft. However, if you slow the descent by channeling the water around and around a spiral, the problem is solved.

[last edit 7/7/2008 5:55 PM by SirJinx - edited 1 times]

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SirJinx 


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Re: Strange drain stairs...
<Reply # 12 on 7/7/2008 5:56 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
By the way, you may not have a drain exactly like the Helix drain systems, but it's similar in design. Basically designed to keep water from an upper area from eroding the bottom chamber as it would if they just dumped water straight down the tunnel.

People are weird.
siologen 


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Re: Strange drain stairs...
<Reply # 13 on 7/7/2008 9:26 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Theres a drain in Mississauga Canada that has the same set up, but the steps are 10 meres wide, a meter deep and theres only 3 of them.





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matt31 


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Re: Strange drain stairs...
<Reply # 14 on 7/7/2008 11:25 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
May I ask, which park this is located in?

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shotgun mario 


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Re: Strange drain stairs...
<Reply # 15 on 7/8/2008 12:15 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
yea siologen, it's like that... only they're about 6 feet in diameter, 7 feet between them, and lots of them ;)

If you want to protect the locations you love to explore, don't talk about them online in public!
If you want to make exploring friends, send people private messages! Meet up in real life! Get off the internet!
Don't try to have a UER e-penis! You won't impress anyone! This especially means you, Minneapolis MN newbies!
junkyard 


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Re: Strange drain stairs...
<Reply # 16 on 7/8/2008 12:32 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Slows the water down to curb erosion after a 100 ft fall. Also the reason for the pit at the bottom. Otherwise they'd be fixing it every other year.

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RochesterUE 


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Re: Strange drain stairs...
<Reply # 17 on 7/8/2008 3:42 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Wow, I imagine the helix would be used when the distance needed is too great for a waterfall?

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junkyard 


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Re: Strange drain stairs...
<Reply # 18 on 7/8/2008 11:20 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
A helix is a great way to slow the water down a 100 ft fall. It doesn't fall at all, it just slides real fast. And if you are in one when it fills, you get your boots wet just before you get dead. Personal experience.

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metawaffle 

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Re: Strange drain stairs...
<Reply # 19 on 7/8/2008 11:28 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by junkyard
A helix is a great way to slow the water down a 100 ft fall. It doesn't fall at all, it just slides real fast. And if you are in one when it fills, you get your boots wet just before you get dead. Personal experience.


Care to elaborate with a horrifying anecdote?

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UER Forum > Archived Rookie Forum > Strange drain stairs... (Viewed 1455 times)
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