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UER Forum > Archived Forum Announcements > Hosting options moving forward? Your opinion... (Viewed 1688 times)
cjb 


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Re: Hosting options moving forward? Your opinion...
<Reply # 40 on 2/10/2007 5:00 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
I think the current hosting is pretty decent, We haven't had so many problems up to now , and the speed is almost always good and reliable. So I would say stick with the current host.

http://www.magazin...dossiers/index.htm
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Re: Hosting options moving forward? Your opinion...
<Reply # 41 on 2/10/2007 6:56 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by Avatar-X


Well, first, there is a huge difference between this community website and your personal website. I ask for donations because this site is by the people, for the people, and it makes sense that the people should (if they can) pay a small part in hosting it.

Second, you obviously don't know what a "donation" is -- a donation is giving without an expected return. If you expect something in return when you donate, that's not a donation, that's a purchase.

With that said, those who do donate DO get something in return -- they know that they have contributed to keeping UER online for at least another month.



UER is far more advanced than a basic hosting plan could offer. UER requires a dedicated server due to the large MySQL database (1.5gb) and plethora of custom plugins and apps that run on the box.

-av



Posted by el nerdo


Just ignore the naysayers. Everyone thinks they know better than you.
Very few people who don't know you intimately (not that way, you fucking pervs!) really don't understand what you've put into this place.



I don't think $5 a month to be a full member is unreasonable. How many full members have even given a $12 in the year, a dollar a month?
As for what Av does with it is his own concern.
This is a loosely censored site that's fun to play in, with no advertising, and no spammers.

How many hours do you think Av puts in a year here?
How much does a programmer make an hour?
How many of you work for free?


I don't think the current server is a bad deal at all from what I hear here. It's not near as vexing an issue as members being Jack Benny chinsey with donations. Av should have a reserve left at the end of each month without having to beg like it's a PBS fest. UER provides much better entertainment.

Even non-profit charities often PAY their upper management. Av should get a couple extra bucks to buy some take-out food to eat while he's slaving over the UER site. Without having to explain why he did it.

Jeeeeesze...is $1 @ month too much?



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Re: Hosting options moving forward? Your opinion...
<Reply # 42 on 2/10/2007 7:13 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by blackhawk
How many hours do you think Av puts in a year here?
How much does a programmer make an hour?
How many of you work for free?

Uhh, I dont think AV would have charged himself to make the site, thats how it usually works. I know I work for myself..for free....


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Re: Hosting options moving forward? Your opinion...
<Reply # 43 on 2/10/2007 7:27 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by Crazydeep74

Uhh, I dont think AV would have charged himself to make the site, thats how it usually works. I know I work for myself..for free....



That argument only applies if you are making the site solely for your own use.

I'm not expecting people to pay for my time; all I ask is that occasionally you throw a few bucks my way to help pay for the hosting, something I cannot afford on my own.

-av

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Re: Hosting options moving forward? Your opinion...
<Reply # 44 on 2/10/2007 9:09 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
I currently use:

lmservers.com

for my site:

I'm charged only $15/month for large amounts of space, databases, transfers, etc
and all I have to do with a problem is hit the fella up on aim and its resolved immediately!

or.. godaddy.com for supercheap massive amounts but large corporation..


go with lmservers!


myspace.com/ohm909
Panic! 

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Re: Hosting options moving forward? Your opinion...
<Reply # 45 on 2/10/2007 9:22 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by Avatar-X


Well, first, there is a huge difference between this community website and your personal website. I ask for donations because this site is by the people, for the people, and it makes sense that the people should (if they can) pay a small part in hosting it.

Second, you obviously don't know what a "donation" is -- a donation is giving without an expected return. If you expect something in return when you donate, that's not a donation, that's a purchase.

With that said, those who do donate DO get something in return -- they know that they have contributed to keeping UER online for at least another month.

UER is far more advanced than a basic hosting plan could offer. UER requires a dedicated server due to the large MySQL database (1.5gb) and plethora of custom plugins and apps that run on the box.

-av


Sign, I am just SO fucking tired of Av making personal comments about people, myself included, when our opinions differ with his.

Look, when it comes down to it this thread is redundant. Our opinions do not count. Av will do what he decides is best for him. And I'm not saying that in a negative way. I'm just saying that the bottom line is that he will make up his own mind based on his own opinions and what is the most cost effective for him.

From a technical point of view there are not many differences between this site and mine. Both use up large amounts of storage space, both use up large amounts of bandwidth. Unlike this site I do not have an expectation that visitors to my site should pay for the hosting of my site, well up to now I have not.



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Re: Hosting options moving forward? Your opinion...
<Reply # 46 on 2/10/2007 9:37 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by Panic!
Sign, I am just SO fucking tired of Av making personal comments about people, myself included, when our opinions differ with his.


Excuse me? You are the one who brought up donations and your personal website. I merely responded to it, pointing out that your ideas of donations is actually purchase, and that your website is not the same as UER.

Look, when it comes down to it this thread is redundant


Um, if I didn't want to know what people thought, why would I have started this thread in the first place?

just saying that the bottom line is that he will make up his own mind based on his own opinions and what is the most cost effective for him.


Are you suggesting it should be any other way? Why would I not make a decision based on my personal opinions? Who'se opinions should I listen to, if not my own aswell?

From a technical point of view there are not many differences between this site and mine.


From a "technical" point of view, any two sites could be said to be the same. I doubt you have 20,000 members that hammer the shit out of the server on your site, however. Our sites are nothing alike in any way -- your site is a personal "blog" and gallery site, and UER is a community forum and database.




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Re: Hosting options moving forward? Your opinion...
<Reply # 47 on 2/10/2007 11:18 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by blackhawk
I don't think $5 a month to be a full member is unreasonable. How many full members have even given a $12 in the year, a dollar a month?


The whole idea of the full member system was to prevent vandals and thieves from accessing sensitive locations. Paying to be a full member would definitely go against the philosophy of the system.

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Re: Hosting options moving forward? Your opinion...
<Reply # 48 on 2/10/2007 11:19 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by Panic!
Sign, I am just SO fucking tired of Av making personal comments about people, myself included, when our opinions differ with his.


Panic, why don't you fucking leave then?

Go bitch and moan somewhere else.
The people who complain, yourself included, don't have the ability to make a site anywhere near as unique or customized as this one.

Go bite the hand that feeds you somewhere else.


cjb 


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Re: Hosting options moving forward? Your opinion...
<Reply # 49 on 2/10/2007 11:21 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
I agree with Av, urbanadventure.org definetly receives much less traffic than uer.ca, which implies more bandwith, more ressources, and of course, more fees.

I donated to uer.ca in the past, and probably will again in the future ( When my student's loans will be lower..). I never asked (or cared) where that money would go. I think Av , from an objective point of view, always did a great job running this site and I never felt he used the donation system to make any money.

And I don't really understand the logic between giving money and becoming a part-time owner of this site. Just like the name says, they are DONATIONS, not stocks or options for Uer.ca .
If you GIVE money, you shouldn't expect anything in return, except maybe a fully operationnal website and community. If you don't like giving, then fine, as far as I know uer is free for everyone and Av never forced anyone to give money. This is a non-debate (one of the main bandwith usage of uer.ca) .

http://www.magazin...dossiers/index.htm
blackhawk 

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Re: Hosting options moving forward? Your opinion...
<Reply # 50 on 2/10/2007 11:39 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by stealthy


The whole idea of the full member system was to prevent vandals and thieves from accessing sensitive locations. Paying to be a full member would definitely go against the philosophy of the system.


What philosophy?

I don't think a few green backs will corrupt Av or this site.
Some more money in the kitty would be a good thing; nothing's for free. People should put their money were their keystrokes are.


Really people

is $1 @ month too much ask?

Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
cjb 


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Re: Hosting options moving forward? Your opinion...
<Reply # 51 on 2/10/2007 11:55 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by blackhawk


What philosophy?

I don't think a few green backs will corrupt Av or this site.
Some more money in the kitty would be a good thing; nothing's for free. People should put their money were their keystrokes are.





I don't see the point of doing this, the donation target has always been reached since it's been implemented, which means the hosting fees have always been mostly paid by the users. UER is not a company nor is its goal to do money off its users. Why should UER " do" money?

http://www.magazin...dossiers/index.htm
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Re: Hosting options moving forward? Your opinion...
<Reply # 52 on 2/11/2007 12:08 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by cjb
I don't see the point of doing this, the donation target has always been reached since it's been implemented


Please note that I am not soliciting donations right now. I am asking what you guys would have done in a similar situation, and what I should do going forward.

huskies - such fluff.
blackhawk 

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Re: Hosting options moving forward? Your opinion...
<Reply # 53 on 2/11/2007 12:10 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by cjb


I don't see the point of doing this, the donation target has always been reached since it's been implemented, which means the hosting fees have always been mostly paid by the users. UER is not a company nor is its goal to do money off its users. Why should UER " do" money?


Long story, but free sites spook me; nothing is free.

Equipment cost money; how would you feel if the whole data base was lost? Including all your PMs and posts? What other site is this much fun? A few bucks a year from the full members would give Av more options, and less headaches.


Really people

is $1 @ month too much ask?

Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
cjb 


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Re: Hosting options moving forward? Your opinion...
<Reply # 54 on 2/11/2007 12:22 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by Avatar-X


Please note that I am not soliciting donations right now. I am asking what you guys would have done in a similar situation, and what I should do going forward.


I know Av, I was responding to blackhawk.
As I said earlier, I think we should stick to the current host. It's not so bad and fairly cheap. It's the first major outage in more than a year, and it was solved with 48hours, and nothing was lost.
It's not like we needed a top notch server neither, it's only an online community. Let's not get crazy with it. The response time is really good and the speed is nice too.

And blackhawk, just like I said before, the donation system already covers most of the hosting fees. Why more money? Av is not running www.google.com or www.microsoft.com , the current server is really doing a fine job.
Has anyone really experienced latency issues? lagging? I doubt so. Well anyway that was my opinion.

http://www.magazin...dossiers/index.htm
Panic! 

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Re: Hosting options moving forward? Your opinion...
<Reply # 55 on 2/11/2007 2:59 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by Avatar-X
Are you suggesting it should be any other way? Why would I not make a decision based on my personal opinions? Who'se opinions should I listen to, if not my own aswell?


No, I mean yeah, that's the way you should do it. In the end it's your choice, and it should be your choice. I'n not opposed to that in any way.


[last edit 2/11/2007 3:00 AM by Panic! - edited 1 times]

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Re: Hosting options moving forward? Your opinion...
<Reply # 56 on 2/11/2007 4:45 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Oh jesus........

Go with them:
http://geocities.y...ItWorks4_Free.html


Ok but really.....

Stick with 1&1. Moving is going to be a much bigger head ache. If you want to try going for a discount, go for it... Honestly though IMO you'll be wasting your time trying. When a company gets that big, they forget that YOU are the reason for that, and they'll be very unlikely to give you that discount that you want. I remember when 1&1 had HELPFUL ENGLISH SPEAKING support. If you call them now, they outsource you to india who will try to remotely help you. They'll jerk you around for an hour until they decide to tell you its a hardware issue and transfer(hangup) you over to the USA's datacenter in NY, to a craigslist hired level -1 tech support agent to help you... Atleast they speak english.

Now... I don't want you to think im ripping on 1&1.... I'm just ripping on their terrible support. What MIGHT help you is to find a contact, get their number and name, and stick with them. Thats what i have been doing with FDC and what i did for awhile with 1&1, and that worked GREAT. Your more likely to get help out of someone who knows you as a regular then someone who doesn't know you at all. I made friends with my Tech contact at FDC. I send him joke e-mails, and give him discounts at circuit city. What did that get me? Free managed firewall, and a FREE upgrade to a 1gbit line. Pretty good in my opinion.

Well thats my 2cents on 1&1.. To recap and give you a straight to the point summmery:
Stay with 1&1. If your up for a long battle, ask for a discount. Try to make a USEFUL friend or two at 1&1. It will go a LONG way.

Now... My 2cents on getting your OWN server. I want you to tell me something...

You'll want your own server if you have a VERY specific hardware setup that you need that your datacenter cannot set up for you. Special raid configureations, maybe a remote serial port, or redundent motherboards and power supplys.. Why you would need all this except for maybe the raid for UER? I have no clue.
You should know that mostly all datacenters will not touch your server though unless it is to replace a power supply that YOU supply for them. Colos are also just as expensive as leased servers in most cases as well, unless 1. You buy space in bulk, or 2. you have connections or are well versed in the hosting business and know of local datacenters that let YOU manage your servers.

If you absolutly need all of the above and don't mind putting up with all the hassle that i just mentioned, then get yourself on the phone with Dell, HP, CDW, ect and get yourself your server, then PM me for some good colo centers.

Otherwise, if you feel that you don't need any of the above and would rather not have to manage all of that, keep reading...

You'll want to lease a server, if you don't need a very specific hardware config. Most datacenters will be happy to set up RAID for an extra setup charge, and any other simple hardware/software customizations you want. Leasing a server has very good benifits. You don't need to really pay all that much more to lease then colo. Infact sometimes it's free. If not then it's usually just a one time extra $100 fee. On top of that, like most leased equiptment, you have a VERY good warrenty on it. If something breaks... lets say a CPU fries on the box, the datacenter is MUCH more likely to go and replace that FREE OF CHARGE if it's their box then if it was your own.

OK... now for my opinion on what you should do. DON'T buy a server. Stick with a leased server. UER doesn't need it's own server. Getting your own server is going to be a nice big waste of funds and resources. And if time is something you are short on, your going to be pooring more time into your own server then you will be into a leased server..



OK... So for my final recap...:

- Stick with 1&1, keep an eye out for better hosts though.
- If it's worth the time that your going to spend(alot). Try getting a discount.
- Make a useful friend at 1&1.
- DON'T get a server. Stick with leased. See if you can request hardware changes, that will still be covered under the hardware management of the datacenter staff.



I hope that helps.




And Av, i don't want this to be taken the wrong way by yourself or anyone on this website but Why are you asking a Urban Exploration community their opinions on something that they have absolutely no clue what they are talking about? Half the people in this thread are just talking out of their ass, thinking that their common sence is the best technical advise in the world. Although I do need to say though that some of the people here really know their shit. They know who they are, and i hope you know who they are as well av.

If you want a well informed opinion, try going over to a website like www.webhostingtalk.com and asking them. I'm sure you will get a much better response out of that. Once you know you technical options, come back here and ask the community in a more simplfied way.
[last edit 2/11/2007 4:57 AM by DeMiNe0 - edited 1 times]

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Re: Hosting options moving forward? Your opinion...
<Reply # 57 on 2/11/2007 5:05 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
And just to add to Panic's and Av's.... Discussion...

Like i commented in your own thread Panic, I think AV has every right to *ASK* for donations... Infact... He has every right to Demand a paid subscription to go on *HIS* personal website. One thing that people often overlook though... YOU.. the USER have every right to NOT donate, or NOT to pay his demanded subscription price.

Avatar in this case requires no subscription to view his site. He runs a site out of his own pocket that acts as a RESOURCE to over people looking to find other people and information about urban exploration. He has every right to ask for a buck or 2 to help his support these costs.

As the owner of a community that is Just as large, or even larger then UER, you can take it from me, when i say that Avatar has sacrificed ALOT to make sure the people here at UER stay happy.

As far as expecting some type of say in how the site is ran, when you donate.... Sure... It would be nice to have your opinion considered, but in all reality, i'm not going to change the entire structor of my site just because you decided to donate a measly $50. You'll get your acnoldgement, and public praise in that you donated to the site, and your extra fun little features. Thats all. You won't get your little administrative say, you won't get moderator, you won't even get full member status. You didn't purchase the site... You DONATED.


[last edit 2/11/2007 5:23 AM by DeMiNe0 - edited 1 times]

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Re: Hosting options moving forward? Your opinion...
<Reply # 58 on 2/11/2007 7:27 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by stealthy


The whole idea of the full member system was to prevent vandals and thieves from accessing sensitive locations. Paying to be a full member would definitely go against the philosophy of the system.


Dont forget the police detectives also!

How much would it cost to build the setup (spec wise) that the 1&1 people have? What does their server cost to build? Out of curiousity.

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Re: Hosting options moving forward? Your opinion...
<Reply # 59 on 2/11/2007 7:32 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Their servers cost around 1grand. They don't use the best equipment. They use what is nessary to run the site to minimize costs.

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UER Forum > Archived Forum Announcements > Hosting options moving forward? Your opinion... (Viewed 1688 times)
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