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UER Forum > Archived Rookie Forum > Legality: UE photos as evidence of your tresspassing? (Viewed 1410 times)
io organic industrialism 






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Legality: UE photos as evidence of your tresspassing?
< on 11/20/2006 3:36 PM >
Posted on Forum: Infiltration Forums
 
I am an amateur urban explorer. I have done a couple of "missions" over the past 7 or 8 years, but only recently taken up the photography end of it.

There is a hydroelectric dam facility that is being torn down by my city. They have barb-wired off the entire thing. I found a way to get in and I went in and took a bunch of pictures and plan on making a website to document the deconstruction of the facility with periodic updates.

My question is... publishing these photos is basically evidence that i tresspassed.

What are the legal ramifications of this?

Does anybody here have any experience with getting caught online and then having any charges pressed on you?

Tyralus 


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Re: Legality: UE photos as evidence of your tresspassing?
<Reply # 1 on 11/20/2006 5:17 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
If you feel the location is high risk, don't share the photos publically. If it's low risk, go ahead.

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Re: Legality: UE photos as evidence of your tresspassing?
<Reply # 2 on 11/20/2006 7:38 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
i am involved in a trespassing case currently, they confiscated my friend's camera and are using the pictures as evidence. nothing besides interior shots featuring my friends and i, but the police seem to think that it was enough.
i talked about it on my other post in the rookie forum. you should highly consider who will be viewing the site and if you're going to identify where and when the photos were taken. also if you're going to put your name on the site.

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yokes 


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Re: Legality: UE photos as evidence of your tresspassing?
<Reply # 3 on 11/20/2006 8:08 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
If you get caught leaving a site with your camera, and it has photos of you inside the building, I'd say they'll be used against you in a court of law. They have what they need, as best I can tell, a date and location. Seems open and shut.

The question is if they can use images pulled, for example, off a web site to nab you at some date in the future afterwards. In this case, they have the location, but they may or may not have a date (EXIF can be modified, and scans have no date other than the creation). Basically, the chain of custody has been broken. I believe they need both a date and location to press charges.

"Great architecture has only two natural enemies: water and stupid men." - Richard Nickel
io organic industrialism 






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Re: Legality: UE photos as evidence of your tresspassing?
<Reply # 4 on 11/20/2006 10:23 PM >
Posted on Forum: Infiltration Forums
 
damn, i was planning on being very scientific about it and posting the exact dates each set of pictures is taken. it will take them 1 year to do the entire deconstruction (it has only just begun and so far everything is pretty much how it was before they put up the barb wire fence).

it seems pretty low risk however. it's not a manned facility, i won't be harming it... and what would be the point of them pressing charges after the fact when the whole thing will be gone from the earth anyway?

the web site site will also include historical info about the site (as much as we can find. there was already a newspaper article about it). i think it will be worth it to post publically because i think it's an important part of our historical and industrial heritage. supposedly ben franklin or somebody helped design the thing


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Re: Legality: UE photos as evidence of your tresspassing?
<Reply # 5 on 11/20/2006 10:25 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Do the place anyways. Get us pictures.

We must also go out and meet the enemy before he reaches our shores. We must defeat him before he attacks us, before our cities are laid to waste.

William Lyon Mackenzie King, Prime Minister of Canada from 1921-1926, 1926-1930 and 1935-1948
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Re: Legality: UE photos as evidence of your tresspassing?
<Reply # 6 on 11/20/2006 10:39 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
I really wouldnt worry about it personally, they dont have a special taskforce out for us so.



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Re: Legality: UE photos as evidence of your tresspassing?
<Reply # 7 on 11/20/2006 10:53 PM >
Posted on Forum: Infiltration Forums
 
a couple of teasers then ...

a view of the entire complex from the train tracks on a hill


the inside of the old burned out building. you can see this building in the upper right in the first pic


the actual dam which is adjacent to the old burned out building


more on the way along with historical info and my account of the missions in a couple of weeks once we get the website live



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Re: Legality: UE photos as evidence of your tresspassing?
<Reply # 8 on 11/20/2006 10:56 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Thank you, keep us updated here.

We must also go out and meet the enemy before he reaches our shores. We must defeat him before he attacks us, before our cities are laid to waste.

William Lyon Mackenzie King, Prime Minister of Canada from 1921-1926, 1926-1930 and 1935-1948
Corporal_Clegg 


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Re: Legality: UE photos as evidence of your tresspassing?
<Reply # 9 on 11/20/2006 11:01 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
When was the place built?

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io organic industrialism 






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Re: Legality: UE photos as evidence of your tresspassing?
<Reply # 10 on 11/20/2006 11:13 PM >
Posted on Forum: Infiltration Forums
 
ok i was wrong about ben franklin (that's why i said "or something") because it was built around 1900 i think. well, the old part at least (the old burned out building, and the dam).
will double check the newspaper article when i get home.

the white building in the middle is noticably newer and i'm not really sure about when it was built. it wasn't mentioned in the paper.

[last edit 11/20/2006 11:15 PM by io organic industrialism - edited 1 times]

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Re: Legality: UE photos as evidence of your tresspassing?
<Reply # 11 on 11/21/2006 12:02 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Strip the EXIM data off the photo's, and try not to post dates. Also when you post them on your website, post in third person, and don't reference to authors or posters/contributors.

This isn't a garenteed way to not get caught, but *might* help.

I'm no lawyer or law enforcement expert so don't take my advise to heart.


Now from a technical expert point of view:
If by some rare chance they do end up asking for logs, and what not of file transfers, http logs, ect, you have the right to say no, unless they have a warrent... If they have a warrant, say you don't know how to get the logs, and say you have no clue who to go to to get the logs. More then likely if they contact your host, (which they will need to provide ANOTHER warrant for) that host won't have detailed enough logs for them... (unless they run apache in debug mode.. which is rare..)

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io organic industrialism 






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Re: Legality: UE photos as evidence of your tresspassing?
<Reply # 12 on 11/21/2006 2:24 AM >
Posted on Forum: Infiltration Forums
 
ok, it was Thomas Edison. he and some other inventor guy invested $50,000 in it. it was built in 1897

P.S. i don't know much about photography. how do the pics look? i don't have my own camera, so i had to borrow my girlfriend's. it's some kind of cheap handicam i guess for making asf videos, but it also takes 6 megapixel stills. no optical zoom though a lot of my pictures came out blurry and overexposed. any tips on settings or anything i can do to get them to look better with my current technological limitations? i'd like to get my own camera sometime but it will be a while till i can afford it

[last edit 11/21/2006 2:26 AM by io organic industrialism - edited 1 times]

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Re: Legality: UE photos as evidence of your tresspassing?
<Reply # 13 on 11/24/2006 8:02 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
I personally wouldn't worry too much about pictures being used against you in this situation. Afterall, they are tearing it down. Also, I wouldn't post any pictures of YOU inside the place. Thats just my personal opinion, though.

'Our plans are all laid out,
take all these unmarked roads,
we blaze the trails to places no one goes, yeah!' -Rise Against
blackhawk 

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Re: Legality: UE photos as evidence of your tresspassing?
<Reply # 14 on 11/25/2006 1:49 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
DHS is what you have to fear. That's in the US, NY, right? DHS won't care about the old hydro (which by the way is way cool!), they will however be all over your shit if you breach an active drinking water treatment facility! If so have a mod pull the pics.

That fence looks like they mean business. The feds can lean on you real hard if they please, till they squeeze out your toothpaste. If the dam and old building aren't in the fenced area, it's prolly ok to explore to your heart's content.

Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
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Re: Legality: UE photos as evidence of your tresspassing?
<Reply # 15 on 11/25/2006 5:53 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Having photographs of a location which requires trespassing to access, even in your camera, is not evidence of the camera's owner trespassing. If you are present in the photographs you will have one hell of a hard time explaining that. Also if the timestamps are incorrect, for example they say June 1 1372 when it is actually may 3 2006, your case will be better off. I can't imagine any good prosecutor taking you to court on charges of trespassing simply because of your own photos without corroborating evidence. Good internet security protocol always helps, use tor, proxies, etc if you are truly concerned about somebody tracking you down.

Damn Legal Notice:
I am not responsible for your actions, even if my negligence resulted in those actions. I offer no guarantee of validity or accuracy of my claims. I offer no legal council.

Soho
[last edit 11/25/2006 6:33 AM by Soho - edited 1 times]

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Re: Legality: UE photos as evidence of your tresspassing?
<Reply # 16 on 11/26/2006 11:49 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Also if you do post pictures in the galleries here, you can always change the date.
On a couple major locations that I have posted in I made the date 00-00-000


We must also go out and meet the enemy before he reaches our shores. We must defeat him before he attacks us, before our cities are laid to waste.

William Lyon Mackenzie King, Prime Minister of Canada from 1921-1926, 1926-1930 and 1935-1948
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Re: Legality: UE photos as evidence of your tresspassing?
<Reply # 17 on 12/9/2006 6:17 PM >
Posted on Forum: Infiltration Forums
 
The only thing about pulling it off your website is that the "crime" has already happened and the statute of limitations has more than likely passed. If you're worried wait a bit after it's been destroyed and then post them.

The only crime that has no time limit on when you can be arrested is murder. I'm sure you could google your states time limit for arrest on a crime.


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Re: Legality: UE photos as evidence of your tresspassing?
<Reply # 18 on 12/9/2006 6:49 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
hey, if the pictures are on the internet, they have no idea if you actually took them, and if no ones in it, they can't do a thing about it. all they know is that someone was there a took pictures

DrranXCore 


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Re: Legality: UE photos as evidence of your tresspassing?
<Reply # 19 on 12/9/2006 8:41 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
exactly, them seeing a picture that you said you took isn't enough evidence to take any action

UER Forum > Archived Rookie Forum > Legality: UE photos as evidence of your tresspassing? (Viewed 1410 times)
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