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Server Time:
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 yoviher
 
Location: Puerto Rico
 |  | Re: Advise for abandoned oil refinery?
<Reply # 20 on 9/27/2006 1:00 AM >
|  | | | Ok. I'm gonna go in the second week of October when my dad will be in a business trip abroad, so I will have the car all for myself. I'm trying to convince one of my more mature friends to accompany me. I wasn't thinking that much on fumes, but I was worried that the place is basically metal thats been corroding for the past two and a half decade, and the place is so big that if I fall through four roofs and get severely injured, they'll find my body within a decade.
And since it seems that if I don't post the pictures I'm gonna have a UER.ca sponsored lynch mob at my door, I'll post them. 
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blackhawk
  
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
Location: Mission Control
UER newbie
| |  | Re: Advise for abandoned oil refinery?
<Reply # 21 on 9/27/2006 1:39 AM >
| | | | Don't trust steel that's anchored into concrete; walkways and brackets. It can look solid until it gives way without warning because the fasteners are corroded through. No way to see the hidden corrosion. Not fun, I almost was crushed by several cast iron pipes like that.
Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
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Pravus
Location: Chicago Area
Gender: Male
Now the two key words for tonight - "caution" and "flammable"...
| |  |  | Re: Advise for abandoned oil refinery?
<Reply # 22 on 9/27/2006 6:39 AM >
| | | | watch your step, go slow, and keep yer ears open for sounds of shifting or mushy footing.. Also I recommend you and yer buddy (if you don't go alone) stay far enough apart so if you fall through something you don't take him with you, but close enough where he will be able to react fast enough to help you out if needed and possible..
Live to Serve, Serve to Live.. |
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minusonebit
Location: Oklahoma City, OK, United States
Gender: Male
Will Explore for Food
| |  |  | | | Re: Advise for abandoned oil refinery?
<Reply # 23 on 9/27/2006 5:13 PM >
| | | | I dont think that anything they use in refining of oil is that dangerous chemically. Avoid the temptation to take a bath in an open tank. Dont taste the liquids and avoid breathing any strong odors if possible. If you feel light headed or dizzy, leave the area at once.
Oh yes, and dont go alone. This is not a place to explore by yourself because if you do get hurt, no one is going to find you until its far too late and its far too big for anyone to hear your cries for help. This is also not a place to explore with twenty or more of your closest friends. The noise made by large groups of people will drown out any tell-tale signs that a catwalk is about to give way, not to mention, the strain of many persons standing on it is not good. And, furthermore, if a huge group of people get hurt out there, its gonna bring a huge amount of heat on the location. The government may not have the money to take it down, but they will have the money to put a 24hr guard on it and fence it off real good with razor wire.
Take one to three people with you and be sensible about it. It has been my personal experience that anymore than five people is always a bad idea in at site, and more than three is a bad idea at sites where there is some actual security.
Now finally, if you tell me where its at and are interested in doing so, I'll book a flight out there sometime around december to "help" you explore it after I see your pics. I have been known to travel to explore holy grails. 
Commit a Random Act of Exploration. |
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blackhawk
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
Location: Mission Control
UER newbie
| | | Re: Advise for abandoned oil refinery?
<Reply # 24 on 9/27/2006 5:28 PM >
| | | | Posted by minusonebit
I dont think that anything they use in refining of oil is that dangerous chemically. Avoid the temptation to take a bath in an open tank. Dont taste the liquids and avoid breathing any strong odors if possible. If you feel light headed or dizzy, leave the area at once.
Oh yes, and dont go alone. This is not a place to explore by yourself because if you do get hurt, no one is going to find you until its far too late and its far too big for anyone to hear your cries for help. This is also not a place to explore with twenty or more of your closest friends. The noise made by large groups of people will drown out any tell-tale signs that a catwalk is about to give way, not to mention, the strain of many persons standing on it is not good. And, furthermore, if a huge group of people get hurt out there, its gonna bring a huge amount of heat on the location. The government may not have the money to take it down, but they will have the money to put a 24hr guard on it and fence it off real good with razor wire.
Take one to three people with you and be sensible about it. It has been my personal experience that anymore than five people is always a bad idea in at site, and more than three is a bad idea at sites where there is some actual security.
Now finally, if you tell me where its at and are interested in doing so, I'll book a flight out there sometime around december to "help" you explore it after I see your pics. I have been known to travel to explore holy grails.
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There are plenty of dangerous chemicals at a refinery, make no mistake of that. When fasteners break there's no warning, just falling steel. If your on it, or in it's way....your taking the ride. Groups of people tend to distract each other as well as draw attention. Even at a site like this I rather be alone.
Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
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kjohnnytarr
Location: Columbia, Missouri
Gender: Male
Team Asbestos: CoMO
| | | Re: Advise for abandoned oil refinery?
<Reply # 25 on 9/27/2006 6:00 PM >
| | | | Posted by blackhawk
There are plenty of dangerous chemicals at a refinery, make no mistake of that. When fasteners break there's no warning, just falling steel. If your on it, or in it's way....your taking the ride. Groups of people tend to distract each other as well as draw attention. Even at a site like this I rather be alone.
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I'm surprised to see you say you'd rather go alone, right after acknowleging the dangers of collapsing walkways and chemichals. I'm not saying I'd go with a group - I agree with you there - but I'd never explore a place like that (except if it was just from the ground) without a partner. I can't help but imagine Arron Ralston type scenarios.
It seemed like a good idea at the time... |
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blackhawk
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
Location: Mission Control
UER newbie
| | | Re: Advise for abandoned oil refinery?
<Reply # 26 on 9/27/2006 6:59 PM >
| | | | Posted by kjohnnytarr
I'm surprised to see you say you'd rather go alone, right after acknowleging the dangers of collapsing walkways and chemichals. I'm not saying I'd go with a group - I agree with you there - but I'd never explore a place like that (except if it was just from the ground) without a partner. I can't help but imagine Arron Ralston type scenarios.
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I explore alone most the time. It's all how you handle yourself, and have gone to sites as, if not more dangerous than refineries by myself. You learn to relie on yourself; only you can make mistakes, and there's no liability for others mistakes. Smaller seems less threatening, means a less noticeable profile, no talking and less noise, move at yor own speed, no distractions mean less mistakes and more pictures.
Worry more about incurring a permanent injury than having instant help. Worry more about preventing serious injury, than preventing death because the line between the two is a thin one. I've been exploring like this since I was a little kid and feel very comfortable on my own.
Don't do this if it doesn't seem right to you; develope, and learn to trust your own judgement.
Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
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iq72EfX
Location: Fond du Lac, Wisconsin
Gender: Male
UE in a question mark suit since '05
| | Re: Advise for abandoned oil refinery?
<Reply # 27 on 9/28/2006 2:05 AM >
| | | | I talked to a friend who has been in the oil refinery business for about 20 years. He is an engineer for a refinery, and his father owned an oil business. Here's what he said in regards to chemicals:
"hydroflouric acid, benzene, sulfer, high concentrations of all those, plus h2s, radioactive materials and risks. Heavy metals just to name a few of the risks. Not to mention high asbestos risks on piping insulation and structural insulation."
Here's what wikipedia said about hydroflouric acid:
"Symptoms of skin exposure to dilute HF are not felt immediately, but exposure of less than 10% of the body to it can be fatal, even with immediate medical treatment. Highly concentrated solutions may lead to acute hypocalcemia, followed by cardiac arrest and death, and will usually be fatal in as little as 2% body exposure (about the size of the sole of the foot). This substance is extremely toxic and has the capacity to kill upon exposure rather than simply damage skin and eyes. It should be handled with extreme care, beyond that given to hydrochloric, sulfuric, or other mineral acids."
"If it were me, I would not go even with knowledge of refining. Just too many risks of what could be around. If you do go, watch your wind direction and try to stay up wind of open vessels etc. Don't open any hatches etc as some materials are pyroforic."
Pyroforic= ignites with contact to air.
"depending on the area we go it ranges from chemical pants coats gloves and boots with faces sheilds being the least. To fully sealed suits with a regulated constant air line being worst case."
Ouch.
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blackhawk
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
Location: Mission Control
UER newbie
| | | Re: Advise for abandoned oil refinery?
<Reply # 28 on 9/28/2006 2:48 AM >
| | | | Posted by iq72EfX
I talked to a friend who has been in the oil refinery business for about 20 years. He is an engineer for a refinery, and his father owned an oil business. Here's what he said in regards to chemicals:
"hydroflouric acid, benzene, sulfer, high concentrations of all those, plus h2s, radioactive materials and risks. Heavy metals just to name a few of the risks. Not to mention high asbestos risks on piping insulation and structural insulation."
Here's what wikipedia said about hydroflouric acid:
"Symptoms of skin exposure to dilute HF are not felt immediately, but exposure of less than 10% of the body to it can be fatal, even with immediate medical treatment. Highly concentrated solutions may lead to acute hypocalcemia, followed by cardiac arrest and death, and will usually be fatal in as little as 2% body exposure (about the size of the sole of the foot). This substance is extremely toxic and has the capacity to kill upon exposure rather than simply damage skin and eyes. It should be handled with extreme care, beyond that given to hydrochloric, sulfuric, or other mineral acids."
"If it were me, I would not go even with knowledge of refining. Just too many risks of what could be around. If you do go, watch your wind direction and try to stay up wind of open vessels etc. Don't open any hatches etc as some materials are pyroforic."
Pyroforic= ignites with contact to air.
"depending on the area we go it ranges from chemical pants coats gloves and boots with faces sheilds being the least. To fully sealed suits with a regulated constant air line being worst case."
Ouch.
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It's very unlikely any acids will be present unless he breaks something, opens at valve, ect. As far hydrofloouric acid, while it's little monster, it's main threat is untreated burns as once the skin is ezposed conventional rinsing may not nuetralize it; it will keep going to the bone. Death is rare from skin absorbtion though. Caustics are far more common, and the effects are rapid. There are also lead additives which can poison on contact with skin; these are prolly worse, and more likelty to still be there if left there. Asbestos is everywhere; just don't go ripping insulation, or kicking up dust. Radioactive shit is not a concern if your not screwing with the equipment.
As with all chemical plants, use best judgement as to air quality, keep hands anyway from eyes at all times, aviod eating, don't touch any liquida or residues, never open valves, never "crack" open strange gas cylinders(especially the pretty pink ones)
I pay money to get into that place, way cool.
Not to worry Yoviher, watch were your walking, and follow the "do not do list" and you'll be fine. Always bring at least 1 quart of water, preferably more. A wet rag with some Windex on it in a plastic bag is good for clean-up of hands and equipment if needed. After you leave put ALL your clothes in a bag, boots too, and double wash everything later, and hose the boots down for good measure. Shower.
Don't believe everything in Wiki, I like the Merck Index. This is a good summsry, though not from Merck:
EMERGENCY OVERVIEW:
A COLORLESS, FUMING LIQUID WITH A SHARP, PUNGENT ODOR. CAUSES SEVERE BURNS TO
SKIN AND EYES. MAY BE FATAL IF INHALED OR SWALLOWED. NOT FLAMMABLE.
POTENTIAL HEALTH HAZARDS:
SKIN:
BOTH LIQUID AND VAPOR CAN CAUSE SEVERE BURNS WHICH MAY NOT BE IMMEDIATELY
PAINFUL OR VISIBLE. HF WILL PENETRATE SKIN AND ATTACK UNDERLYING TISSUES
AND BONE. LARGE BURNS (OVER 25 SQUARE INCHES) MAY ALSO CAUSE HYPOCALCEMIA
WHICH, IN RARE INSTANCES, HAS BEEN FATAL. SPECIAL MEDICAL TREATMENT IS REQUIRED
TO TREAT HYDROFLUORIC ACID BURNS. THE EFFECTS MAY BE DELAYED IF INITIAL FIRST
AID MEASURES ARE INADEQUATE. DILUTE SOLUTIONS OF HYDROFLUORIC ACID (2% OR LOWER)
CAN ALSO CAUSE BURNS.
EYES:
BOTH LIQUID AND VAPOR CAN CAUSE IRRITATION OR CORNEAL BURNS OR
CONJUNCTIVITIS. DILUTE SOLUTIONS OF HYDROFLUORIC ACID (2% OR LOWER) CAN ALSO
CAUSE BURNS.
INHALATION:
MILD EXPOSURE: CAN IRRITATE NOSE, THROAT AND RESPIRATORY SYSTEM. SEVERE
EXPOSURE: CAN CAUSE NOSE AND THROAT BURNS, LUNG INFLAMMATION AND PULMONARY
EDEMA. ALSO DEPLETES CALCIUM LEVELS IN THE BODY IF NOT PROMPTLY TREATED,
RESULTING IN DEATH DUE TO HYPOCALCEMIA.
INGESTION:
CAN CAUSE SEVERE MOUTH, THROAT AND STOMACH BURNS. CAN AFFECT KIDNEY FUNCTION AND
BE FATAL IF SWALLOWED. PROFOUND AND POSSIBLY FATAL HYPOCALCEMIA IS LIKELY TO
OCCUR UNLESS MEDICAL TREATMENT IS PROMPTLY INITIATED. |
Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
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yoviher
Location: Puerto Rico
| | Re: Advise for abandoned oil refinery?
<Reply # 29 on 9/28/2006 3:27 AM >
| | | | I am willing to enter into drains and run the risk of drowning right there because of some freak rain. And here in the tropics its really common to have unexpected rain.
I am willing to go to Pripyat and go through all the risks of radioactivity (and the only thing that separates me from going there is that I haven't got the cash).
Now I have a place that might be the Caribbean's Pripyat in terms of UE, without the risk of coming out in a bluish green afterglow, thats within a friggin' two hour drive from me. And I have a window of one week where I have a car to drive there. And I am not gonna go there?
Hell, thats the closest I can think of to taking the blue pill.
Not that I am brushing off all the dangerous stuff that might be there. I will go out of my way not to have anything happen, and won't try to open up anything that looks sealed and stay out of underground places or pipes. Common sense might be my best safety equipment.
I'm going to post what an EPA report from 2002 says about the place. It talks about several waste disposal units, and they consists of several lagoons for the wastewater treatment and some tanks for storing contaminated oil. Here they say the stuff thats inside those places.
"These units contain the following additional hazardous
constituents: fluorene, pyrene, hexachlorodibenzodioxin, arsenic, barium, cadmium,
chromium, nickel and zinc."
[last edit 9/28/2006 3:32 AM by yoviher - edited 1 times]
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blackhawk
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
Location: Mission Control
UER newbie
| | | Re: Advise for abandoned oil refinery?
<Reply # 30 on 9/28/2006 4:00 AM >
| | | | Doesn't look so bad......just don't drink the water
Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
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minusonebit
Location: Oklahoma City, OK, United States
Gender: Male
Will Explore for Food
| | | | | | Re: Advise for abandoned oil refinery?
<Reply # 31 on 9/28/2006 7:02 AM >
| | | | | Posted by iq72EfXHere's what wikipedia said... |
The great thing about Wikipedia is that anyone can edit it. And the biggest problem with Wikipedia is that anyone can edit it.
Commit a Random Act of Exploration. |
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minusonebit
Location: Oklahoma City, OK, United States
Gender: Male
Will Explore for Food
| | | | | | Re: Advise for abandoned oil refinery?
<Reply # 32 on 9/28/2006 7:10 AM >
| | | | Posted by blackhawk
There are plenty of dangerous chemicals at a refinery, make no mistake of that. When fasteners break there's no warning, just falling steel. If your on it, or in it's way....your taking the ride. Groups of people tend to distract each other as well as draw attention. Even at a site like this I rather be alone.
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Well, sounds like thats the case. I made an uninformed statement from the hip without any research.
But I will disagree with you on the no warning part. There are always signs that something is unstable. They might be subtle, but you can often hear or feel them. Things that creak, I stay off of, same with things that have "give" to them. I suppose sometimes things just do break with no warning at all, but its always been my experience that things will warn you if you are careful and paying attention.
Commit a Random Act of Exploration. |
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blackhawk
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
Location: Mission Control
UER newbie
| | | Re: Advise for abandoned oil refinery?
<Reply # 33 on 9/28/2006 8:41 AM >
| | | | Posted by minusonebit
Well, sounds like thats the case. I made an uninformed statement from the hip without any research.
But I will disagree with you on the no warning part. There are always signs that something is unstable. They might be subtle, but you can often hear or feel them. Things that creak, I stay off of, same with things that have "give" to them. I suppose sometimes things just do break with no warning at all, but its always been my experience that things will warn you if you are careful and paying attention.
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ha-ha, I'm getting use to soggy floors, prolly not a good sign.
Someone in CA on here had a catwalk collapse under them that was "solidly" anchored to concrete. Fortunately they were roped off, and left dangling 20 feet in the air. I had it happen when I used a hefty bracket holding loose pipes anchored to a concrete wall to support myself. It seemed solid ...snap! shit. I was lucky, but not because I planned it. Sometimes you can tell, but concrete anchors can be tricky.
I've worked in refineries from time to time, and chemicals just fascinate me in general. I've done a bunch of different industrial jobs that let me broaden my exposure so to speak, to some of the really fun chemicals. It really is a good idea to always wear glasses, sun, whatever. Not just because of chemicals, though. I know more than one person who has gouged out an eye.
Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
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Pravus
Location: Chicago Area
Gender: Male
Now the two key words for tonight - "caution" and "flammable"...
| | | | Re: Advise for abandoned oil refinery?
<Reply # 34 on 9/28/2006 6:35 PM >
| | | | thats the problem with concrete.. it gives you a false sence of security, and with rotted wood you can feel it give a bit, with concrete it's just a matter of putting enough weight on the wrong spot so things snap off.. go with at least one other person, and depending on how dilapidated the building is maybe bring safety gear so you can tie off when crossing sketchy areas..
Live to Serve, Serve to Live.. |
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blackhawk
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
Location: Mission Control
UER newbie
| | | Re: Advise for abandoned oil refinery?
<Reply # 35 on 9/28/2006 7:30 PM >
| | | | Posted by Pravus
thats the problem with concrete.. it gives you a false sence of security, and with rotted wood you can feel it give a bit, with concrete it's just a matter of putting enough weight on the wrong spot so things snap off.. go with at least one other person, and depending on how dilapidated the building is maybe bring safety gear so you can tie off when crossing sketchy areas..
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Yeah if yor going on catwalks, etc anchored in concrete a roping off isn't a bad idea. The idea of a whole set of concrete steps just collapsing under my feet while very unlikely has crossed my mind more than once. Getting nailed by rusted through grating is the more real danger though.
Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
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Jonsered
Location: Back in New Mexico where I belong
Gender: Male
Dressed for a scarecrow ball.........
| |  | | Re: Advise for abandoned oil refinery?
<Reply # 36 on 9/28/2006 9:18 PM >
| | | | Yoviher,
Sounds like a pocketfull of risks to me. And in response I say........Fuck it.
You dont' get too many opportunities like this. Be careful, take proper precautions, and don't fool with things you don't understand, but don't miss this. Wide open industrial facilities are not common. Be cool but check it out.
The goal isn't to add years to your life, but to add life to your years.
Enjoy!
I have changed my personal exploring ethics code. From now on it will be: "Take only aimed shots, leave only hobo corpses." Copper scrappers, meth heads and homeless beware. The Jonsered cometh among you, bringing fear and dread.
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minusonebit
Location: Oklahoma City, OK, United States
Gender: Male
Will Explore for Food
| | | | | | Re: Advise for abandoned oil refinery?
<Reply # 37 on 9/28/2006 11:21 PM >
| | | | Posted by blackhawk
Yeah if yor going on catwalks, etc anchored in concrete a roping off isn't a bad idea. The idea of a whole set of concrete steps just collapsing under my feet while very unlikely has crossed my mind more than once. Getting nailed by rusted through grating is the more real danger though.
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Yeah, reminds me... need to go get that Tetanus vaccination. I am actually tennatively planning to head to this location after I see the OPs pics and such. This sounds like one worth traveling for to me. I was just thinking... if its 800 acres... thats more than 1 mile square in size. After all, a "section" is 640 acres, and thats 1 mile in all directions. Thats freaking HUGE. I could spend a week over there and still not see it all.
Posted by Pravus
thats the problem with concrete.. it gives you a false sence of security, and with rotted wood you can feel it give a bit, with concrete it's just a matter of putting enough weight on the wrong spot so things snap off.. go with at least one other person, and depending on how dilapidated the building is maybe bring safety gear so you can tie off when crossing sketchy areas..
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Tieing off is a good idea.
Commit a Random Act of Exploration. |
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minusonebit
Location: Oklahoma City, OK, United States
Gender: Male
Will Explore for Food
| | | | | | Re: Advise for abandoned oil refinery?
<Reply # 38 on 9/28/2006 11:23 PM >
| | | | Posted by Jonsered
Yoviher,
Sounds like a pocketfull of risks to me. And in response I say........Fuck it.
You dont' get too many opportunities like this. Be careful, take proper precautions, and don't fool with things you don't understand, but don't miss this. Wide open industrial facilities are not common. Be cool but check it out.
The goal isn't to add years to your life, but to add life to your years.
Enjoy!
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That’s exactly right. You only live once (well, at least that’s what I believe) and I have absolutely no intention of tiptoeing through life only to safely arrive at deaths door.
Commit a Random Act of Exploration. |
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iq72EfX
Location: Fond du Lac, Wisconsin
Gender: Male
UE in a question mark suit since '05
| | Re: Advise for abandoned oil refinery?
<Reply # 39 on 9/29/2006 12:08 AM >
| | | | Posted by minusonebitThat’s exactly right. You only live once (well, at least that’s what I believe) and I have absolutely no intention of tiptoeing through life only to safely arrive at deaths door.
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That still doesn't mean you disregard safety precautions. At least the people who safely tiptoe through life don't die after a painful battle with lung cancer because they were too hardcore for a respirator back then.
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