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Server Time:
2024-04-23 10:47:14
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 Lonestar
  
Location: DALLAS
Gender: Male
 |  | Re: supercollider facility away from main campus
<Reply # 20 on 6/7/2006 6:03 PM >
|  | | | Posted by Jonsered
The consensus seems to be that unless you outwit several guards and the cops, rappel in from a hovering copter, tunnel through asbestos and beat down a watch dog, it isn't exploring, its tourism.
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i agree that it does seem that way and it shouldnt be. i do want to say that i dont think it is "truly" exploring (my definition of exploring anyways) when you get permission. i mean you dont say your exploring when you get directions to your buddies cabin in the woods and you drive out there and park in the drive way, but you would be exploring if you saw and old dirt road that you had never seen before and follow it back and parked in the drive way of some guys cabin in the woods.
edit: for clarity
[last edit 6/7/2006 6:06 PM by Lonestar - edited 1 times]
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bkblonghorn
Gender: Male
| | Re: supercollider facility away from main campus
<Reply # 21 on 6/7/2006 7:03 PM >
| | | | Posted by boutdatlonestar
Ok so ill ask again what is your interest in the current condition of the building? the tunnels i understand cause for a normal person it would be cool to see that kind of thing underground. I dont mean to attack you here cause i know the rest of em have done a good enough job, but seriously if your just a highschool teacher whats your interest in the buildings current condition? its not like your a millionaire investor that wants to purchase it and turn it into a ice skating rink or something so why do you keep asking about its "current condition" like you need to use it for something? i guess the main question is how is the condition of the building relevant for your needs what ever they maybe. i mean were interested in it for the exploring stand point but you have already made it clear that you arent and explorer.
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This is difficult for me to put into words. The first time I drove by the SSC about two months ago (which was well before I had even heard of Urban Exploring) I was very fascinated with it. I didnt notice any fence or signs to keep me away. I couldnt resist the urge to find out what it looked like on the inside of those massive abandoned buildings. I drove up to one of the buildings on the western end and tried to open a door, but it was locked. I continued to drive all around the buildings and tried to look in a couple of windows. Finally, right smack in the middle of the complex I saw a big blue sign that read "no trespassing property of Ellis County" and I figured I should leave. Also, I knew there were tunnels. But I didnt know where. I kept picturing a big hole somewhere like I saw on the internet when the place was active. Then I saw the SUV site by REVSM with pictures of the inside and many of the lights still on and my curiosity grew exponentially. I pictured miles of tunnel somewhere, possibly with lights working, just waiting for someone to explore them. I am trying to understand what could have been if the project were completed. Moreover, I am trying to comprehend the scale of waist in terms of money and resources that went into this thing. It is simply amazing to me the potential this place had and the resources that were poured into it and now it just sits and waist away. These may sound strange, but some basic questions I have are as follows:
Could the government pick the project back up some day and complete it right there in Waxahachie if it chose to do so or are those facilities and tunnels somehow in too poor of condition or obsolete? Aside from political support, what would it take to complete that project and get it operational? Maybe I hold out some faint hope that such things will be done some day. I have heard and read that there is a collider of similar scale in Europe(although not as powerful as the SSC would have been) that will be operational soon. Perhaps, if the benefits from that project really impact the world and benefit Europe, our government will decide it is worthwhile to finish the SSC. After all, isnt a good foundation already in place with those facilities in Waxahachie? Is it simply a matter of coming in and cleaning up the place then continuing where they left off in 1993?
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Lonestar
Location: DALLAS
Gender: Male
| | Re: supercollider facility away from main campus
<Reply # 22 on 6/7/2006 7:29 PM >
| | | | good response, tells me exactly what i wanted to know! thanks. that was my biggest problem (that you've never stated you intentions until now).
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mayhem154
 
Location: New Orleans
Gender: Male
Hello...
| | Re: supercollider facility away from main campus
<Reply # 23 on 6/8/2006 3:05 PM >
| | | | Your "Key" to the promised land. There are many options, but only one will get you there. Choose wisely, Grasshopper....
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'Dukes
Noble Donor
Gender: Male
At least someone llikes me
| |  | Re: supercollider facility away from main campus
<Reply # 24 on 6/8/2006 10:49 PM >
| | | | I've been following this for a while, and honestly I gotta say I admire big blacks tenacity. After all that's where the drive starts, fascination with one particular place.
But honestly, I think Big black would be better off cracking this one on his own.
By the way, are we at an Iron maiden concert in the pics? I don't get the devil sign.
I got your tour winner right here pussies, at least he'd crash out trying. |
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Explorer Zero
| |  | Re: supercollider facility away from main campus
<Reply # 25 on 6/9/2006 2:19 AM >
| | | | Posted by bkblonghorn
So basically we are not urban exploring unless we are taking risk and |
youre not living unless youre taking risks. period.
and I apologize if anyone that "explores" with permission feels offended, each to his own I guess
(now I can say I explored Disney Land! I did take some pics while I was there) 
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bkblonghorn
Gender: Male
| | Re: supercollider facility away from main campus
<Reply # 26 on 6/9/2006 3:14 AM >
| | | | Posted by 'Dukes
I've been following this for a while, and honestly I gotta say I admire big blacks tenacity. After all that's where the drive starts, fascination with one particular place.
But honestly, I think Big black would be better off cracking this one on his own.
By the way, are we at an Iron maiden concert in the pics? I don't get the devil sign.
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Who is big black? Also, that is the hook'em horns sign that represents the University of Texas Longhorns.
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bkblonghorn
Gender: Male
| | Re: supercollider facility away from main campus
<Reply # 27 on 6/9/2006 3:36 AM >
| | | | Posted by mayhem154
Your "Key" to the promised land. There are many options, but only one will get you there. Choose wisely, Grasshopper....
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Are those pictures of what currently covers this?
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mayhem154
Location: New Orleans
Gender: Male
Hello...
| | Re: supercollider facility away from main campus
<Reply # 28 on 6/9/2006 4:23 AM >
| | | | Definitely....
Probably....
Maybe....
There is only ONE way for you to find out.
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bkblonghorn
Gender: Male
| | Re: supercollider facility away from main campus
<Reply # 29 on 6/9/2006 5:59 AM >
| | | | Posted by mayhem154
Definitely....
Probably....
Maybe....
There is only ONE way for you to find out.
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Well, where is this thing in relation to the main SSC campus? I cant recall seeing it anywhere. It looks like it is in the middle of a field somewhere.
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mayhem154
Location: New Orleans
Gender: Male
Hello...
| | Re: supercollider facility away from main campus
<Reply # 30 on 6/9/2006 7:09 AM >
| | | | Keep in mind the sheer size of this project. The main tunnel was going to be a 56 mile oval shaped ring. About 14 miles of this tunnel was completed. Think about where the outlying building you found was. Think about the extremely wide roads that seem out of place. Think about the excessive amount of powerlines that run randomly into fields and then just stop for no particular reason. Think about all the physicists and engineers that designed this thing. Would you build a tunnel this big, 200 ft underground with no ventilation shafts? No maintenance shafts? No emergency exits? I know I wouldn't....
One last bit of info. If you are only focusing on the area between Maypearl and Waxahachie, you will never find any of these.
All of the pieces of this puzzle have been laid out for you. All that's left is for you to go out there and have some fun.
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bkblonghorn
Gender: Male
| | Re: supercollider facility away from main campus
<Reply # 31 on 6/9/2006 6:03 PM >
| | | | | If you are only focusing on the area between Maypearl and Waxahachie, you will never find any of these. |
Can I assume that any tunnel vents or emergency exits must be within about a 10 mile radius of the main SSC campus. I mean there were only 14 miles completed of the proposed 56 miles of tunnel, all 14 of which were in the vicinity of the main SSC campus right?. Thus, I can pretty much disregard exploring the other side of Waxahachie (which would be the area between Ennis and Waxahachie) cant I? Then doesnt this leave the area to be explored pretty much in between Waxahachie and Maypearl (give or take just a bit)? Please tell me if my assumptions are wrong.
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Jonsered
Location: Back in New Mexico where I belong
Gender: Male
Dressed for a scarecrow ball.........
| |  | | Re: supercollider facility away from main campus
<Reply # 32 on 6/9/2006 6:08 PM >
| | | | Don't assume Anything. You're dealing with the US government here. They might have started digging miles from where the current sheds are. Expecting the government to be logical is a serious mistake.
I have changed my personal exploring ethics code. From now on it will be: "Take only aimed shots, leave only hobo corpses." Copper scrappers, meth heads and homeless beware. The Jonsered cometh among you, bringing fear and dread.
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Explorer Zero
| | | Re: supercollider facility away from main campus
<Reply # 33 on 6/9/2006 6:33 PM >
| | | | Posted by Jonsered
Don't assume Anything. You're dealing with the US government here. They might have started digging miles from where the current sheds are. Expecting the government to be logical is a serious mistake.
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that could be
when the Central Pacific dug (blasted) the tunnel for the Intercontinental RR over the Sierras, they started at both ends AND the middle by sinking a shaft straight down so 4 working faces were all being drilled and blasted simultaneously, pretty amzing since they had to use nitro because the blackpowder method wasnt getting the job done
scary job man but this company used a single tunnel boring machine, TBM and Im pretty sure I know where it went in but while youre here and being that youre our resident mine expert, and Im sure youve followed this thread (and others):
whats the projected lifespan of a bored/blasted in solid limestone and shale tunnel, remember it was reinforced and lined with concrete and shotcrete in places?
I dont think it would collapse in a million years but apparently Im in the minority, and since the shotcrete probably wasnt spec'd for underwater use whats the odds of one of those big chambers becoming a sinkhole (the 200 footers not the 15ft tunnels) even if the small ones did collapse theyre so deep it wouldnt effect the surface much
also (hey if noob gets to ask 60 questions I can ask a couple)
the TBM, its been said it was abandoned when the project stopped, the way I see it they probably wouldnt be able to back it out, then at least the cutting head portion is still down there, right?
anyway I defer to your subterranean expertise, its not a mine but is close
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Jonsered
Location: Back in New Mexico where I belong
Gender: Male
Dressed for a scarecrow ball.........
| | | | Re: supercollider facility away from main campus
<Reply # 34 on 6/9/2006 6:59 PM >
| | | | Hmmm....Interesting questions 2x.
I've been in limestone shafts that were 150 years old and looked brand new, with no caving or flaking at all. I've also been in limestone tunnels that encountered springs while they were being dug, and sheets of rock weighing 500 tons have broken off. I don't believe that I've ever been in a limestone and shale situation, though. I'm no concrete expert, but I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that the addition of concrete or shotcrete would conceivably extend the tunnel life by another 100 years or more, depending on the surrounding geology and movement of the ground in that area due to plate shifting, etc. That number is no good if springs are involved though, because they will constantly attack the concrete and erode the limestone.
The wetness is where it gets problematic. Just like an empty gas tank at an old station can float to the surface, or an empty swimming pool floats up and cracks, a tunnel tries to do the same thing. The problem is that the whole tunnel won't rise at the same rate. This leads to stress fractures, flooding and the whole ball of wax. I wouldn't think it would take more than a couple of inches differential to cause real problems, and the longer the tunnel, the greater opportunity for damage. I'm with you in guessing that the shotcrete wasn't spec'd for water, but they may have been a step ahead of us here. So, I'd have to say in answer to your question, I suspect we will see destruction of large parts of the tunnels within 100 years of their date of construction. They would surely last longer if they were still being used and kept dry, but that isn't the case.
As far as the TBM, tough call. When the Chunnel was completed in Europe, the French machines were taken apart and removed, but the British one was driven into rock and abandoned. The TBM might well be down there, or at least large parts of it. I didn't really follow the construction process very well.
For the record, there is another supercollider being built in the Jura Mountains where France and Switzerland meet.
[last edit 6/9/2006 7:50 PM by Jonsered - edited 1 times]
I have changed my personal exploring ethics code. From now on it will be: "Take only aimed shots, leave only hobo corpses." Copper scrappers, meth heads and homeless beware. The Jonsered cometh among you, bringing fear and dread.
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bkblonghorn
Gender: Male
| | Re: supercollider facility away from main campus
<Reply # 35 on 6/9/2006 7:23 PM >
| | | | | For the record, there is another supercollider being built in the Jura Mountains where France and Switzerland meet. |
Yes, thats the collider I was talking about earlier that I hope might inspire our government to reconsider our own SSC here in Waxahachie. You know, there are houses and roads above where that SSC tunnel lies. At the least, they are looking at considerable property damage if it were to collapse in the next 100 years because such a compromise to the ground can cause foundation problems and roads to crack (perhaps somewhat like a small earthquake). Moreover, couldnt someone get seriously hurt if it causes a road to sink in or a bridge or overpass to collapse and someone traveling on say farmroad 66 driving at 55 miles per hour to crash. Thats why I believe there is some obligation to pump the water out and stabilize the tunnel (after all, you did say that the water causes problems). We should lobby congress with this argument (of course, we would have our own hidden agenda of wanting the tunnels to be dry so that they can be explored).
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Allva
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Gender: Male
I have my moments.
| | | Re: supercollider facility away from main campus
<Reply # 36 on 6/9/2006 8:38 PM >
| | | | How quickly they fell...one by one...
Life is hard, but it's harder when you're stupid. |
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bkblonghorn
Gender: Male
| | Re: supercollider facility away from main campus
<Reply # 37 on 6/9/2006 8:54 PM >
| | | | Posted by Allva
How quickly they fell...one by one...
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What are you smoking? Why do you keep coming on here with your short incomplete half baked commentary? I welcome your audience, but try contributing something of substance to the discussion for a change.
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Explorer Zero
| | | Re: supercollider facility away from main campus
<Reply # 38 on 6/9/2006 10:25 PM >
| | | | Posted by bkblonghorn
What are you smoking? Why do you keep coming on here with your short incomplete half baked commentary? I welcome your audience, but try contributing something of substance to the discussion for a change.
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yah Allva wheres your contribution? I havent seen any pics from you with your fingers in the frame you slacker!
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'Dukes
Noble Donor
Gender: Male
At least someone llikes me
| | | Re: supercollider facility away from main campus
<Reply # 39 on 6/9/2006 11:10 PM >
| | | | Posted by bkblonghorn
Who is big black? Also, that is the hook'em horns sign that represents the University of Texas Longhorns.
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YOU are "big black" or at least that's the way I interpreted your alphabet soup screen name, but then again I'm a little touched.
I got your tour winner right here pussies, at least he'd crash out trying. |
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