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 blackhawk
  
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
Location: Mission Control
UER newbie
 |  |  | Re: Hey, I'm just curious,
<Reply # 20 on 5/31/2006 1:47 PM >
|  | | | Posted by desmet
Disagree. I saw a dramatic increase in sharpness and a MASSIVE reduction in CA when I switched to L glass. When I was shooting with the 17-85 it used to piss me off when I'd look at photoblogs like cornershots and chromasia and see how much sharper their images were. Blackhawk's point about f2.8 is also a good one.
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Same here. I don't use the Canon EF-S 17-85mm f/4-5.6 IS USM since I got the EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM even though it's quite a bit bigger, and heavier. The 17-85 would not have caught that last shot I posted. With a f/2.8 I can stop it down for good DOF in low light for a moving shot, handheld with no image stabilization.
Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
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dev
 
Passed away September 23rd, 2006.
| | Re: Hey, I'm just curious,
<Reply # 21 on 5/31/2006 6:18 PM >
| | | | I'm really not sure, and am quite aware that they're totally different shots. the point was that you can crank similar results for the web out of whatever kit you pick up. i could have shot that scene with a 4 year old 2 megapixel point and shoot, re-ressed it for the web, and it'd look comparable to those already posted.
Posted by desmet
I researched a lot when I bought the camera and the lenses and to just say "bah it all looks the same" based on a comparison which really doesn't prove anything at all is kind of silly, I think.
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however, my point was not that gear is totally unimportant, but that "i need to know what photographer X was shooting with because his/her web-ressed images were just soooo awesome" is kind of ignorant. i like gear just as much as the next guy, but i've gotten tired of the gear fetishization that digital photography and the internet has caused. it'd be really nice if the EXIF information was left with each image... or if people would quit asking "what are you shooting with?!?" over and over, as if the kit made the image.
i fully understand that a quality kit produces higher quality images, but there's some people out there with decades-old film cameras shooting slides, and some people out there with a point and shoot that are producing quality work.
resolution, cropping latitude, lack of CA, corner sharpness, et al are not the END-ALL-BE-ALL of photography.
making emotion or thought provoking images is, i think.
and last time i checked, a better kit doesn't produce the images, the person behind the trigger does.
when people ask "what was that shot with", i just want to say
"cameras don't make great images, people create great images"
... kinda like the
"guns don't kill people, people kill people"
Honestly, they BOTH look soft to me...
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they are both soft. neither were sharpened.
I don't know about you, but I take pictures to print, not just to put up on the web.
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and i understand that; if i was looking at a high quality print, then the gear used to produce the image becomes more important... buy a 400x600x72dpi web image... whatever.
i suppose that my point was overwrought; i'm trying to say that at web resolution, you don't need THAT much to work with.
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desmet
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.
| |  | | Re: Hey, I'm just curious,
<Reply # 22 on 5/31/2006 8:17 PM >
| | | | Fair enough...I'm on board with that.
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blackhawk
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
Location: Mission Control
UER newbie
| | | Re: Hey, I'm just curious,
<Reply # 23 on 5/31/2006 8:51 PM >
| | | | Yeah, you make a valid point dev about shooting for web pics. If that's your objective 8+ MB images aren't needed. I wish more websites would use higher res pics, but that's not the case.
Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
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laslow
Location: Tewksbury, MA
you have quite a temper for someone who takes pictures of flowers
| | Re: Hey, I'm just curious,
<Reply # 24 on 5/31/2006 10:44 PM >
| | | | camera and lens are one of the main factors in the quality of the photograph
specifically the lens, and in the case of digital -- often the camera just as much so.
choice of camera and lens is up to the photographer
therefore, she/he is making a decision that will affect the quality of her/his photographs.
this decision is based on knowledge of the equipment.
that is why it matters.
technical proficiency is a part of our art, not merely elements of composition.
feel free to take me on.
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dev
Passed away September 23rd, 2006.
| | Re: Hey, I'm just curious,
<Reply # 25 on 6/1/2006 4:52 AM >
| | | | Posted by laslow
technical proficiency is a part of our art, not merely elements of composition.
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being technically proficient with whatever kit you choose is very important...
however, it does NOT mean that if i go out and buy a F3HP, RB67 and E-1 that i can produce images of the same quality that you can.
i'm not claiming that gear is unimportant, but it's not just the gear. it's the user, and the user's ability to produce the image that they want using that gear.
furthermore, my upgrade path, once i get a good paying job, is towards a 10D and likely a 17-40 f/4L... the 10D body should go for around $400 or $500, which means that the lens will cost more than the body, and the body will be a semi-pro tank, even if a bit aged. shooting raw means that i don't have to worry as much about an aging in-camera processing chip.
my whole point is that at the level of producing web images to post in a gallery on a forum... if it looks good, the gear doesn't matter. and the constant questioning of "what camera were you using??? (because obviously the camera was more important than your skill)" is rather shallow.
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Myelin
 
Location: The End of Canada
Gender: Male
| | Re: Hey, I'm just curious,
<Reply # 26 on 6/1/2006 1:05 PM >
| | | | Posted by dev
my whole point is that at the level of producing web images to post in a gallery on a forum... if it looks good, the gear doesn't matter. and the constant questioning of "what camera were you using??? (because obviously the camera was more important than your skill)" is rather shallow.
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What's so shallow about wanting to understand the technical/hardware side of the process, dev?
You speak as though every time you see that question asked, that the author just wants to initiate a simple-minded brag session.
I'll give the example of my last purchase, a w/a zoom for my DSLR. I did quite a bit of my product research right here. If I saw someone getting consistantly good results in term of CA and asph. distortion, I wanted to know what lens was on the camera. You can't go by what camera store salespeople say - they have an agenda. You can't go by photo mag reviews, they'd praise up anyone that puts full page ads in their publication. You can't depend on internet reviewers like Ken Rockwell, who are just interested in getting a reaction. But you CAN depend on fellow amateur shooters who are REALLY in the know and have nothing to gain by B.S.'ing.
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Andy "Not Dice" Dice
Location: We can live in dumpsters if we have to, MA
Gender: Male
UE'ing is for pussies, bro.
| | | | Re: Hey, I'm just curious,
<Reply # 27 on 6/2/2006 10:57 PM >
| | | | Posted by Dev
however, my point was not that gear is totally unimportant, but that "i need to know what photographer X was shooting with because his/her web-ressed images were just soooo awesome" is kind of ignorant. i like gear just as much as the next guy, but i've gotten tired of the gear fetishization that digital photography and the internet has caused.
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Taadaaaaaa!
| You speak as though every time you see that question asked, that the author just wants to initiate a simple-minded brag session. |
How many people on THIS forum do you think are taking notes every time they ask that question?
--- 456.photo.to --- |
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Myelin
Location: The End of Canada
Gender: Male
| | Re: Hey, I'm just curious,
<Reply # 28 on 6/4/2006 12:29 AM >
| | | | Based on how much the question bothers some people, I'm guessing alot of people are taking notes...
[last edit 6/4/2006 12:30 AM by Myelin - edited 1 times]
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blackhawk
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
Location: Mission Control
UER newbie
| | | Re: Hey, I'm just curious,
<Reply # 29 on 6/4/2006 12:37 AM >
| | | | Posted by Myelin
Based on how much the question bothers some people, I'm guessing alot of people are taking notes...
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I think it's fascinating to know what someone is shooting with, and the see results they're getting. Although you don't see but a fraction of the complete image.
Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
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camerakid
Location: Detroit, MI
Gender: Female
ninja
| | | Re: Hey, I'm just curious,
<Reply # 30 on 6/8/2006 5:19 PM >
| | | | I like the pictures I take and Dev likes the pictures he takes AND we appreciate each other's work. End of story. To each their own. Neither of us care what anyone else thinks or what equipment you're shooting with.
photo blog | nicolerork.com | seth thomas |
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