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1 2 3 4   UER Forum > Archived Forum Announcements > A personal request (Viewed 2027 times) HillbillyHorus  Location: Charlottesville Virginia Gender: Male Im in ur government, killin ur d00dz  |  |  Re: A personal request <Reply # 40 on 4/16/2006 1:43 PM >   Screw this, I saw an outfall on a bikeride yesterday I want to check out and that's way more important than all this web-b.s. ue not uer! You can't fall off a mountain. Plytheman  Location: Lawrence, Massachusetts Obey The Deer  |  |  Re: A personal request <Reply # 41 on 4/16/2006 5:03 PM >   Posted by Raticus Plytheman, please, everyone listen. WE DIDN"T TAKE IT OUT. Av did. The mods can no longer see it either. If you wanted one of us to pull up an old thread, at least right now, we can't. We cannot see it either. We didn't take it out... Av did. Well, I'm not blaming the Mods for it, just petitioning that we resolve the problem now. Av, if you thought getting rid of Forum Issues would just sweep all our problems here under the rug, fine, but why put it beyond the grasp of your own mod team? Why is the last thing you do before you hand the forums over an action that effectively shoots our ability to get together and work out these problems in the foot? I'm achin, I'm shakin, I'm breakin, Like Humans Do!! -Byrne Axle  Location: Milton, ON Gender: Male Sieg oder Tod  |  Re: A personal request <Reply # 42 on 4/17/2006 12:30 PM >   First off to the mods I'd like to thank you for taking on the role of running the site, I know that if you didn't things would've quickly gone straight to hell and well Av would've probably run away to Mexico or some other place never to be seen again. As for my personal feelings, yeah, I do feel a bit put out, because we were almost starting to get things moving when the shit hit the fan. However in life shit happens, you just gotta start selling manure. Chainsaw, you're a brave man to front the elections board and the idea as such, Kudos to ya! The global poll idea was brought forward in the UER elections board, and was discussed, and nowhere did I see someone say 'this is a bad idea' or 'no I don't think we need this' personally on the global poll I vote for a democratic elections process where we could elect a group of peers. However it turned out that most people wanted the mods in power and voted as such. Sounds pretty democratic to me. As dev put it, we now have an oligarchy, one voted in by the general members. Maybe they'll do a good job, maybe they won't it's still way to early to tell. This is a tough site to run I can see that. It's big, there's a wide range of people on here from all walks of life and cultures. Maybe this is what we needed. But then again Hitler was voted into the Germany leadership on good intentions also. *looks are suspiciously for nazi symbols* Celer at Audax Para la Victoria Siempre Alemanes! Jester  Location: Vancouver,B.C. Canada Gender: Male Always just out of sight...  |  |  Re: A personal request <Reply # 43 on 4/17/2006 2:42 PM >   The Poll was brought in, during the electoral process as a way to help it along. I DID NOT see it stated that it would supercede the election plans. Posted by Avatar-X Hey all.. I think that having a quick Global Poll would help a lot. The poll would contain well-worded questions that let us feel out how the community as a whole feels about big issues, especially issues that we think are big issues. "I think that having a quick Global Poll would help a lot." I did not read that and think "This will end the electoral process that has been put into motion." Chainsaw himself did not think it meant the democratic process he was working on was going to be ended by that poll, up until he was trying to pull the knives out of his back... It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf. nutekk  Location: Central NJ Gender: Male  |  |  Re: A personal request <Reply # 44 on 4/17/2006 2:51 PM >   I'm new here and all i can say is that i'm damn well please at all the effort everyone on here makes at keeping things secure and pleasurable for all. i was referred by a friend of mine, and after being on the net for the past 17+yrs, and all the websites i've encountered in that time, none before now have gotten my attention and wantoness to participate as much as this one. everyone i've had the pleasure of chatting with thru here has been extremely nice and i'm looking forward to getting more involved. I do however appreciate the formality that the moderators use, and feel it's necessary. I admin a board myself for cable tv, satellite and home theater installers locally, and I've found inspiration here. Just wanted to leave off with, whatever you moderators decide, I believe it's in the best interest of all. Allowing a vote by the board's users, is by far the most objective approach. Thanx nutekk cheers ! " Take only pictures, leave only footprints" Fruitbat  Gender: Male  |  Re: A personal request <Reply # 45 on 4/18/2006 5:21 PM >   I'm only a newbie in terms of how long I've had an account, but I've been watching this situation develop for quite a while, so please don't be too quick to judge... To be honest, I'm a little uneasy with the use of "democracy" and "we removed the elections" in the same post. I'm also a little uneasy with MisfitStyle's really apologetic tone, along with the moderators who seconded him... it sounds more like you're trying to convince us to agree with you by sucking up to us, rather than sort out the problems. This isn't the way to sort out a problem, and I don't mean to sound like I'm telling you how to do your job... but trust me it won't help. That's what Bush does, he tries to convince people that what he's doing is right, rather than actually doing things right. That's not the actions of someone who genuinely cares about anything other than themselves - whether this was intended or not, that's how it looks. If you're trying to convince us that you care about this place, then in my opinion the best way to do this would be to hold the elections again, and this time let them go ahead. You say you're not going to ban us just because you disagree with or dislike us. This is good, certainly a step forward from what I've observed in the past. Along with this I'll happily acknowledge any good things that the new mod team do, because good things are good things no matter who they come from. However, this is not the issue as far as I can see. There's no debate about the good things that have been done. Heck, we might even have elected some of you had the elections been allowed to continue. But that is not the issue. The issue is, we were denied the chance to elect. It's not that you're not nice people, or that you don't have the forum's best interests at heart. It's just that we, or at least I, want a democracy. Currently we have a dictatorship. Even if it's a thoroughly nice, apologetic and charming dictatorship, this is what people are unhappy with, they don't want a dictatorship, they want the chance to elect people who do a lot for this community and this hobby out of their own passion. Those are the people who truly beyond any doubt care about this place, and will do what's right for it - the only way to ensure that these types of people are in power, not just now but in the future, is to let the members of this community elect them. If we have a practice of holding elections, then that will ensure the success of the forum. I see no reason why the elections can't be held again. It would prove that you guys really do have the best interests of UER at heart. If people want you in power then you'll be in power. If they don't want you in power then you're not going to be able to do much good here because everything you do will be criticised. I don't see how our current situation does any more than divide us. It might get better with time, but is that really any way to solve our issues? To just wait and hope they get better? Assuming the role of Unauthorised Personell since 2003... Jonsered  Location: Back in New Mexico where I belong Gender: Male Dressed for a scarecrow ball.........  |  |  |  Re: A personal request <Reply # 46 on 4/18/2006 5:36 PM >   Posted by Myelin Look at how the circle is completed. Av steps down and puts the site administration in care of the mods because he is sick of having his character and motives attacked at every turn. And what happens? You guys start attacking the mods, starting with the most visible and possibly the most helpful and well-meaning one of them all. Some of you guys need to stop thinking of yourselves for just one minute and give others the benefit of the doubt. The ongoing success of this site should be more important than YOUR political aspirations!! And there it is, simple and plain truth. We had an election poll, and the "Mods control the site" option was the big winner. How does that make the mods the assholes here? We had our chance to vote on the issue and its done. The mods are taking it in the shorts for trying to help save a site that AV was ready to abandon. Everybody can't get their way In particular, I'd like to commend Chainsaw and Misfitstyle for being the lightning rods here. You two deserve better. I have changed my personal exploring ethics code. From now on it will be: "Take only aimed shots, leave only hobo corpses." Copper scrappers, meth heads and homeless beware. The Jonsered cometh among you, bringing fear and dread. Noah Vale  Location: Portland, Or It's nobler to never get paid, than to bank on shit and dismay  |  |  |  Re: A personal request <Reply # 47 on 4/18/2006 6:09 PM >   Posted by Axle As dev put it, we now have an oligarchy, one voted in by the general members. If you stopped kissing ass for a moment, you may recall that the current mods were NOT voted in. "Dallas is a magnificent and wide open city, and I'm deeply envious of any urban explorers who have the good fortune to live there." -Ninj. maZe  Location: Montreal/Moncton/Ottawa Gender: Female "All the world's a stage and most of us are desperately unrehearsed" - Sean O'Casey  |  |  |  Re: A personal request <Reply # 48 on 4/18/2006 8:25 PM >   Posted by Jonsered And there it is, simple and plain truth. We had an election poll, and the "Mods control the site" option was the big winner. How does that make the mods the assholes here? We had our chance to vote on the issue and its done. The mods are taking it in the shorts for trying to help save a site that AV was ready to abandon. It's not what the people voted for that's annoying. it's the way it derailed the democratic process that was taking place to hold election. I hope the mods put that back in motion ASAP. Mechfreak57 in the UER chat : "George W. Bush is not perfect. He fucked up the borders and Irak is a shit storm but he's the best we've got. " Save the world - adopt an American! Jef  This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information. Gender: Male Hey Look at me....  |  Re: A personal request <Reply # 49 on 4/18/2006 9:29 PM >   I think they should just leave the site the way it is. If you dont like it take your ball and go home. Go create your own site. Its annoying that the person that made this site can't run it the way he chooses to. Avatar can change his mind at any second for anything and I have no right to bitch or complain. Deal with it, you all are bitching and crying because your not getting your own way, and that someone changed thier mind. We dont need an elected government on here. Let Avatar decide what to do with his place. Why would we? what would we gain? SWEET FUCK ALL. We must also go out and meet the enemy before he reaches our shores. We must defeat him before he attacks us, before our cities are laid to waste. William Lyon Mackenzie King, Prime Minister of Canada from 1921-1926, 1926-1930 and 1935-1948 Fruitbat  Gender: Male  |  Re: A personal request <Reply # 50 on 4/18/2006 9:54 PM >   Posted by Tat2ed White Trash I think they should just leave the site the way it is. If you dont like it take your ball and go home. Go create your own site. Its annoying that the person that made this site can't run it the way he chooses to. Avatar can change his mind at any second for anything and I have no right to bitch or complain. Deal with it, you all are bitching and crying because your not getting your own way, and that someone changed thier mind. We dont need an elected government on here. Let Avatar decide what to do with his place. Why would we? what would we gain? SWEET FUCK ALL. That kind of argument is fine until you bring up the fact that this is a community not a website - it's like a website where everyone is a volunteer contributor/writer - you would treat volunteer writers for a website with respect, so why not a forum? This place relies entirely on user participation, and if the majority of the users get really pissed off, they'll leave. I've seen forums actually die from situations (admittedly more extreme) than this, because one of the members just started a new forum on the same topic, and everyone moved there. Assuming the role of Unauthorised Personell since 2003... Jef  This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information. Gender: Male Hey Look at me....  |  Re: A personal request <Reply # 51 on 4/18/2006 10:12 PM >   Posted by Fruitbat This place relies entirely on user participation, and if the majority of the users get really pissed off, they'll leave. I've seen forums actually die from situations (admittedly more extreme) than this, because one of the members just started a new forum on the same topic, and everyone moved there. Its the same people arguing back and forth. A few arguing for a goverment does not consist of a majority of the users on this site. I bet Majority of the users on this site dont give a fuck about a government. I bet majority of the users on this site want this shit to end and continue on exploring. I bet majority of the users on this site won't even read this thread. I bet majority of users on this site Back Avatars decision. [last edit 4/18/2006 10:14 PM by Jef - edited 1 times] We must also go out and meet the enemy before he reaches our shores. We must defeat him before he attacks us, before our cities are laid to waste. William Lyon Mackenzie King, Prime Minister of Canada from 1921-1926, 1926-1930 and 1935-1948 Jester  Location: Vancouver,B.C. Canada Gender: Male Always just out of sight...  |  |  Re: A personal request <Reply # 52 on 4/18/2006 10:26 PM >   Posted by Jonsered And there it is, simple and plain truth. We had an election poll, and the "Mods control the site" option was the big winner. Wrong. We had a poll that was NOT stated to be how this would be resolved. The Poll was brought in, during the electoral process as a way to help it along. I DID NOT see it stated that it would supercede the election plans. Posted by Avatar-X Hey all.. I think that having a quick Global Poll would help a lot. The poll would contain well-worded questions that let us feel out how the community as a whole feels about big issues, especially issues that we think are big issues. "I think that having a quick Global Poll would help a lot." I did not read that and think "This will end the electoral process that has been put into motion." I voted in that with the belief it was just giving input, not that it was some vote that would decide the fate of the site. Chainsaw himself did not think it meant the democratic process he was working on was going to be ended by that poll, up until he was trying to pull the knives out of his back... The current mods were NOT voted in, do not misconstrue how things have happened. It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf. maZe  Location: Montreal/Moncton/Ottawa Gender: Female "All the world's a stage and most of us are desperately unrehearsed" - Sean O'Casey  |  |  |  Re: A personal request <Reply # 53 on 4/18/2006 10:27 PM >   I've always been the first to remind people this is Av's website and it's only Av website. And he's free to ban/block/delete me anytime. But thing is, my comment was related to trying to help the current situation and express the frustrations some members have regarding how the plug was pulled on the creating of an election. That's all. I'm trying to improve to site, which I call, a community. Mechfreak57 in the UER chat : "George W. Bush is not perfect. He fucked up the borders and Irak is a shit storm but he's the best we've got. " Save the world - adopt an American! Jonsered  Location: Back in New Mexico where I belong Gender: Male Dressed for a scarecrow ball.........  |  |  |  Re: A personal request <Reply # 54 on 4/18/2006 10:47 PM >   Posted by Jester Wrong. We had a poll that was NOT stated to be how this would be resolved. The Poll was brought in, during the electoral process as a way to help it along. I DID NOT see it stated that it would supercede the election plans. "I think that having a quick Global Poll would help a lot." I did not read that and think "This will end the electoral process that has been put into motion." I voted in that with the belief it was just giving input, not that it was some vote that would decide the fate of the site. Chainsaw himself did not think it meant the democratic process he was working on was going to be ended by that poll, up until he was trying to pull the knives out of his back... The current mods were NOT voted in, do not misconstrue how things have happened. Didn't misconstrue anything Jester. I clearly stated we had an election "poll" in which "Mods take over the site" was the big winner. I'm curious as to why you think a straight up vote would have turned out any differently. By far the largest number of people said they didn't give a shit what happened. As it happens, I didn't vote for the mods to take over, but there it is. I have changed my personal exploring ethics code. From now on it will be: "Take only aimed shots, leave only hobo corpses." Copper scrappers, meth heads and homeless beware. The Jonsered cometh among you, bringing fear and dread. Jester  Location: Vancouver,B.C. Canada Gender: Male Always just out of sight...  |  |  Re: A personal request <Reply # 55 on 4/19/2006 12:06 AM >   Posted by Jonsered Didn't misconstrue anything Jester. I clearly stated we had an election "poll" in which "Mods take over the site" was the big winner. I'm curious as to why you think a straight up vote would have turned out any differently. By far the largest number of people said they didn't give a shit what happened. As it happens, I didn't vote for the mods to take over, but there it is. Very simply. ask someone about something in a general sense and you don't always get the exact answer you would otherwise. Now ask them and make them completely aware that what they answer will be what they are governed by from then on, and you'll see more care put into an answer. I don't even care if keep the mods would win, the principle of the matter is simple. It was not stated that the poll was going to be the decision making vote. It was in the middle of an electoral process Chainsaw was running impartially where Av made his statement about "it would help by seeing what people think". Say one thing, do another, not something I see as the correct way of having done things. It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf. Jester  Location: Vancouver,B.C. Canada Gender: Male Always just out of sight...  |  |  Re: A personal request <Reply # 56 on 4/19/2006 4:01 PM >   And the final solution is ? It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf. Fruitbat  Gender: Male  |  Re: A personal request <Reply # 57 on 4/20/2006 5:34 AM >   Posted by Tat2ed White Trash Its the same people arguing back and forth. A few arguing for a goverment does not consist of a majority of the users on this site. I bet Majority of the users on this site dont give a fuck about a government. I bet majority of the users on this site want this shit to end and continue on exploring. I bet majority of the users on this site won't even read this thread. I bet majority of users on this site Back Avatars decision. Maybe it is, I'm not really qualified to make that judgement and neither are you really. For all you know, there could be a vast majority of people who don't want to comment. Now I'm not saying that I'm making statements under the assumption that this is true, I'm just demonstrating that what you bet doesn't really matter much until someone proves it to be fact. Since we're betting, I bet that the majority of the users aren't even aware of what's happened here. That said, after looking at this situation more thoroughly, I'm inclined to agree with you. As for Jester's argument, maybe people would have voted differently if things were worded differently. But maybe they wouldn't have, there's no way of saying for sure, and since what's done is done we can't turn back time and reword it. What, if anything, are you proposing be done about it? Because, after thinking about this more, I'm proposing we hold a poll asking if anyone even gives a shit. This thread hasn't exactly had a raving response. I know this is a complete 180 from my last couple posts, but you know what? That's because I've realised that there's only one question that really matters here: Is this forum a democracy or not? If it is, then hold a real election for a full mod team. If it's not then I'll be doing one of three things: 1 shut up 2 fuck off and 3 get on with being a contributor to an urban exploring forum. Assuming the role of Unauthorised Personell since 2003... Jef  This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information. Gender: Male Hey Look at me....  |  Re: A personal request <Reply # 58 on 4/20/2006 6:09 AM >   Posted by Fruitbat 1. Since we're betting, I bet that the majority of the users aren't even aware of what's happened here. 2. I'm proposing we hold a poll asking if anyone even gives a shit. 3. If it's not then I'll be doing one of three things: 1 shut up 2 fuck off and 3 get on with being a contributor to an urban exploring forum. 1. I will bet your you right. 2. I agree, I bet I know the outcome. 3. #3 We must also go out and meet the enemy before he reaches our shores. We must defeat him before he attacks us, before our cities are laid to waste. William Lyon Mackenzie King, Prime Minister of Canada from 1921-1926, 1926-1930 and 1935-1948 maZe  Location: Montreal/Moncton/Ottawa Gender: Female "All the world's a stage and most of us are desperately unrehearsed" - Sean O'Casey  |  |  |  Re: A personal request <Reply # 59 on 4/20/2006 1:42 PM >   Posted by Fruitbat Is this forum a democracy or not? If it is, then hold a real election for a full mod team. If it's not then I'll be doing one of three things: 1 shut up 2 fuck off and 3 get on with being a contributor to an urban exploring forum. We never asked for a "real election for a full mod team". We think mods are fine and are essential to this site. Yet, we think the "vision/leadership/direction" team needs to be elected to finally resolve the credibility & respect over authority issue. But I don't think no one ever ask to have an election for mods. EVER. [last edit 4/20/2006 1:43 PM by maZe - edited 1 times] Mechfreak57 in the UER chat : "George W. Bush is not perfect. He fucked up the borders and Irak is a shit storm but he's the best we've got. " Save the world - adopt an American! UER Forum > Archived Forum Announcements > A personal request (Viewed 2027 times)  1 2 3 4   All content and images copyright © 2002-2024 UER.CA and respective creators. Graphical Design by Crossfire. To contact webmaster, or click to email with problems or other questions about this site: UER CONTACT View Terms of Service | View Privacy Policy | Server colocation provided by Beanfield This page was generated for you in 140 milliseconds. Since June 23, 2002, a total of 739030267 pages have been generated.