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2024-05-13 22:44:43
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 cockapotamus
Gender: Male
shh...
 |  | Re: Rapelling!
<Reply # 21 on 4/17/2006 2:45 AM >
|  | | | learn to tie yourself a swiss-seat its a really simple harness that can be made using webbing which is great for all sorts of stuff too.
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Pravus
Location: Chicago Area
Gender: Male
Now the two key words for tonight - "caution" and "flammable"...
| |  |  | Re: Rapelling!
<Reply # 22 on 4/17/2006 7:00 AM >
| | | | Posted by cockapotamus
learn to tie yourself a swiss-seat its a really simple harness that can be made using webbing which is great for all sorts of stuff too.
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I'd recommend getting a harness highly over a jimmy rigged thing.. I can see it as a start to see it you like it and it's worth the cash to start buying gear, but get a real harness..
Live to Serve, Serve to Live.. |
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drkarst
Location: Dayton, Ohio
Gender: Male
| | Re: Rapelling!
<Reply # 23 on 4/17/2006 12:39 PM >
| | | | Posted by cockapotamus
learn to tie yourself a swiss-seat its a really simple harness that can be made using webbing which is great for all sorts of stuff too.
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The one inch tubular stuff is around 25 or 30 cents a foot (very affordable) and a strenghth factor of around 4000 lbs it is very usefull indeed.
The only bad things about webbing is that webbing can be cut much easier under load than rope. Be carefull!
Be carefull also when using it for a swiss seat cause it cuts off circulation if you have to hang in it for any extended period of time.
Seat belt webbing is better on the comfort side but you have to buy hardware and sew it together. It doesn't really tie together in knots very well.
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junkyard
 
Location: LaCrosse, WI
Gender: Male
Strategic Beer Command where the metal hits the meat.
| |  | Re: Rapelling!
<Reply # 24 on 4/17/2006 2:36 PM >
| | | | .......or you could get a $35-40 harness. Since you can't really buy a rope for under $100, it isn't that bad of a deal. My life's worth $40, not much more, depending on who you talk to. Add a few biners, a rappel device, and some webbing for building anchors and you'll have $300 invested before you go rappelling. I guess what I'm trying to say is that if you like cutting corners and being cheap, this may not be for you.
[last edit 4/17/2006 2:39 PM by junkyard - edited 1 times]
I drink gasoline for breakfeast and beer for dinner!
Any problem can be licked with a case of beer and a few sticks of dynamite.
Strategic Beer Command ruling the desert since 1995 http://www.strategic-beer-command.com |
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drkarst
Location: Dayton, Ohio
Gender: Male
| | Re: Rapelling!
<Reply # 25 on 4/17/2006 7:15 PM >
|  | | | Posted by junkyard
I guess what I'm trying to say is that if you like cutting corners and being cheap, this may not be for you.
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That is very true indeed.
I have done some very sucessful vertical caving with a swiss seat, 8-ring, two prussiks and rope (60cents a foot)
BUT This is not my favoprite choice. Sometimes the job requires a much smaller gear kit and this is all that you have space for.
You are very correct in your comment about being cheap. There is no substitute for the manufactured seat harnesses and ascenders/descenders etc that you should have when doing vertical work.
Beware that the more you get into rapelling the more stuff you will "hafta have" Pretty soon you end up with a grand in it! I have one rope that cost me $640.00!
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Chronos
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Gender: Male
| | Re: Rapelling!
<Reply # 26 on 4/24/2006 9:43 PM >
| | | | I have been playing with the idea lately of building a harness into a pair of jeans so its not so conspicuous. I haven't got very far with that yet, just figured I would use a similar design as is used for climbing harness, but make it out of webbing and sew it to the inside of some pants at strategic points that aren't visible from the outside of the pants. Basically just reinforcing the pants with webbing and adding some sort of a loop for the rope. Any thoughts on this?
"Always acknowledge a fault. This will throw those in authority off their guard and give you an opportunity to commit more." -Mark Twain |
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Pravus
Location: Chicago Area
Gender: Male
Now the two key words for tonight - "caution" and "flammable"...
| | | | Re: Rapelling!
<Reply # 27 on 4/24/2006 10:56 PM >
| | | | normally when we go out we just wear our harnesses and just don't tuck your shirt in, if it's remotely baggy it'll cover it enough.. as for hiding it under you pants it'd just be easier to put the harness on under your pants and just unzip/unbutton the fly when you wanna use it and just use the loop guy on the harnesses.. Although this may look more strange then just wearing a harness due to the random bulges you will get from the harness under your pants..
Theres also another harness I think Blackhawk makes thats alot smaller then normal harnesses.. It's not recommended in the slightest as the harness goes around the lower section of your hips and if you try rappelling upside down you will more then likely fall out of the harness and it can slowly shimmy off you as you run/walk.. It's made to be worn below a duty belt and attach with that or a tac harness or something..
Another idea I also wouldn't recommend is just to wear a riggers belt..
[last edit 4/24/2006 10:57 PM by Pravus - edited 1 times]
Live to Serve, Serve to Live.. |
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Freak
  
Location: Usually Alaska, now MSP.
Gender: Male
Hypocrite
| | | Re: Rapelling!
<Reply # 28 on 4/25/2006 4:04 AM >
| | | | There's a section of the UAF steam tunnels that basically requires rappeling or a ladder to do a full loop of the campus: http://freak.minim...m/tankrappell2.jpg
Also, broken down elevators are a good way to get to locked floors of construction sites:
http://freak.minimanga.com/shaft1a.jpg
http://freak.minimanga.com/shaft7.jpg
http://freak.minimanga.com/shaft3.jpg
Other UE rappelling I've done includes a cliff drain, a theater balcony, deep sewer cavern, and a 60ft abandoned elevator shaft (also had to ascend out, takes hours when you have a bunch of new people with you!). In most cases rappelling was the safest and sometimes only way to access any of these sites. It's a really useful skill, but you want to take the time to learn it right, and spend the money to get the right gear. As Junkyard said, you can get everything you need for $200-$300, and you might be really glad you have it!
Also, make sure you and anyone with you knows how to use your gear. I once had someone flip out over a possible alarm, ascend out first, and then throw their unfamiliar harness and rig down to me and tell me to hurry up!
Turn off the internet and go play outside.
http://spamusement...hp/comics/view/137 |
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MindHacker
Location: Suburbs of DC
Gender: Male
If you spot a terrorist arrow, pin it to the wall with your shoulder.
| | Re: Rapelling!
<Reply # 29 on 4/25/2006 4:18 AM >
| | | | For the elevator shaft, what did you anchor to?
"That's just my opinion. I would, however, advocate for explosive breaching, since speed and looking cool are both concerns in my job."-Wilkinshire |
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junkyard
Location: LaCrosse, WI
Gender: Male
Strategic Beer Command where the metal hits the meat.
| | | Re: Rapelling!
<Reply # 30 on 4/25/2006 3:04 PM >
| | | | We drilled and set some 3/8 bolts now that everyone and their uncle can get there from a sewer instead of rapping off the bluff and taking the pigeon hole of death. I liked that way but was slow with more than 3 people. back in the day Action Squad and the SBC used some pipes tied together and wedged in a small troll door and a 8in. cast iron sewer pipe, and a piece of 3in angle built into a wall. Now the angle has a quick link attached for a backup if needed for the 3 bolts. As far as having the harness, I wouldn't worry. I've worn mine in the open and we wear waders and raincoats with large backpacks full of cameras, tools, beer, maps, that sort of stuff. Get some strange looks, but never talked to yet by the law.
I drink gasoline for breakfeast and beer for dinner!
Any problem can be licked with a case of beer and a few sticks of dynamite.
Strategic Beer Command ruling the desert since 1995 http://www.strategic-beer-command.com |
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Sherlock
Location: DC Area
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Rapelling!
<Reply # 31 on 4/29/2006 10:51 PM >
| | | | Those pictures at the satellite are insane! Great pictures!
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Freak
Location: Usually Alaska, now MSP.
Gender: Male
Hypocrite
| | | Re: Rapelling!
<Reply # 32 on 4/30/2006 6:21 PM >
| | | | Anchor points are another major concern, you don't want to skimp on those! I'd still reccomend taking a class or learning from an experienced climber above reading howtos in a book (and especially an internet forum), but here's some of the basics.
You always want at least two separate anchors, in case one anchor or the gear attached to it should fail. In situations where you don't know or can't trust the integrity of your anchor surface (old metal, flaky concrete bolts, crumbly rock cams, etc), you want more anchor points sharing the load. You'll want at least 10ft of webbing tied into a sling for standard anchors, these can be looped around trees, fence posts, etc, or attached to hard anchors (rockbolts, etc) to space out to your rope: http://www1.istock...imbing_anchors.jpg
You also want to minimize the angle from the rope to each anchor point. Longer webbing slings let you equalize the load on your anchors and are pretty simple to set up:
http://www.spadout...i/index.php/Anchor
Tie a double figure-8 loop in the top end of the rope, and clip each sling into it. Make sure you use either locking carabiners or two standard ones turned back to back, so there's no way the rope or sling can jam in the gates of both biners at once.
For one-way rappels in which you need your rope back at the bottom, you can buy rappel rings at any climbing store for a couple bucks. With these, you tie your webbing directly to the ring, loop the rope through, and rappel on a double rope. http://www.rescuen.../Hardware/2703.jpg
At the bottom you pull one end and the other end of the rope comes up through the ring and drops down to you. Since webbing by the foot is pretty cheap, you only lose a few dollars in gear and can potentially return to retrieve that stuff later.
Turn off the internet and go play outside.
http://spamusement...hp/comics/view/137 |
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MindHacker
Location: Suburbs of DC
Gender: Male
If you spot a terrorist arrow, pin it to the wall with your shoulder.
| | Re: Rapelling!
<Reply # 33 on 5/1/2006 1:46 AM >
| | | | I prefer a biner-block, but thats cause I'm cheap. I was more concerned w/ what sort of anchors do you use in a building, because I only found one, a structural part of a raling, and although it was solid 5 (max for any single point) on the 10point system, i couldn't find any other possible anchors. I considered a doorhandle, but decided that was too weak, and I was really at a loss as to what I would have done if I hadn't had that as an option.
College is great... Free classes on climbing/belaying/anchoring, free trips, access to unsecured/undersecured buildings, lienicy for trouble... All with a suggested retail price of 30K a year (yay for scholarships).
"That's just my opinion. I would, however, advocate for explosive breaching, since speed and looking cool are both concerns in my job."-Wilkinshire |
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junkyard
Location: LaCrosse, WI
Gender: Male
Strategic Beer Command where the metal hits the meat.
| | | Re: Rapelling!
<Reply # 34 on 5/1/2006 3:04 PM >
| | | | Buildings are pretty good for anchors. You could tie a knot in some webbing and shut a door on it so it can't pull through. Big pipes work great, small ones do not. Door knobs are weak as hell and I wouldn't even use as a backup. Railings on steps depending on how they are constructed. You may need longer webbing to get to something solid, but it's there. Factories are the best. Breweries are better because they once made beer.
I drink gasoline for breakfeast and beer for dinner!
Any problem can be licked with a case of beer and a few sticks of dynamite.
Strategic Beer Command ruling the desert since 1995 http://www.strategic-beer-command.com |
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Pravus
Location: Chicago Area
Gender: Male
Now the two key words for tonight - "caution" and "flammable"...
| | | | Re: Rapelling!
<Reply # 35 on 5/1/2006 5:15 PM >
| | | | worse comes to worse you can also use someone as an anchor.. but I wouldn't recommend it unless time is a factor and theres nothing else right there presenting it's self.. And it'd be pretty risky (stupid?) depending on the setting of the surroundings..
And regardless of the rules that were once told to me by an old teacher, something about the rule of 4 or something, having multiple anchors with pieces of webbing so each anchor takes a lil bit of the weight and if one fails you don't fall to your demise.. normally we just girth hitch something and throw the rope down.. we've gotten a little sloppy and slightly lazy, but we know how to do it right if need be...
Live to Serve, Serve to Live.. |
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