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1 2  UER Forum > Archived Old Forum Issues > Recommendations for Improving the Location Database (Viewed 765 times) micro  Gender: Male Slowly I turned  |  Re: Recommendations for Improving the Location Database <Reply # 20 on 4/6/2006 3:34 PM >   I agree, but I think it would be better if contributors could assign keywords to their entries. Doing a search for "power plant, europe" would bring up a listing of any stations in that part the world. Doing it that way would make it a lot more open-ended and flexible since not everything can fit within the constraints of preset categories. LizBellum  Gender: Female Be really excellent at everything!  |  |  Re: Recommendations for Improving the Location Database <Reply # 21 on 4/6/2006 5:56 PM >   Very good suggestions so far. I agree with micro about the removal of the "coolness rating", and back to kowalski's original post, I especially like the sound of points 2 and (i). I think it might also be a nice idea for users to create, if they so wished, a general entry for the city or town in which they live, where they could place links to their personal websites, flickr galleries, interesting articles, or what have you, and where other users could do so as well. I know this can be done now by simply creating a gallery with the name of the city, but with the new suggestions in place, it would seem much more appropriate and less void of content since it wouldn't necessarily be photography oriented, and wouldn't require us to tick off a bunch of boxes about information that doesn't apply. My reasoning is that while highlighting individual locations can be very interesting and informative, we should try to maintain a broader perspective about cities as a whole. But then again, I just got off from work and I'm in historian mode, so it might be a bunch of rubbish. Again, good suggestions so far. flickrgrrrrl :: boyfuckingracer Jonsered  Location: Back in New Mexico where I belong Gender: Male Dressed for a scarecrow ball.........  |  |  |  Re: Recommendations for Improving the Location Database <Reply # 22 on 4/6/2006 6:31 PM >   I fully agree that any location input by a member should be more in the control of that member. I haven't had any reason to want to delete anything, but it seems I should have the right and the ability. As AV mentioned in his post, that is more of a technical matter, and should be fairly easy to implement. I also like the idea of being able to do a keyword search for specific types of location. Everybody has their fave type of location, and may not be at all interested in other types. I'm less thrilled about some of the other prospects. Atomx is absolutely right in that some people do not write well. Under several of the suggestions here, their contribution possibilities will be minimized by something which really has no bearing on their devotion to or skill in UE. If I can rappel, leap great distances, pick locks, outwit security, slip by dogs and more, I still wouldn't be able to put up much of a post unless I'm a budding author. Regulating the total number of pictures doesn't seem like a problem, although I would think no less than 20 would be fair. I've never seen these locations, but I'm not sure you could do justice to Danvers, Whitby or the like in 10 photos. By the same token, I don't think 250 pics of anywhere are necessary. I'm still in favor of keeping whatever photos we do agree upon on the the central LDB. The system is already in place, and it works, after a fashion. Many of the free photo hosting sites have restrictions on bandwidth, so you get stupid messages after too many people have viewed them, which essentially leaves you with no photos at all temporarily. We already have a place to keep photos. What's the problem with letting it be? In the same vein, suggestions have been made to delete the "coolness" rating, and at the same time we are supposed to convey an impression of the locations "coolness" through our feelings and thoughts. Seems counterproductive. There is no way to solve this problem to everyone's satisfaction. Perhaps we could limit ourselves to smaller, more easily definable problems work from there over the long term. Then again, what the Hell do I know? Peace! Edited 4 mizrabel spelng [last edit 4/6/2006 7:48 PM by Jonsered - edited 1 times] I have changed my personal exploring ethics code. From now on it will be: "Take only aimed shots, leave only hobo corpses." Copper scrappers, meth heads and homeless beware. The Jonsered cometh among you, bringing fear and dread. Mutt  Moderator Location: Bunbury, Western Australia Support your local Funeral Director ----- Drop Dead!  |  |  Re: Recommendations for Improving the Location Database <Reply # 23 on 4/6/2006 8:33 PM >   I am all for installing an image cap on the DB locations, such as a max of 20 per poster per location. This would rapidly put an end to picture flooding locations with useless pictures of the same light switch from 5 different angles by each of the 5 photographers. Some locations such as the Canada Malting plant in Montreal can pretty much be reassembled if need be by looking at the 600+ pictures in the DB. Many are useless drivel, while others are nice shots. If the DB was to be capped at 20 images per poster, per location he poster would be forced to look at their own images for the best ones, not just a card dump. Nothing I hate more than seeing pictures of people sitting in a parking lot of a convenience store with captions like " This is were we stopped for soda before tackling the abandoned building ". Thats a waste of pixels in my mind. All men are cremated equal. manitou  Location: Mississauga/Toronto/Waterloo Gender: Male I was born with an inherent knowledge of every abandonment in the world!  |  Re: Recommendations for Improving the Location Database <Reply # 24 on 4/6/2006 8:46 PM >   Kowalski, while I find your ideas for overhauling the database excellent I see one potential problem: Should we implement you proposals (and I believe we should) what is going to keep people from posting trite and cliched "information"? such as "It was a building for examining psychos; I'm sure countless horrors occurred there" (I have seen examples of statements just like this one in the database). While the preceeding statement may provide a basic description of the purpose of the building, it could be used to describe any similar building and it says nothing new. Should there be more authorial control in the revamped database will there be mechanisms in place to ensure that the content of a database entry consists of quality, useful, and well thought out information prior to it being posted? www.dkphotogroup.com manitou  Location: Mississauga/Toronto/Waterloo Gender: Male I was born with an inherent knowledge of every abandonment in the world!  |  Re: Recommendations for Improving the Location Database <Reply # 25 on 4/6/2006 8:54 PM >   Posted by Mutt I am all for installing an image cap on the DB locations, such as a max of 20 per poster per location. This would rapidly put an end to picture flooding locations with useless pictures of the same light switch from 5 different angles by each of the 5 photographers. Some locations such as the Canada Malting plant in Montreal can pretty much be reassembled if need be by looking at the 600+ pictures in the DB. Many are useless drivel, while others are nice shots. If the DB was to be capped at 20 images per poster, per location he poster would be forced to look at their own images for the best ones, not just a card dump. Nothing I hate more than seeing pictures of people sitting in a parking lot of a convenience store with captions like " This is were we stopped for soda before tackling the abandoned building ". Thats a waste of pixels in my mind. I agree with the cap as well. Many database entries have now become nothing more than a place for explores to dump the content of their cards to show that they were at a given location. This does not improve the quality of the database entry, it just makes many of the photos in it totally redundant. Posted pictures should be directly related to the location itself and have little to do with those exploring it. I don't see the point of posting pictures captioned as "My crew chilling on the roof" or "Mike playing with a wheelchair". This isn't Flickr or Myspace we're talking about here, it is a legitimate database of locations. www.dkphotogroup.com 'Dukes  Noble Donor Gender: Male At least someone llikes me  |  |  Re: Recommendations for Improving the Location Database <Reply # 26 on 4/7/2006 1:23 AM >   Posted by Crossfire Thank you 'Dukes, for entirely not getting the point. We can always count on you for things to go sailing way over your head. I actually read Kowalski's post, and for the most part I think he's talking about changing the emphasis of the gallery from the boring, nitty gritty details to the experience - a fundamental shift back to what UER was like 2 or more years ago. C. I was most definitely NOT saying all the locations are "good"; the best ones tell a story. Good Narration is a plus. So we are in total agreement. What is the problem? Believe it or not, I DID read the post and what I got from it was the typical "remove the LDB" rhetoric, blended with some commentary on how to do it right. The locations that receive high ratings are not always the best; some are just well executed. The entire LDB is not Canada where you have to wade through thousands of useless photos with no commentary, and of course no ball breaking banter going on. [last edit 4/7/2006 1:24 AM by 'Dukes - edited 1 times] I got your tour winner right here pussies, at least he'd crash out trying. Oherian  Noble Donor Location: West Virginia Gender: Male  |  Re: Recommendations for Improving the Location Database <Reply # 27 on 4/7/2006 12:12 PM >   I disagree with the cap. While I've become more selective regarding pictures as I've learned more, some locations cannot be adequately represented in 5, or 10, or even 20 pictures. And I know some people might say, "Make your own website!" Some people, like me, have neither the time nor the inclination to build and maintain a website. Not right now. I work full-time, consult on the side, own a pizza shop on the side, do PA work on the side, volunteer about ten-twenty hours a week, and still try to find time to get together with friends and to explore. I like the database because I can share my locations without the headache of maintaining a site. Are all my locations the best thing since sliced bread? No. And you'll find only a few pictures in those. But some are darn good, and need more. And I can promise you that for every picture in those galleries, there are five to ten more that didn't make the cut. Some locations ... Fostoria Glass, the Keith-Albee theater, Weston Asylum, and many more are enhanced by additional pictures. I understand the drive to eliminate ten pictures of the same light switch, but a cap isn't the way to do it. I find myself wishing I could rate individual pictures (just a thumbs up/thumbs down idea), or at least galleries, rather than the location as a whole. It doesn't seem right to give the first person to post a location the credit because they were first, even if their pictures were horrible. That leads into my next point. Scouting locations to "claim" them is a farce, but that doesn't mean that posting a scouting trip is bad in itself. I've done it a few times to point the location out to other explorers and encourage them to see it in more detail. When I was in Michigan last fall, I found an abandoned factory in Bay City. I couldn't explore it -- I was with a beautiful, young woman I didn't care to keep waiting. So I took a few pictures while she sat in the car, picked her some flowers as a way of thanks, and posted the location in hopes another explorer would be able to fill in the gaps. Dopeness Monster saw the location and took some nice pictures to do so. That is the proper purpose of scouting and posting -- to foster the community and build cooperation. I hope to make it back to Michigan someday and to spend some time exploring with Dopeness Monster. Finally, I believe the comments are one of the best things about the LDB. I love the interaction with other explorers. I feel more sense of community through the DB itself than through most of the forums. Comments from Opheliaism and Jennibel on some of my locations led me to PM them and start a growing friendship in each case. I love to see what someone has to say about the places I've been and the pictures I've taken. And if you come to the WV section of the LDB, bring your sense of humor. We don't take ourselves too seriously, and don't like others to either. Sometimes I wonder if we even scared Turbozutek... "If the door's open, you might as well stick your head in." -- Lil-trouble Dark Shadow  Noble Donor Location: London Ontario Gender: Male M.E.C.C.A Member  |  |  Re: Recommendations for Improving the Location Database <Reply # 28 on 4/7/2006 3:50 PM >   Posted by kowalski So what's to be done? Well, obviously my first suggestion would simply be to can the thing and force people to start publishing themselves again and let creative difference take hold in their individual decisions over what and how to publish. But since that is very clearly not going to happen, here is my concrete, constructive, also three-parted recommendation for improving the database: I have to say that I would have to agree with you on most of your rambling ways however the reason why I posted the pics that I have is not because it gets my pictures up here at all but the fact of the matter is that I don't even know how to start my own website. I don't know about the rest of us here but I for one am an Accountant by day and I have never been very good with code or java and other website languages that most of you know. That is the sole purpose I have posted my pics here. You also say that limiting our photo gallery to 10 or 20 pics would help out also but does that mean when someone posts say a gallery of the "Cold Storage in Toronto" another person would have to make another album called "Cold Storage in Toronto-2"? Hom many double entries are we going to see if that is the case? I personally like the fact that if other explorers hit the same place that I was just at that all they have to do is add them to the same gallery/thread that I already started. What then? ~my 2 cents~ DS ~If electricity comes from electrons, does that mean that morality comes from morons?~ kowalski   |  Re: Recommendations for Improving the Location Database <Reply # 29 on 4/7/2006 4:07 PM >   The limit on numbers of photos that I have suggested would be a limit on how many photos each user could post to a given location, not the total number of photos for the location. Regardless, all this back and forth over photo ceilings is ancillary to my main suggestion, which is to prioritize long-form written content in the database by deemphasizing or eliminating the current collectively-authored information fields, elevating the story content to the front page of the location entry, and tying a user's contributed story and photos together. I laid out exactly how that could in my view be most effectively accomplished, an implementation of which would also potentially solve several other long-standing problems/conflicts regarding the ldb. [last edit 4/7/2006 4:13 PM by kowalski - edited 1 times] Chainsaw  This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information. Location: Underground, Colorado Gender: Male  |  |  Re: Recommendations for Improving the Location Database <Reply # 30 on 4/8/2006 12:25 AM >   What do we do about some EXCELLENT photographers we have on this site. I think some people here are sooooo good they shouldn't have to pass a bar for written content. I'd hate to drive them away by requiring they contribute more than their beautiful, emotionally rich work. Beyond that I think it's a great idea. I think the database was probably created to share location information so you didn't have to respond to each email a pure photo gallery would generate with "where is this" - "what is this" questions that it provides. I think it would generate a LOT of work, with the thousands of DB entries how would we bring them up, or even spend 10 seconds checking one location at a time, that's hundreds of man hours of work. Most active members could do their own stuff fairly easily but that leaves a huge backlog of inactive members sites we would be effectively re-authoring or changing with no proof they are okay with it. I like the idea and concept but I have a couple reservations about a) losing good photographers and b) the huge amount of work to get current entries up to par. Quid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur. kowalski   |  Re: Recommendations for Improving the Location Database <Reply # 31 on 4/8/2006 2:27 AM >   You don't have to bring them all up to par as some sort of mammoth undertaking. I'm sure Av could set it up so that if there had yet to be a story written for the location, it would provide an empty space with a link to the old information and a suggestion that a story be written to fill that space. It's an "if you build it, they will come" sort of thing. I don't think the weaknesses of the current organization should forever dictate the shape of the database forever and ever. We have some great photographers, yes. How many of them are consistent database contributors? I think it's a lot fewer than you might think. I also think that even the best photographers here aren't producing anything of long-term value if all they're doing is posting aesthetically perfect shots of hallways. We need context, we need real information and real meaningful narratives of these places and what we're doing within them. The paradox of this hobby is that the more photos we produce, the more we post, no matter how beautiful or how inventive some of them are, the less and less any of it means. One photo is more affecting than ten; ten photos are more affecting than a hundred. We need to start exercising more vision and more curiosity in this pursuit and in what we produce out of it. The history, geography, economics, ecology, psychology of development and abandonment. These countless photos of the picturesque are entirely ephemeral, they are nothing, they are scraps on the wind. They are skillful and gorgeous and for a brief moment they are sometimes quite moving, but they mean nothing, nothing, until we put them into context. This doesn't require everyone to become academics. It just requires us to stop being lazy, and navel-gazing, and content to just say we went there and here are our photos. No one's learning anything from that, we're no longer advancing the world or the community or ourselves. We're getting crotchety and reflexive and very, very stupid. Is that what we should be happy being? Even the best of us, the ones who are constantly finding new spaces, new things, most of the time we're just being tourists, we're just consuming difference, sucking it out and then moving on. Is that what people want this pursuit to be, is this what they want to promote with this database? We need to stop being vultures, we need to stop "doing" locations and writing them up and saying "Hey, look what I added today!" This thing we call "urban exploration," it should be a mutualism, a symbiotic activity we share with the city, with the shifting form of the built environment. The media we're producing about it should reflect that, and it's a shame that so very little of it does. Charlie_Dunver  Location: Montreal Gender: Male  |  |  Re: Recommendations for Improving the Location Database <Reply # 32 on 4/8/2006 7:07 PM >   Here s what I have found about the LDB in my short time here. I am a photographer who has been working with the notions of abandoned and space since about 1988. I have been completely alone on this journey. So while it is cool to stumble on a site like this in general, seeing the LDB was a bit upsetting. I could no longer view myself as a solo explorer documenting the sites he has been to. Heck, I even have to accept that most of my images are not quite the precious and unique documents I may have believed them to be once upon a time. So I got over it. Now I tend to see the LDB as some kind of community resource where an incredible and vast array of experiences and knowledge are shared. It also saves me the embarrassment of trying to pass off my own stuff as unique thus giving me some insight into editing my own work. It is an amazing thing and I am very glad it is there. CD http://neath.wordpress.com Chainsaw  This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information. Location: Underground, Colorado Gender: Male  |  |  Re: Recommendations for Improving the Location Database <Reply # 33 on 4/9/2006 3:21 AM >   Kowalski, I'm in no way opposed to instilling standards like this, I think it's a great idea, but as my wife is fond of saying...BUT - I just wanted to point out a couple of problems it has. I'm all for raising the bar to keep some of the crap out but hate to lose the diamond in the rough that still sparkles in the muck now and again, almost a bit like exploring. How many trips have you gone on that were just, "I went a couple places and looked at some stuff but it wasn't real exciting?" - I've had plenty of those nights in the cold with no great find, or with someone I dislike more and more by the minute jabbering away in my ear. Just because they aren't good explorations, or unfulfilling at best doesn't mean they don't count. I'm not trying to change your mind, I think your ideas are good ones, but saying the LDB isn't representative of of exploration isn't true, not everyone finds that spark, and you don't get it back every night you try, sometimes the futility of exploring is what you have to enjoy, and sometimes that's just surfing through crap gas station entries in the LDB. We're not the types that really enjoy beauty behind glass in armored showcases or we'd be writing about trips to museums. Sometimes we like to get our hands dirty and sift through the garbage to find it. Not every exploration is perfect, or needs to be remembered or cataloged, but I think the jewels amongst the crap in the LDB is a pretty good mirror to the world of exploring, sometimes it is JUST a gas station, ya know? I feel bad that you've become so disenchanted with perfect pictures of hallways. I still really enjoy them. Go look at this guy's work, it'll cheer you up. http://fugitivecolor.net/ Quid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur. The Lost Flock  Location: Montreal, QC Gender: Male baaah.  |  |  |  Re: Recommendations for Improving the Location Database <Reply # 34 on 4/12/2006 3:07 AM >   I really like these suggestions Kowalski! As it stands now, if I look through locations in the DB I find myself just flicking through pic after pic, most with no commentary or context. I think, "Hmm, nice picture." but I feel no attachment to it. Whereas when reading stories about trips, I always connect more with the photos knowing what it is that they truly represent to the person taking that photo. It seems like a more story-centric LDB could really make it more interesting for random perusal. -Flock The Lost Flock is finding it's way. Scaffolding is like monkey bars for adults. Plytheman  Location: Lawrence, Massachusetts Obey The Deer  |  |  Re: Recommendations for Improving the Location Database <Reply # 35 on 4/12/2006 5:34 PM >   Well, I'll be honest, I didn't read all of Kowalski's post because it was big and intimidating, but I kinda skimmed it... Anyway, I was gonna start this thread and post my own thoughts on how the LDB should be restructured, but found this. So anyway, here is my vision on the LDB. My largest complaint with the LDB is how much detail it gives on a site's actual location. While the Level system was a start to keep some of the sensitive info private, I dont think it has done enough. My biggest suggestion would be to get rid of the 'cities' in the breakdown. Rather than going USA > Massachusetts > Danvers > Danvers State Hospital, make it USA > Massachusetts > Asylums > Danvers State Hospital. Within the entry itself get rid of the street/city/state address box. As mentioned, it would be good to make the entries more story based and by limiting the number of pictures force people to be selective of what they upload. Then you'll have a handful of stories and 5 or 6 galleries of good looking pictures. Locations would still have a little forum area to discuss them viewable only to lvl 3 (or full members or whatever the hell it is now-a-days). There can be a running list of maybe the top five contributors to the location and any n00b that has questions can Private Message or E-Mail those five. That way, control of a building's location, security, parking, etc can be managed by whoever made and updates the entry. Using a system like this, we can still show of pictures of where we've been and stories of going there without spoonfeeding it to any anarchist-wannabe bored middle class high schooler that finds it. Hell, just by using a location's real name you could make it too easy to find. I mean, whatever happened to doing actual research to find a place? When I got into UE I'd see a building on a website then just google until I found out what town it was in. I'd stare at satellite pictures until I found what might be the building I was looking for. Its not that hard to find these places online. The LDB as it is just spoonfeeds this to people and that just degrades the hobby of UE further and waters it down to all the kiddies out there. The LDB should be about sharing pictures and stories and letting friends in this community know these places are out there. It shouldn't give them a roadmap to get there though. Re-structure it by Country > State > Type of Location and we can see pictures of all the hospitals easily, rather than just clicking on a town that we never even knew existed only to see an empty farmhouse as its only attraction. Oh yeah, one other thing, would it be too much to have a 'Recent Comments' button on the menu? It would make it easier to see who's commented under pictures you've either put up or commented on. Thats all I have to add. I'm achin, I'm shakin, I'm breakin, Like Humans Do!! -Byrne UER Forum > Archived Old Forum Issues > Recommendations for Improving the Location Database (Viewed 765 times)  1 2  All content and images copyright © 2002-2024 UER.CA and respective creators. Graphical Design by Crossfire. To contact webmaster, or click to email with problems or other questions about this site: UER CONTACT View Terms of Service | View Privacy Policy | Server colocation provided by Beanfield This page was generated for you in 155 milliseconds. Since June 23, 2002, a total of 738560636 pages have been generated.