 |
|
|
UER Store
|
|
sweet UER decals:
|
|
|
|
Activity
|
|
737 online
Server Time:
2024-05-16 00:43:07
|
|
|
 yokes
     
Location: Toronto
Gender: Male
I aim to misbehave
 |  |  |  | Worth Saving? - An article on historic preservation from the Toronto Star
< on 3/5/2006 4:13 PM >
|  | | | In Saturday's Toronto Star, architecture critic Christopher Hume wrote an article about the state of important building preservation in Canada. Though this is a Canadian article, I feel that it equally applies to North America in general.
The specific buildings mentioned in it are:
Bata Shoe Headquarters - Toronto (no db listing)
Lister Block - Hamilton (http://www.uer.ca/...ow.asp?locid=20012 full members)
Bell Barn - Indian Head, SK (no db listing)
Burrard Bridge - Vancouver (no db listing)
Alma College - St. Thomas (http://www.uer.ca/...ow.asp?locid=20757 full members)
Southwest Point Lighthouse - Anticosti Island, PQ (no db listing)
[last edit 3/5/2006 4:13 PM by yokes - edited 1 times]
"Great architecture has only two natural enemies: water and stupid men." - Richard Nickel |
|
andrea
 
Location: Baltimore MD
Gender: Female
Apparently, I am heinous.
| | Re: Worth Saving? - An article on historic preservation from the Toronto Star
<Reply # 1 on 3/5/2006 4:35 PM >
| | | | Very good article.... Thanks for sharing it..
This isn't boot camp and you are not a ninja. But you sure look like an idiot in that outfit.
|
|
WySiWyG
Account Closed
Location: Welland Canal Southern Terminus
Gender: Male
Hey, like take off eh? Hoser.
| | Re: Worth Saving? - An article on historic preservation from the Toronto Star
<Reply # 2 on 3/5/2006 4:38 PM >
| | | | That is a good article. I wonder what that group said when they found out that Maple Leaf Gardens in Toronto was being made into condos. I heard the asking price on the radio the other day: $300,000 to 1 million. That's heritage preservation for ya. Keep the exterior, but make a profit on the interior.
[last edit 3/5/2006 4:39 PM by WySiWyG - edited 1 times]
"I reject your reality and substitute my own" - Adam Savage [Mythbusters]
My inspiration: www.invisiblethreads.com/potd/ Niagara Photos: www.mhinccanada.com |
|
andrea
Location: Baltimore MD
Gender: Female
Apparently, I am heinous.
| | Re: Worth Saving? - An article on historic preservation from the Toronto Star
<Reply # 3 on 3/5/2006 5:23 PM >
| | | | Posted by WySiWyG
That's heritage preservation for ya. Keep the exterior, but make a profit on the interior.
|
Well else would you do with the building ?
This isn't boot camp and you are not a ninja. But you sure look like an idiot in that outfit.
|
|
seicer
  
Location: New York
Gender: Male
| | | Re: Worth Saving? - An article on historic preservation from the Toronto Star
<Reply # 4 on 3/5/2006 5:28 PM >
| | | | They would rather let it sit abandoned, fall in, or be preserved in its decay so they can explore it more; rather than having it become a better use through a renovation.
Abandoned |
|
andrea
Location: Baltimore MD
Gender: Female
Apparently, I am heinous.
| | Re: Worth Saving? - An article on historic preservation from the Toronto Star
<Reply # 5 on 3/5/2006 5:28 PM >
| | | | Posted by seicer
They would rather let it sit abandoned, fall in, or be preserved in its decay so they can explore it more; rather than having it become a better use through a renovation.
|
Oooohhh ok. I get it now.
This isn't boot camp and you are not a ninja. But you sure look like an idiot in that outfit.
|
|
rainman8889
Location: H.T.S.F.C. Time to gain and a time to lose.
Bye for now.
| | Re: Worth Saving? - An article on historic preservation from the Toronto Star
<Reply # 6 on 3/5/2006 8:04 PM >
| | | | Posted by andrea
Well else would you do with the building ?
|
Would have been a great skating rink. I've been there to skate and had a great time. Charge a small fee and with the right management, this place can remain in profitable use and be preserved.
Gone for a while. Be back when I'm back. |
|
andrea
Location: Baltimore MD
Gender: Female
Apparently, I am heinous.
| | Re: Worth Saving? - An article on historic preservation from the Toronto Star
<Reply # 7 on 3/5/2006 8:18 PM >
| | | | That would be a cool way to make note the original use of the building if it was included with something like residental units. But I don't see a skating rink alone covering the cost of upkeep on a rink, building upkeep, bills, a staff and taxes in the end.
Please don't think I am trying to say you are wrong, I am just bring up some of things people think about when redeveloping buildings. Which is what most historic buildings like this go through, redevelopment is different then full on preservation.
And yes, condos is the easiest way to make money off of a building, but these buildings are in private hands in most cases so they are looking to make the money. There is a problem with the way developers do the renovations, with out being sensitive to the building. There are some great condo convertions which keep the historic fabric of the building in tack as much as possible.
This isn't boot camp and you are not a ninja. But you sure look like an idiot in that outfit.
|
|
Ninjako
Location: Winnipeg
Gender: Male
I Wonder What's In Here
| | Re: Worth Saving? - An article on historic preservation from the Toronto Star
<Reply # 8 on 3/5/2006 8:36 PM >
| | | |
| There are some great condo convertions which keep the historic fabric of the building in tack as much as possible. |
In Winnipeg we've seen a few of the buildings download converted to condos with a lot of success, while keeping the exterior original. They fetch high coin too. I saw one that was being rented for $2000 / month (which is astronomical for Manitoba).
|
|
Hi/Po
Location: Earth
Gender: Male
| | Re: Worth Saving? - An article on historic preservation from the Toronto Star
<Reply # 9 on 3/5/2006 11:53 PM >
| | | | Posted by andrea
That would be a cool way to make note the original use of the building if it was included with something like residental units. But I don't see a skating rink alone covering the cost of upkeep on a rink, building upkeep, bills, a staff and taxes in the end.
|
Maybe an arena for an AHL team or something. Really, condos are very disappointing (not as bad as a new Loblaws location, but still) for the Gardens. I'd like to something at least connected with sports. Too bad. They might as well rip it down, because once it's condos, it's less significant than photos. Even if the facade is still there.
Look at the Chum building (CITY TV, Much, etc) on queen. The marble, book reading gargoyles may still be there, but would you have ever guess that Ryerson Publishing House (published authors the likes of Robert Service and Milton Acorn) once operated there from 1915 to 1987?
|
|
Axle
Location: Milton, ON
Gender: Male
Sieg oder Tod
| | Re: Worth Saving? - An article on historic preservation from the Toronto Star
<Reply # 10 on 3/6/2006 12:05 AM >
| | | | Thanks for sharing. It's sad but true. Milton's lost a whole lot of history through the destruction of some of our buildings
Celer at Audax
Para la Victoria Siempre Alemanes! |
|
defacto
Gender: Male
you're getting verrry sleeepy
| | Re: Worth Saving? - An article on historic preservation from the Toronto Star
<Reply # 11 on 3/6/2006 12:37 AM >
| | | | A nice quotation from the article:
"...Toronto and Canada are missing out on the greater economic benefits of heritage. The fact is that cultural tourism, which includes heritage, is one of the fastest growing sectors of the tourism industry, and one that this country has missed consistently."
In the documentary The Corporation a trader explains [quite honestly and beautifully] how unless 'the environment ' becomes a commodity itself, nothing will be done [at least at the corporate level] to preserve it.
The same applies for buildings of heritage, in that nothing will be done to save them unless they have some cultural touristic value; sort of like consuming culture if you know what I mean. Ah Joni...
http://www.bobdyla...com/bigyellow.html
..
"the verge is best" |
|
andrea
Location: Baltimore MD
Gender: Female
Apparently, I am heinous.
| | Re: Worth Saving? - An article on historic preservation from the Toronto Star
<Reply # 12 on 3/6/2006 1:36 AM >
| | | | Posted by Hi/Po
Maybe an arena for an AHL team or something. Really, condos are very disappointing (not as bad as a new Loblaws location, but still) for the Gardens. I'd like to something at least connected with sports. Too bad. They might as well rip it down, because once it's condos, it's less significant than photos. Even if the facade is still there.
Look at the Chum building (CITY TV, Much, etc) on queen. The marble, book reading gargoyles may still be there, but would you have ever guess that Ryerson Publishing House (published authors the likes of Robert Service and Milton Acorn) once operated there from 1915 to 1987?
|
Well in that logic you are saying any building not used for it orignal purpose might as well be torn down. That is just not possible and I don't think you really understand what the goal of preservation is. In my post I mentioned that there are good renovations and bad ones. Its a sad common fact that there are alot of bad ones done.
And by thinking a building is only worth something for its interior is a pretty uneducated theory. The context of a historic building with in the street and city grid is just as important as keeping the original door handles.
The building means alot to alot of people and has been around for a while. When it no longer becomes practical for its past use a new one is needed. The building is being rehabilitate for a new modern use. If a building doesn't adapt in some way then it is just a big museum, and not every historic building can be one.
This isn't boot camp and you are not a ninja. But you sure look like an idiot in that outfit.
|
|
Hi/Po
Location: Earth
Gender: Male
| | Re: Worth Saving? - An article on historic preservation from the Toronto Star
<Reply # 13 on 3/6/2006 2:56 AM >
| | | | I was speaking strictly in the distinct context of the gardens. The new use should be at least slightly rooted to the past, in the name of preservation. It's not turning it into a museum, but not turning it into condos, something completely disjointed. You can meet today's needs (condos, seemingly) everywhere else.
|
|
andrea
Location: Baltimore MD
Gender: Female
Apparently, I am heinous.
| | Re: Worth Saving? - An article on historic preservation from the Toronto Star
<Reply # 14 on 3/6/2006 4:21 AM >
| | | | Posted by Hi/Po
I was speaking strictly in the distinct context of the gardens. The new use should be at least slightly rooted to the past, in the name of preservation. It's not turning it into a museum, but not turning it into condos, something completely disjointed. You can meet today's needs (condos, seemingly) everywhere else.
|
I understand what you are saying now. It is a shame they didn't include sports in the rehab of the building.
This isn't boot camp and you are not a ninja. But you sure look like an idiot in that outfit.
|
|
Hi/Po
Location: Earth
Gender: Male
| | Re: Worth Saving? - An article on historic preservation from the Toronto Star
<Reply # 15 on 3/6/2006 5:24 PM >
| | | | Your points on the context of the building on the city grid are excellent by the way. A mere facade can be a great link to the past landscape of the city. And yes, sports are critical to Maple Leaf Gardens as they are what gave meaning and identity to the gardens. Sure, it would be truly unfortunate in the name of identity to come back to a city that you knew very well, to not recognize it because every building has been torn down and replaced.
An example of a modern use that still links to the past would, say, the offices of the NHL, or something like that. And no, by that statement I don't mean that every building should become offices.
The term preservation to me relays a sense of protecting something from loss or decay (in this case, the history and identity of the gardens). Rehabilitation in this context means restoring the building to modern function. The two do not necessarily go hand in. Thus, a balance needs to be struck. Can one really preserve and rehabilitate? Is that a mere illusion? Because with many buildings that undergo rehabilitation one can't deduce their significance in history unless one goes down to the archives and looks into it.
|
|
andrea
Location: Baltimore MD
Gender: Female
Apparently, I am heinous.
| | Re: Worth Saving? - An article on historic preservation from the Toronto Star
<Reply # 16 on 3/6/2006 7:54 PM >
| | | | Posted by Hi/Po
Can one really preserve and rehabilitate? Is that a mere illusion? Because with many buildings that undergo rehabilitation one can't deduce their significance in history unless one goes down to the archives and looks into it.
|
Thank you.
There are plenty of buildings that do take on another use, but it is ophiasis what they once were. Again, like I said it is just not practical to fully restore every building to obtain its orignal function. Especially when a function becomes outdated or obsolete.
The interior of the building could be gutted and all new and still used for sports, but that doesn't make it better preserved. Which is actually called facade restoration, this is where the interior fabric of the building is torn down and sometimes 3 out of 4 walls. That is a big hot topic in many city's now. Those buildings are no longer historic. They have lost too much of the historic fabric and are not eligible for tax cuts and other programs typically. There are tons of buildings that become condos, or shopping centers where the interior is mostly changed but little things through out create hint to the use of the building in one way or another. A buildings overall style can normally do this also. Such as an armory, alot of them are no longer amories, but you know it by looking at the outside.
Some explamples I can give are, the Red Wing pottery factory in Red Wing minnesota. It is now a shopping center, with one room dedicated to the pottery from the area. There is also a peice of the boiler still left in the building. Most of the interior is gone and replaced with steel floors and stair wells that meet code, but there are little things through out that remind you of the buildings past. My school is another example, there are like 50 buildings in Savannah that are part of my campus, and they all serve some kind of school function, they range from being old churches to womens homes to old mansions. But it is not much question what they were used for in the past.
There are sadly few historic sports complexes that last that pay the bills and I think it boils down to that in this case. Or the people who promote and own sports teams are not typically historic building fans. I am not saying this is the best preservation job on the Gardens, but in some cases when you have a large building taking up a prominant block in a city with a high tax value you have to take what you can get.
Shoot, now I am late to class 
This isn't boot camp and you are not a ninja. But you sure look like an idiot in that outfit.
|
|
Stewie
Location: Hamilton, Ontario
Gender: Male
kill your idols
| | | Re: Worth Saving? - An article on historic preservation from the Toronto Star
<Reply # 17 on 3/6/2006 11:00 PM >
| | | | Ah Lister, in the national news now? Nothing for me to say, I said it all in the DB entry. I can only hope Lister Block will be re-developed and not demolished, but Hamilton has a bad record with restoring buildings.
> The hierarchy of power dictates that the person with the most power does the least amount of work and retains the highest benefit. |
|
Jef
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
Gender: Male
Hey Look at me....
| | Re: Worth Saving? - An article on historic preservation from the Toronto Star
<Reply # 18 on 5/30/2006 7:58 PM >
| | | | Posted by Particle Man
Ah Lister, in the national news now? Nothing for me to say, I said it all in the DB entry. I can only hope Lister Block will be re-developed and not demolished, but Hamilton has a bad record with restoring buildings.
|
Its gonna be demolished.. http://www.buildlisternow.ca/
We must also go out and meet the enemy before he reaches our shores. We must defeat him before he attacks us, before our cities are laid to waste.
William Lyon Mackenzie King, Prime Minister of Canada from 1921-1926, 1926-1930 and 1935-1948 |
|
yokes
Location: Toronto
Gender: Male
I aim to misbehave
| | | | Re: Worth Saving? - An article on historic preservation from the Toronto Star
<Reply # 19 on 5/30/2006 8:14 PM >
| | | | Can't say I'm particularly surprised.
"Great architecture has only two natural enemies: water and stupid men." - Richard Nickel |
|
|
|
All content and images copyright © 2002-2024 UER.CA and respective creators. Graphical Design by Crossfire.
To contact webmaster, or click to email with problems or other questions about this site:
UER CONTACT
View Terms of Service |
View Privacy Policy |
Server colocation provided by Beanfield
This page was generated for you in 328 milliseconds. Since June 23, 2002, a total of 741880008 pages have been generated.
|
|
