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587 online
Server Time:
2024-05-11 20:22:41
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 pyro
  
Location: Toronto
Gender: Male
 |  | Re: GPS Underground/Mapping Tunnels?
<Reply # 20 on 12/27/2005 4:17 AM >
|  | | | Posted by J Peterman
i just downloaded G. Earth, it doesnt have an underground layer does it? It wont display things under street level as a layer option?
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Nope, that would be a little too good.
"[emo kids] are like homeless people with thier hand out only its pitty they want and not money." -boutdatlonestar |
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seicer
   
Location: New York
Gender: Male
| |  | Re: GPS Underground/Mapping Tunnels?
<Reply # 21 on 12/30/2005 4:45 PM >
| | | | Posted by J Peterman
i just downloaded G. Earth, it doesnt have an underground layer does it? It wont display things under street level as a layer option?
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No
Abandoned |
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GreyKat
 
Location: Minneapolis/St Paul MN
Gender: Male
I have never been lost, but I will admit to being confused for several weeks.
| | Re: GPS Underground/Mapping Tunnels?
<Reply # 22 on 12/30/2005 7:38 PM >
| | | | No you cant GPS underground, no GE doesnt have underground layers. But on the bright side if its a manmade tunnel you can bet your city has the maps and they are free to access usually. You just have to know what to ask for and not mind paying for copies.
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Duke
Noble Donor
Location: Awww-shitby, Ontario
Gender: Male
Move it or lose it
| | Re: GPS Underground/Mapping Tunnels?
<Reply # 23 on 1/3/2006 3:22 AM >
| | | | Here's a thought, your GPS receiver doesn't need line of sight, just the antenna. If you can connect an external antenna to your particular GPS unit and attach it to something you can use to stick it up from a manhole/grate and hopefully achieve a signal. Granted, there are still problems. for one, it may take 5-10 minutes to receive a signal from 2 satellites (you only need 3 for an altitude reading, most receivers will give your location from 2, I know mine will) So that means here's a very conspicuous antenna sticking up from a sewer, perhaps just begging to be tagged by a passing car. And there's still no guarantee you'll get a signal, you may still be blocked from line of sight by nearby buildings. Anyway just a thought, maybe someone can expand on it further.
Contrary to popular belief, death isn't just for dead people. I know I was surprised too! It can happen to anybody! Horses, fiddler crabs, even a potato can die! - Tick
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J Peterman
 
Location: Victoria B.C.
I'm going hunting for mysteries, cover me.
| | Re: GPS Underground/Mapping Tunnels?
<Reply # 24 on 1/3/2006 3:33 AM >
| | | | What about mapping where you are via this: Use an external camera (small one) you can attach to your digital camera, stick it up through the manhole to have a look around and watch your camera screen to see what your looking at through the lens your poking up through the manhole. Then you could actually see more things like street signs and parked cars and storefronts, instead of just seeing the tops of trees and powerlines. Anyways, does such a setup exist?
I'm going hunting for mysteries, cover me. |
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Duke
Noble Donor
Location: Awww-shitby, Ontario
Gender: Male
Move it or lose it
| | Re: GPS Underground/Mapping Tunnels?
<Reply # 25 on 1/3/2006 9:50 AM >
| | | | Actually, not a bad idea. funny that you mention that, check out what we have at my work: http://tinyurl.com/8kb5n
it's VERY tiny, has the external camera included (which runs on EASILY replaceable batteries) It's a solid-state recorder, meaning it saves video to a memory stick (yes, a Sony Memory Stick) but there are no moving parts to screw up. it's not waterproof completely, but it was ultimately made for use as a helmet cam for extreme sports, so it's pretty rugged. If any consumer product were to fit the bill, this would certainly be it.
Contrary to popular belief, death isn't just for dead people. I know I was surprised too! It can happen to anybody! Horses, fiddler crabs, even a potato can die! - Tick
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Pravus
Location: Chicago Area
Gender: Male
Now the two key words for tonight - "caution" and "flammable"...
| |  |  | Re: GPS Underground/Mapping Tunnels?
<Reply # 26 on 1/4/2006 1:11 PM >
| | | | What you are looking for that you see in all those bad ass SWAT things and stuff like Splinder Cell is a Fiberscope or Borescope, basically it's a viewer with a fiberoptic cable attached to it.. you can move the tip of the cable around to look around.. they also have lights in them if where you are looking is dark.. some of them cost ALOT but as with most other things the more you spend the cooler it will be...
Pretty much your looking for at least $200 and can run as much as 2k easy.. Just google "fiberscope" to find them
I may be wrong but one of the cheapest (at least price not sure about quality) is the ProVision Fiberscope:
http://www.eeproce...arch/provision.htm
Live to Serve, Serve to Live.. |
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pyro
Location: Toronto
Gender: Male
| | Re: GPS Underground/Mapping Tunnels?
<Reply # 27 on 1/4/2006 1:41 PM >
| | | | Aren't those fibre scopes usually only for detecting motion? From what I can tell about the particular one you linked to the image is blurry from "over one foot away" so 2 feet and beyond is blurry. So unless there's a street sign 2 feet from a manhole I'm not so sure about fibre scopes.
"[emo kids] are like homeless people with thier hand out only its pitty they want and not money." -boutdatlonestar |
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Pravus
Location: Chicago Area
Gender: Male
Now the two key words for tonight - "caution" and "flammable"...
| | | | Re: GPS Underground/Mapping Tunnels?
<Reply # 28 on 1/4/2006 2:10 PM >
| | | | I think it depends on the scope.. because alot of them are used for lookin inside engines and small crevices.. others such as the ones SWAT, S&R teams and the such use make use of them for peering under doors/around corners.. so you would have to make sure they can see any amount of distance.. the one I posted is just the cheapest costing one I have ever seen, not the most functional
http://www.spectru...ptical/video.shtml
that thing you can see around 15Ft, Which is more then you need to see whats above the manhole but again it more then likely costs a few grand..
In all reality all you need is a little mirror.. like a dentist mirror
http://botac.com/ulinmir.html
Live to Serve, Serve to Live.. |
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pyro
Location: Toronto
Gender: Male
| | Re: GPS Underground/Mapping Tunnels?
<Reply # 29 on 1/4/2006 2:37 PM >
| | | | Yeah I just came on to suggest a dentist's mirror (thought of it in the shower). I think that would be the best thing, cheap, reliable, and small.
"[emo kids] are like homeless people with thier hand out only its pitty they want and not money." -boutdatlonestar |
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Vinny
Location: city watershed wilderness area of Frederick, MD
Gender: Male
| | Re: GPS Underground/Mapping Tunnels?
<Reply # 30 on 1/10/2006 2:53 AM >
| | | | Posted by J Peterman
So what should I do, what are some other methods of mapping tunnels underground. Its important and obviously a pencil and paper does me little good. What do you think about climbing up to each manhole along the route and putting a little red spray painted rock or some marker like leave a pencil there. Then I could walk the route above ground and mark down on a piece of paper where each manhole was...then make a map. A little ridiculous?
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There are several radio systems -- using very low-frequency or extremely low frequency (VLF or eLF) radio gear where the signal will penetrate a few hundred feet of rock or earth -- which are employed by spelunkers (cave explorers) in mapping new caves. Basically, one team stays above ground, and one team explores below ground, regularly recording mapping information. The starting point at the cave mouth will usually be based on/waypointed with a really solid reading from a GPS receiver, and the underground folks will also often use a compass (assuming there are no serious depostis of ferromagnetic rock nearby!). Some of these VLF or ELF radio systems use not only simple "homing" signals, but can also carry voice signals as well; the latter systems are usually called "cave radio".
with care,
--Vinny
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function
Location: Toronto
Gender: Male
| | | Re: GPS Underground/Mapping Tunnels?
<Reply # 31 on 1/11/2006 5:04 PM >
| | | | Rent the movie "The Score" with De Niro and Ed Norton. There is a scene where they do this precise thing, using one man in the tunnels, a driver, and a third guy in the car who has a map and a GPS. It's shot in Montreal and ain't a bad flick, to boot.
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J Peterman
Location: Victoria B.C.
I'm going hunting for mysteries, cover me.
| | Re: GPS Underground/Mapping Tunnels?
<Reply # 32 on 1/20/2006 4:54 AM >
| | | | Yea I done seen that movie. What about a parascope? that might work!
Seriously.
I just need one small enough, maybe I could construct one out of dentist mirrors.
I'm going hunting for mysteries, cover me. |
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Proteus617
Location: HarmCity
Gender: Male
Amphibious, w/smokes in my dive box
| | | Re: GPS Underground/Mapping Tunnels?
<Reply # 33 on 1/28/2006 4:39 AM >
| | | | I did some cave mapping a few years back. The basic technique is to set "survey stations" using chalk-marks. The stations should have a clear line of sight to each other. At each station you measure
1)the distance to the next station
2)the compass bearing to the next station
3)the declination (slope) to the next station
For instruments I used a Suunto hand transit:
http://store.karst...com/surveying.html
but you could get by with much cheaper and improvised gear.
The data is recorded on the left side of a notebook, a basic sketch of the passage is recorded on the right. When you get home, a little bit of trigonometry will give you a "vector skeleton" of your drain system. You draw or print this skeleton and redraw the passage sketch on top of it. Sounds more complicated that it is. A survey crew of 4 can survey some serious passage in a small amount of time. This technique is capable of producing amazingly detailed and accurate maps. Check out some caver resources for more info. If your interested I could steer you in the right direction.
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Duke
Noble Donor
Location: Awww-shitby, Ontario
Gender: Male
Move it or lose it
| | Re: GPS Underground/Mapping Tunnels?
<Reply # 34 on 1/30/2006 12:53 AM >
| | | | I got it, OK here's how you do it, take a little bit of inspiration from previous posts, and have someone follow you above ground. The unit above ground maintains a comprehensive log of above-ground GPS recordings, to aid in mapping via an overlay transposed over top of satellite imagery. Meanwhile, the subterranean unit will maintain in constant communication with the above ground unit via a very complex and sophisticated means of team communication, and spatial triangulation. Said system of communication would function as follows:
Subterranean unit, recording underground findings - "MARCO!"
Above Ground unit, positioned over manhole - "POLO!"
it may also be helpful to invest in a cloaking device for the ground unit that would disguise it as two homeless guys fighting over a wedge of cheese, and record the looks on the faces of people walking by the dude repeatedly yelling POLO! into a sewer
P.S. somebody please do this, and send me the video ;)
[last edit 1/30/2006 12:54 AM by Duke - edited 1 times]
Contrary to popular belief, death isn't just for dead people. I know I was surprised too! It can happen to anybody! Horses, fiddler crabs, even a potato can die! - Tick
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Proteus617
Location: HarmCity
Gender: Male
Amphibious, w/smokes in my dive box
| | | Re: GPS Underground/Mapping Tunnels?
<Reply # 35 on 1/30/2006 4:53 PM >
| | | | Posted by Duke
Subterranean unit, recording underground findings - "MARCO!"
Above Ground unit, positioned over manhole - "POLO!"
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Nice idea, Dukes. unfortunately your proposed mapping system is commonly used in the field of sub-terranean cartography where it is commonly known as as AMPT (analog Marco-Polo triangulation). Especially effective while mapping swimming pools while blindfolded.
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Junix
Location: Pitt Meadows, BC, Canada
Gender: Male
Resident Firebrand
| | Re: GPS Underground/Mapping Tunnels?
<Reply # 36 on 1/31/2006 4:45 AM >
| | | | Posted by Horus
...because compasses don't work underground. |
http://www.smithsjobs.com/smiths.php?p=products&id=47
Finding North without a compass or GPS has been the military's wet dream for years. A "North Finding Device" measures the earth's rotation to determine north. It must be stationary to take a reading.
RUAUER?
"Security Measures: Creepy guy in trailer comes out at the slightest sound." -notwearingpants "And were off. N." -nobody |
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Junix
Location: Pitt Meadows, BC, Canada
Gender: Male
Resident Firebrand
| | Re: GPS Underground/Mapping Tunnels?
<Reply # 37 on 1/31/2006 4:56 AM >
| | | | Or...
You could go the way submarines navigate. http://www.kvh.com/products/product.asp?id=83
The Gyro records relative changes in your velocity. All movement is simply changes in acceleration or orientation. Record every move you make precisely enough and you know where you are from where you were when you started.
Edit:
Sorry that is a component of this http://www.kvh.com/products/product.asp?id=34
A laptop and this will give you what your after.
[last edit 1/31/2006 4:58 AM by Junix - edited 1 times]
RUAUER?
"Security Measures: Creepy guy in trailer comes out at the slightest sound." -notwearingpants "And were off. N." -nobody |
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Junix
Location: Pitt Meadows, BC, Canada
Gender: Male
Resident Firebrand
| | Re: GPS Underground/Mapping Tunnels?
<Reply # 38 on 4/4/2006 6:27 PM >
| | | | http://www.electro...study/ins/ins.html
OK, all of you non-believers who let this thread pass without a second thought. All you tunnel divers and drain walkers and people otherwise lost deep within the bowls of some GPS blocking structure.
Your salvation may soon be integrated into a device by Garmin.
Last updated: 15.01.2006
Low cost in the context of this project means sensor costs of up to US$ 500.
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Last updated: 15.01.2006
... At the moment, getting accurate data of the current position is impossible due to the limited precision of the sensors. Our system needs at least an increase in sensor precision of a factor of 10. We think that it is just a matter of time until this requirement is met by the advance in both sensor device engineering and manufacturing technology. ...
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RUAUER?
"Security Measures: Creepy guy in trailer comes out at the slightest sound." -notwearingpants "And were off. N." -nobody |
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SeeThirty
Location: Indialantic, Florida
Gender: Male
| |  |  | | Re: GPS Underground/Mapping Tunnels?
<Reply # 39 on 4/4/2006 6:36 PM >
| | | | My GPS Unit wouldn't get a proper satellite lock even inside a normal building with windows most of the time. You're better off using them to mark property boundaries or waypoints above ground. Through any amount of interference the signal will not work. I suspect the military's units are somehow more sensitive, otherwise they'd be completely useless once you get under heavy cover.
Now, if you had a PDA with backlighting and all, you could upload a schematic of the building you were exploring. I'm not so sure about sewer or tunnel maps, but hey you could always use the pen and draw one as you go.
12/17/2007 (somewhere in AvChat)
[10:29:47] <Lexi> Personally I don't really like her music
[10:29:50] <Lexi> But goddamn [10:29:59] <Lexi> I'd lick her dry. |
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