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Server Time:
2024-05-10 13:25:23
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 Anavrin
   
Location: British Columbia
Gender: Male
Thalidomide for Babies
 |  | Ball Bearing Inside Locks?
< on 12/17/2005 3:30 PM >
|  | | | Has anyone come across locks that have a single ball bearing inside? For my volunteering duties, I have a key that can open many doors, and want to get into some nearby abandoned dairy barns. I know for sure I have the right key, but I've had no luck getting any of the locks to open. Upon closer inspection, there appears to be a single steel ball bearing just underneath the pins. When I insert the key, it's extremely tight and often will not fit the whole length of the key. When I can fully insert the key, the lock will not turn. Ones that do not appear to have this ball bearing works with a bit of a jiggle.
Is this a common practice to disable locks from being opened? Has anyone else stumbled across this method? Is there a way to remove the ball bearing?
When I really think about it, putting a ball bearing inside a lock is such a strange idea. Then I think about it some more and it might make sense (as you probably can extract the bearing with the right tool?).
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Anavrin
Location: British Columbia
Gender: Male
Thalidomide for Babies
| | Re: Ball Bearing Inside Locks?
<Reply # 1 on 12/17/2005 3:43 PM >
| | | | To be specific, it's a single ball bearing that is either underneath the first pin, or just before it. After I hammer my key into the lock, the ball bearing mysteriously disappears and the lock probably will never open again... I've stopped doing that after I realized what was going on.
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pyro
Location: Toronto
Gender: Male
| | Re: Ball Bearing Inside Locks?
<Reply # 2 on 12/17/2005 4:58 PM >
| | | | I've heard about these locks before, it's done so you can't pick the lock. The ball bearing must be pushed in what ever distance or else it won't turn. I'm not 100% sure but I think you can get past these locks with a bump key http://www.uer.ca/...3381&currpage=1&pp since your key can fit into the lock you're already half way there. Also I don't think you can remove the ball, if you want to remove the ball you might aswell rip out all the insides of the lock.
"[emo kids] are like homeless people with thier hand out only its pitty they want and not money." -boutdatlonestar |
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rUndown
 
Location: Regina Area
Gender: Male
| | Re: Ball Bearing Inside Locks?
<Reply # 3 on 12/17/2005 5:13 PM >
| | | | I far as I can remember Corbin is the only lock manufacturer to do this. The ball bearing is there to ease the entry of the key into the cylinder chamber and reduce wear and tear on the keyway. Locks with this bearing are notoriously difficult to pick open. Sounds like these locks are on the same keyway but have a different pinning.
Adventure is just bad planning. :|
My definition of an expert in any field is a person who knows enough about what's really going on to be scared. P. J. Plauger, Computer Language, March 1983 |
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Anavrin
Location: British Columbia
Gender: Male
Thalidomide for Babies
| | Re: Ball Bearing Inside Locks?
<Reply # 4 on 12/17/2005 6:19 PM >
| | | | Mmmm, I'll get more info on the manufacturer and get a picture of it. I'm thinking that it didn't originally come with a ball bearing because the key opens locks that are of the identical shape that doesn't have a ball bearing. The only keyholes that have bearings are on the abandoned structures that nobody is allowed in. Basically, even the administrators of the building use the same key as I do, but obviously they must be doing something different if they can get in and I can't.
This is more believable (namely that they can't get in either) when you consider that nobody has entered these buildings for 14 years and the people that you must contact for entry are long defunct.
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rUndown
Location: Regina Area
Gender: Male
| | Re: Ball Bearing Inside Locks?
<Reply # 5 on 12/17/2005 6:46 PM >
| | | | Yes, it is most likely that there will be other locks without this bearing. This is a old design and is not being made anymore. (Hence finding it on an abandonment) The fact that the key slides in but does not turn tells me it is the same keyway as the other locks (Corbin like many other commercial locksets has many different keyway variations) but not the same bitting. There may be some level of master keying for these buildings. MK, GMK, GGMK .. Does your key have any markings stamped on it? You may only have a MK or GMK and might need a higher level of key to access all the buildings.
Adventure is just bad planning. :|
My definition of an expert in any field is a person who knows enough about what's really going on to be scared. P. J. Plauger, Computer Language, March 1983 |
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Anavrin
Location: British Columbia
Gender: Male
Thalidomide for Babies
| | Re: Ball Bearing Inside Locks?
<Reply # 6 on 12/17/2005 7:07 PM >
| | | | Posted by rUndown
Yes, it is most likely that there will be other locks without this bearing. This is a old design and is not being made anymore. (Hence finding it on an abandonment) The fact that the key slides in but does not turn tells me it is the same keyway as the other locks (Corbin like many other commercial locksets has many different keyway variations) but not the same bitting. There may be some level of master keying for these buildings. MK, GMK, GGMK .. Does your key have any markings stamped on it? You may only have a MK or GMK and might need a higher level of key to access all the buildings.
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Ohh, that'd make sense! I didn't realize these were the older models, but that totally makes sense... yes, the newer buildings are the ones that don't have the bearing. I appreciate the clarification buddy. Oh man; maybe I'll have better luck butter knifing the bolt open. The depressing thing is that these series of buildings are schedule to be bulldozed in early 2006.
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Pravus
Location: Chicago Area
Gender: Male
Now the two key words for tonight - "caution" and "flammable"...
| |  |  | Re: Ball Bearing Inside Locks?
<Reply # 7 on 12/18/2005 12:47 AM >
| | | | these were in the "what the bump" video.. from what they say a bump key will work just fine in it
Live to Serve, Serve to Live.. |
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grit1
Location: University Campus - Minneapolis, MN
Gender: Male
Got Shear Line?
| | | Re: Ball Bearing Inside Locks?
<Reply # 8 on 12/18/2005 5:19 AM >
| | | | Another company that makes locks that have this so-called "interactive" ball baring in them is DOM. They're mostly used in Europe but have made an appearance in America. The ball bearing further prevents the key from being copied due to the restricted nature of the blanks. Is this an installed lock or a padlock? If it's old enough and is a padlock it may be able to be shimmed. Are there any other ways into the property? Locks can't always be picked but everything can be bypassed. ~Grit.
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Anavrin
Location: British Columbia
Gender: Male
Thalidomide for Babies
| | Re: Ball Bearing Inside Locks?
<Reply # 9 on 12/18/2005 12:07 PM >
| | | | Posted by grit1
Another company that makes locks that have this so-called "interactive" ball baring in them is DOM. They're mostly used in Europe but have made an appearance in America. The ball bearing further prevents the key from being copied due to the restricted nature of the blanks. Is this an installed lock or a padlock? If it's old enough and is a padlock it may be able to be shimmed. Are there any other ways into the property? Locks can't always be picked but everything can be bypassed. ~Grit.
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They were in installed locks, some metallic doors and others with delicate wooden doors. However, none of them have their latches covered and are exposed to butter knifing. There isn't a deadbolt or anything, just one of those always-locked doors that require the key to turn the knob from the outside.
... minus the deadbolt.
Are these anti-butterknife latches? I could get 2/3 of the way in before the darn thing just stopped moving.
As for bypassing the doors altogether, it doesn't look very promising. Again, because of the cattle stock nature of these buildings, they're full of nasty microoganisms and disease warnings abound. Normally I'd look into entering via a dusty air duct, but not only have I not seen a feasible one, but they're probably full of disease. One of the buildings has rotted away enough that there are loose planks in its walls, and that's been easy to enter through. The rest... I've no clue. There are grain silos beside the building, but the exits into the building look five times too small and seem to be fed by a drill-like spiral shaft. I haven't checked the rooftop, and there are no windows except at the front, which aren't designed to open at all.
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grit1
Location: University Campus - Minneapolis, MN
Gender: Male
Got Shear Line?
| | | Re: Ball Bearing Inside Locks?
<Reply # 10 on 12/18/2005 10:17 PM >
| | | | Yes, you won't be able to jimmy this lock...the second bolt down is referred to as a lock bolt, which when depressed dead-locks the latch bolt above it. If installed correctly the big latch bolt will be engaged in the strike plate, but the lock bolt will be riding on top of the strike plate, causing it to be depressed into the lock housing and defeating your butter-knife attempt  . ~Grit.
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Anavrin
Location: British Columbia
Gender: Male
Thalidomide for Babies
| | Re: Ball Bearing Inside Locks?
<Reply # 11 on 12/19/2005 2:55 AM >
| | | | What about inserting a wire behind the bolt and pull it toward you from the other side? I once managed that through all three latches (although one at a time), but I didn't have a knife so I couldn't keep the latches in the open position.
Plus, from playing with the open one, I notice the middle bolt doesn't engage when you only fiddle with the top or bottom and retracts if either of the two surrounding bolts are retracted. Is it really not possible to put some shoe goo on the top of a knife and then try to pull back the top or bottom bolt?
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MindHacker
Location: Suburbs of DC
Gender: Male
If you spot a terrorist arrow, pin it to the wall with your shoulder.
| | Re: Ball Bearing Inside Locks?
<Reply # 12 on 12/19/2005 7:36 AM >
|  | | | I butterknife this type of lock at school, but it could just be a bad install job. I'd keep trying, or check for the obvious things such as hinges on the outside of the door, a hole in the base of the handle for a tool, or summwhat. Sorry I couldn't be more of a help.
"That's just my opinion. I would, however, advocate for explosive breaching, since speed and looking cool are both concerns in my job."-Wilkinshire |
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