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 NoSuchPerson
      
Stop, or I'll ask you again!
 |  | How to make a Citizen's Arrest.
< on 10/28/2004 3:05 AM >
|  | | | From the mouth of the Police themselves:
You’ve heard about it for years on TV and in some detective novels – a regular person like yourself making a citizen’s arrest. Yet few of us have ever really thought much about what goes into such a procedure or how or when it’s done.
But according to Toronto Police, it’s not that difficult. “Anybody can arrest without a warrant, a person who he finds committing an offence, or a person who he believes on reasonable grounds has committed a criminal offence,” P.C. Wendy Drummond explains.
“Or if you see someone escaping a member of law enforcement, you have the right to apprehend that person and effect their arrest. If a citizen sees a police officer chasing somebody, and they happen to be in front of this guy, they can tackle him for that officer.”
And if you spot someone taking something you know belongs to somebody else, you can also call them on it. “If you see anyone taking someone else’s property, you can also put them on notice you’re arresting them … If somebody’s beating the crap out of your car or … if you see someone breaking into your house … you can prevent.”
There are only a few rules surrounding the event - you must verbally tell the person you’re arresting them, and you have to immediately call the cops once you do it.
But how do you keep them there while authorities are on the way? Well, that’s where your commitment to stopping the crime really comes into play.
“You can use as much force as necessary without causing any grievous bodily harm to the person,” Drummond notes. “So speaking to them, holding them, grabbing their arm. If you happen to get into a scuffle and you’re lying on top of them on the ground and the person is resisting, then that’s reasonable.”
But you can’t use excess force if the person has given up.
So how often does this actually happen in Toronto? Drummond insists it's more frequent than you’d think. “It’s mostly store owners that make a citizen’s arrest," she concludes. "You’re looking at the floorwalkers in shopping centres, if you take that into consideration, those are citizen’s arrests because they’re security and they don’t have any more power than Joe Schmo on the street.”
And there’s one other thing to consider – your time. Since you’re technically the arresting “officer”, you’ll also have to testify against the person you’ve accused in court. And that case could be months away.
Unit calling radio say again? |
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Raider
Not Gay
Location: Whitby, Ontario, Canada
Gender: Male
<Intelligent>
| |  |  | Re: How to make a Citizen's Arrest.
<Reply # 1 on 10/28/2004 3:06 AM >
| | | | You have to see an indictable offence in the act to perform a citizen's arrest unless you are told to help the police. Learned that in law class last week 
If it is a Hybrid offence such as assualt you cannot arrest them however you can break up whatever, just can't hold them for police.
[last edit 10/28/2004 3:08 AM by Raider - edited 1 times]
[13:54:15] <Agent_Skelly> Well, a friend of mine I had "benifits" with last fall was 420 lbs
[13:54:51] <Raider> Wow.... that is large.... now she doesn't crush you or anything? Not to be rude but seriously I'd suffocate
4:15:42] <bobtheallmighty> in my experiance there are very few things that are irregular when it comes to sex >_> |
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NoSuchPerson
Stop, or I'll ask you again!
| | Re: How to make a Citizen's Arrest.
<Reply # 2 on 10/28/2004 3:35 AM >
| | | | That's not correct.
A Hybrid offence (sometimes called Absolute PCJ) is punishable under either Summary Conviction or Indictment. Such things as Mischeif, Assault and Theft are all Hybrid Offences, but you can certainly perform a Citizen's Arrest for them. If that weren't the case, security guards wouldn't be able to arrest for theft, and people wouldn't be able to arrest for witnessing an assault and such.
Generally speaking, if you see a crime being comitted, chances are SOMETHING they are doing is covered by Indictment, so you'd generally be alright in arresting them. Fortunatly, trespassing isn't even a criminal charge, so you can't be arrested by anyone for that (except a security guard, owner of a property, or the police).
-Ex
Unit calling radio say again? |
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BigPoppaMikey
This user has been banned. See the banlist page for more details.
Location: Milpitas, California
Gender: Male
Don't follow me unless you want to...
| | |  |  | Re: How to make a Citizen's Arrest.
<Reply # 3 on 10/28/2004 3:43 PM >
| | | | In California, you may use whatever force is necessary in order to 'arrest and detain' the suspect. This includes, but is not limited to, forceful entry into a residence, business, vehicle, etc. and use of chemical, restraints, and other items to hold them until the proper authorities arrive.
BTW, here, all you have to do is say that they under arrest...
BPM
Wishing I was Jack Dalton just to have all the cool leftovers... |
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MacGyver
Location: St Paul, Minnesota
Gender: Male
"Someone go find me a paperclip, a D-cell battery, and a cheese grater"
| | Re: How to make a Citizen's Arrest.
<Reply # 4 on 10/28/2004 5:09 PM >
| | | | Make sure that you know the laws in your area if you plan to ever make use of this kind of thing. In all permutations that I am aware of, the law requres the arresting person to either witness a certain level or classification of crime or have probable cause that they committed a certain level of crime in order for the arrest to be lawful. Here's a great story surrounding an illegal citizen's arrest:
http://www.buggrit.com/rights.html
and to go with it, here's a page detailing information about legally, safely, and effectively making a citizen's arrest. It is written from the perspective of someone subject to the laws of Saint Paul, Minnesota, but the majority of it would apply to nearly anywhere:
http://www.buggrit.com/arrest.html
Like a fiend with his dope / a drunkard his wine / a man will have lust for the lure of the mine
"If you are not part of the solution, you are not dissolved in the solvent." |
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BigPoppaMikey
This user has been banned. See the banlist page for more details.
Location: Milpitas, California
Gender: Male
Don't follow me unless you want to...
| | | | | Re: How to make a Citizen's Arrest.
<Reply # 5 on 10/28/2004 6:03 PM >
| | | | Mac's correct. I forgot to state that every state, province, etc. has their own laws. Be careful or you may end up being arrested yourself...
BPM
Wishing I was Jack Dalton just to have all the cool leftovers... |
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Curious_George
Location: Cambridge
Gender: Male
Straight outta New Bedlam
| | Re: How to make a Citizen's Arrest.
<Reply # 6 on 10/29/2004 12:39 AM >
| | | | Interesting that guy who tried to arrest me for getting out of a man-hole could have actually arrested me.
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Joecat
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario
Gender: Male
DRAINS
| | Re: How to make a Citizen's Arrest.
<Reply # 7 on 10/29/2004 3:53 PM >
| | | | that is, if you were actually comiting a crime.
"Dane, what the hell is a 'sanitarium?'" "Don't know, why?" "We're in one." |
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Viper
Location: Vancouver, BC Canada
Gender: Male
Trespassing On!
| | | Re: How to make a Citizen's Arrest.
<Reply # 8 on 10/30/2004 3:12 AM >
|  | | | Posted by ExKa|iBuR
“Or if you see someone escaping a member of law enforcement, you have the right to apprehend that person and effect their arrest. If a citizen sees a police officer chasing somebody, and they happen to be in front of this guy, they can tackle him for that officer.” |
You have to have verbal contact with the officer. So you have to either ask the officer if they need your help or if the officer asks you to stop/arrest that person for them. You can also be charged if you refuse to help an officer if they ask for your help in an arrest, but that happens rarely.
-With people these days killing other people for looking at them funny, i'd have to have a pretty good reason to try a citizen's arrest.
Earth, the world's most dangerous planet!
"The will to do, the soul to dare." -Sir Walter Scott |
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NoSuchPerson
Stop, or I'll ask you again!
| | Re: How to make a Citizen's Arrest.
<Reply # 9 on 10/30/2004 7:55 AM >
| | | | No, actually.
It says that any person can arrest someone who he believes is in fresh persuit from an authority legally allowed to arrest that person. You don't need to have verbal contact with the Officer. IE, if I see someone running from a cop, I can tackle them and arrest them. Interestingly enough, this also applies to a person running from a security guard, although I wouldn't intervene in that situation, just in case.
-Ex
Unit calling radio say again? |
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Silent Knight
Location: Niagara region
Gender: Male
Kastle Archives Productions Inc. (since 1999)
| | | Re: How to make a Citizen's Arrest.
<Reply # 10 on 10/30/2004 2:09 PM >
| | | | Posted by Viper
-With people these days killing other people for looking at them funny, i'd have to have a pretty good reason to try a citizen's arrest.
|
I say to the contrary. With the obvious shortage of police on the streets and slow response times, I wish MORE people would attempt citizen's arrests when they see criminal activity.
I think its good to promote knowledge of the citizen's arrest laws - many people aren't aware of their rights and what they can legally do in cases like this.
You can always tell when you're watching Canadian television - the actors in the show are the same ones doing the commercials. |
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Mike Dijital
   
UEDB Moderator
Location: Boston MA.
Gender: Male
UE ver. 1.0
| | | Re: How to make a Citizen's Arrest.
<Reply # 11 on 10/30/2004 2:09 PM >
| | | | I think pulling a citizens arrest is silly.
I'd club the shit out of someone other than a cop trying to detain me.
www.deggi5.com / www.mikedijital.com |
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Beryl
Not as fluffy as Av!
Location: Germany
Gender: Male
Uncle Beryl
| | Re: How to make a Citizen's Arrest.
<Reply # 12 on 10/30/2004 3:33 PM >
| | | | Posted by Mike Dijital
I think pulling a citizens arrest is silly.
I'd club the shit out of someone other than a cop trying to detain me.
|
That's fine; that means both normal criminal charges for anything that would be possible, then lots of free money in a lawsuit (with the judge thinking "this guy deserves money from that scumbag, look at how he saved this woman's purse" [or whatever, depending on the situation]) that, if you made it to jail, (which you probably would if you stole a purse, ran away, resisted arrest, "clubbed" the arrester, and called them an asshole then you would almost certainly go to jail for awhile due to Theft [possibly grand], Assault, Harassment, resisting arrest, etc...) then while in jail your posessions would be liquidated to raise the money to pay for the lost lawsuit (and legal fees) unless you had another source.
So; What you're saying is that you'd rather loose a whack of money, posessions, and go to jail instead of possibly just getting let off? I hope you think about it before doing it in real life...
...Or not, of course... I like free money
I haven't resisted interfering before, I can't see myself resisting in the future
Licentious acrimonious puer æternus. Libertine. |
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Silent Knight
Location: Niagara region
Gender: Male
Kastle Archives Productions Inc. (since 1999)
| | | Re: How to make a Citizen's Arrest.
<Reply # 14 on 10/30/2004 3:58 PM >
| | | | Posted by Mike Dijital
I think pulling a citizens arrest is silly.
I'd club the shit out of someone other than a cop trying to detain me.
|
Congrats - you've now justified someone using excessive force while making a citizen's arrest on you.
And as Beryl mentioned...opened yourself up to a potential lawsuit as well.
With an attitude like yours, I'd cheer on the dude doing the arresting.
You can always tell when you're watching Canadian television - the actors in the show are the same ones doing the commercials. |
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Mike Dijital
UEDB Moderator
Location: Boston MA.
Gender: Male
UE ver. 1.0
| | | Re: How to make a Citizen's Arrest.
<Reply # 15 on 10/30/2004 4:06 PM >
| | | | i'd tell the dude to get a life. im from Boston, we're world champs, eat shit.
thats exactily what I would tell him
www.deggi5.com / www.mikedijital.com |
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MatC
Nobler Donor
Location: ENY
Gender: Male
Accepted everywhere
| | | Re: How to make a Citizen's Arrest.
<Reply # 16 on 10/30/2004 5:22 PM >
| | | | Posted by Silent Knight
Congrats - you've now justified someone using excessive force while making a citizen's arrest on you.
...
With an attitude like yours, I'd cheer on the dude doing the arresting.
|
Aw, man... let's not start this flame war again.  Y'all kinda had to know that he wasn't actually advocating committing crimes for the sole purpose of then beating up the random dude on the street that tried to arrest him.
I've met Mike and he's a decent guy, but I think it's clear by now that he's never going to give anyone a straight answer on this forum. So rather than turning this into a flame war, let's just all settle down and -- hey! -- maybe go explore something.
-- Mat
"We shall not cease from exploration / And the end of all our exploring / Will be to arrive where we started / And know the place for the first time."
- T.S. Eliot, excerpt from "Little Gidding" |
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Live in Asylum
Location: Stratford, CT
Gender: Male
| | | | Re: How to make a Citizen's Arrest.
<Reply # 17 on 10/30/2004 5:34 PM >
| | | | Seriously, how is it up to the regular citizen to decied if someone is commiting a crime, they may just see a small part of the situation, try and make an arrest, get clubbed to death and in the end it turns out the suspect is really innocent? fuck that, unless i see someone killing, raping, or outrightly stealing from anywhere else than an abandoned building im not doing shit. I would club the shit out of anyone other than a cop trying to arrest me as well... P.S. you all must be real model citizens taking so much time to discuss how to make a proper citizens arrest, oh yea how does this have anything to do with UE? I would love to see someone i was exploring a place with try and arrest me if they saw me take something... heh
TK |
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-MisfitStyle-
| | Re: How to make a Citizen's Arrest.
<Reply # 18 on 10/30/2004 5:52 PM >
| | | | Posted by Live in Asylum
Seriously, how is it up to the regular citizen to decied if someone is commiting a crime, they may just see a small part of the situation, try and make an arrest, get clubbed to death and in the end it turns out the suspect is really innocent? fuck that, unless i see someone killing, raping, or outrightly stealing from anywhere else than an abandoned building im not doing shit. I would club the shit out of anyone other than a cop trying to arrest me as well... P.S. you all must be real model citizens taking so much time to discuss how to make a proper citizens arrest, oh yea how does this have anything to do with UE? I would love to see someone i was exploring a place with try and arrest me if they saw me take something... heh
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Actually, I think the entire purpose of discussing citizen's arrests is because of the very nature of UE. We commit illegal activities, and as such are opening ourselves up to situations where we might have to deal with a citizen attempting to arrest us. Knowing the law surrounding such a situation is important, if not vital, to anyone who considers themselves a prepared explorer.
Legal information, in some cases, can be more important than any gear.
"I feel like I just got in a battle of wits with some kid in a helmet I found licking a window."
Need help? Please use the Contact a Mod forum — I'm slow to see PMs. |
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Mike Dijital
UEDB Moderator
Location: Boston MA.
Gender: Male
UE ver. 1.0
| | | Re: How to make a Citizen's Arrest.
<Reply # 19 on 10/30/2004 6:17 PM >
| | | | Posted by MatC
Aw, man... let's not start this flame war again. Y'all kinda had to know that he wasn't actually advocating committing crimes for the sole purpose of then beating up the random dude on the street that tried to arrest him.
I've met Mike and he's a decent guy, but I think it's clear by now that he's never going to give anyone a straight answer on this forum. So rather than turning this into a flame war, let's just all settle down and -- hey! -- maybe go explore something.
-- Mat
|
Finally someone understands me
Matt C is accepted everywhere.
I posted that because Ihighly doubt in my life I will ever came into that situation
www.deggi5.com / www.mikedijital.com |
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