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UER Forum > Archived Rookie Forum > n00b - Question "Asking for Permission?" (Viewed 2733 times)
Air 


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Re: n00b - Question "Asking for Permission?"
<Reply # 20 on 10/31/2012 11:18 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
There are some spots where you will never be able to get in, so it's worth asking. Then there are other spots where you will probably be denied and you have to ask yourself if it's worth the risk to try it. Stop caring what a bunch of people on the internet think .
[last edit 10/31/2012 11:18 PM by Air - edited 1 times]

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batman4295 


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Re: n00b - Question "Asking for Permission?"
<Reply # 21 on 11/2/2012 10:55 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by Tenebrae


Thanks for the advice. I will definitely do the above (as well as collecting information about them) if I ever go back.
Do you happen to know if it's legal to make someone erase photos taken from a public road in the US?


I'm not trying to start a flame war, but that was bad advice... If you think a small army of armed private security was pissed when you were just there, see how pissed they get when you start ranting about the constitution. Law suits are one thing, but they often come after a significant ass beating.

My advice would be to avoid getting into that situation again.

Is it legal to make you erase your photos? No.
Is it possible that they take your camera, smash it, and they don't care about your legal rights? Yup!

It's a lot harder to sue some people, and win, than you think.

sleeperspirit 


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Re: n00b - Question "Asking for Permission?"
<Reply # 22 on 11/4/2012 11:53 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
My usual way I go about an explore is this, I find it, scout it alittle bit then (if it's a house, farm etc) and in view of a busy road or homes nearby I will go to the neighbors and ask them about the property. More often than not one of them owns it or knows who owns it. Then I have a "I'm an amateur photographer etc... " line I give them. Most people are really friendly and will let you roam around a bit and u can even get some history or a good story out of them. Once and awhile u can come across some folks who react like you killed there dog and u politely say no problem and thanks for your time then (depending how threatening they are) I will come back another day and just check the location out but be extra careful. Trust me it's never a good thing to get caught by a property owner. It's muchhh worse than a cop or security guard.

EsseXploreR 


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Re: n00b - Question "Asking for Permission?"
<Reply # 23 on 11/13/2012 9:50 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
I got permission to visit a jail in the process of demo a year or so back. It was cool. I got to see things that I have never seen before. Hell, I got to see things that nobody had seen since the inside of the building was redone in the 30's. The only reason I thought of getting permission there is that I had already been caught on the property, and didn't want to risk getting caught again.

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Alleta 


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Re: n00b - Question "Asking for Permission?"
<Reply # 24 on 11/13/2012 11:48 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
I'm working on a masters in landscape geography, and I'm focusing on decaying landscapes. I find that when I ask and explain why, most security guys and owners are pretty cool about it. When I ask, I try and show that ive done some research on the property in question, which gives me a bit more cred. I only ask for stuff that's related to my thesis, though, so no luck with jails and schools yet.

McNulty 

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Re: n00b - Question "Asking for Permission?"
<Reply # 25 on 11/14/2012 1:25 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Permission is the bomb to see places you just are not going to see otherwise.

Permission has gotten me in three old prisons that are semi active in one way or another and just were never going to happen illegally. Active Kirkbride Asylums, vacant hospitals, mills, theaters, and churches.

I also have been rejected but so far it has done no harm. In fact, once at a leather tannery the guard would not let us in but did let us take exteriors from just outside the guard booth inside the fence. Got to see that he had no CCTV, no alarms, and take photos to tell me his line of sight.



Juche 


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Re: n00b - Question "Asking for Permission?"
<Reply # 26 on 11/17/2012 3:30 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
This is where it plays to work your contacts. A friend of mine is a Mason and let me poke around the Masonic Lodge after hours. Once you've built up a reputation for being trustworthy and respectful, things can snowball.

CatAndTie 


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Re: n00b - Question "Asking for Permission?"
<Reply # 27 on 11/19/2012 1:11 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by Tenebrae


Thanks for the advice. I will definitely do the above (as well as collecting information about them) if I ever go back.
Do you happen to know if it's legal to make someone erase photos taken from a public road in the US?


My question is can any security or police actually legally make you erase your pictures/video in the US?

I could understand something like a top secret site or the like.

I've had about a 60/40-70/30 success rate for asking for permission. I'm working on a documentary so it might work for my favor in some instances, and against me in others, but I think I have been coming out on top if anything because sometimes a place is not possible without permission. It doesn't hurt to ask really.

I first see if I can access the site myself, and if not, then ask.

"Man cannot discover new oceans unless he has the courage to lose sight of the shore." - Andre Gide
philbegas 


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Re: n00b - Question "Asking for Permission?"
<Reply # 28 on 11/22/2012 12:41 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
I should really start doing that. I do, after all, work for a property management/real estate company.

EVmAN 


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Re: n00b - Question "Asking for Permission?"
<Reply # 29 on 11/22/2012 5:48 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by CatAndTie


My question is can any security or police actually legally make you erase your pictures/video in the US?



When taken from a public area? We wouldn't have Google street view if that were the case. As for inside, I don't think they would care unless there's something sensitive about the place (eg military facility.) Other than that, I don't think they can or would ask you to erase your photos.

The sign said "Anybody caught trespassin will be shot on sight"
So I jumped on the fence and I yelled at the house,
"Hey! What gives you the right?" http://www.flickr.com/photos/evman/
batman4295 


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Re: n00b - Question "Asking for Permission?"
<Reply # 30 on 11/25/2012 5:03 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
The question of what security can legally do is tough. If you're caught by security and they take your camera all together, and let you go... What are you going to do? Are you gonna go to the cops and say, "I broke into this place and the security guards took my camera." If the security guard denies it, it's going to be your word against theirs. My guess is that the cops won't take your side.

I'm sure a bunch of people will just post and say that you can just sue them if they "violate your rights". It's not really that easy. By nature of the fact that you're (hypothetically) trespassing, you're gonna have a hell of a time proving anything, unless they physically hurt you.

All that said, I would make sure you either have a blank memory card, or have everything backed up, before you go. If given the option to delete your pics and leave, I would chalk it up as a near miss. If they take your camera or break it, good luck getting it back.

Tenebrae 


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Re: n00b - Question "Asking for Permission?"
<Reply # 31 on 11/26/2012 2:21 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by EVmAN


When taken from a public area? We wouldn't have Google street view if that were the case. As for inside, I don't think they would care unless there's something sensitive about the place (eg military facility.) Other than that, I don't think they can or would ask you to erase your photos.


But I was on a public road while photographing and was told I had to delete the photos...
Really, if the facility is that sensitive; they're humped, as anyone may view it while driving by.

Se7eN 


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Re: n00b - Question "Asking for Permission?"
<Reply # 32 on 11/29/2012 12:42 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Tenebrae you were pretty well fucked with. They had no right to block your vehicle, erase you photos, or tell you you couldnt be there, the catch is you had to be on a public road. If it was private or part of their property then they can pretty much still do none of those things, however they have every right to take your info, tell you to leave, and tell the cops you were tresspassing. They are not cops, if you dont have the right to do it, then technically neither do they.
[last edit 11/29/2012 12:43 PM by Se7eN - edited 1 times]

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Abby Normal 


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Re: n00b - Question "Asking for Permission?"
<Reply # 33 on 11/29/2012 9:40 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by Tenebrae


But I was on a public road while photographing and was told I had to delete the photos...
Really, if the facility is that sensitive; they're humped, as anyone may view it while driving by.


Not just no, but HELL NO. I would contend that private owners have no right to demand that you delete photos. Ditto with private security. Law enforcement really doesn't have the right to either, unless they can somehow claim national security. Homeland Security laws have changed things...

All this said, people in "authority" positions think they have the right to do all sorts of things they legally don't. The question becomes whether it's worth it to you to fight it. You can tell private owners and security to pound sand. Law enforcement is a bit difference since they can charge you with obstructing or other such nonsense.

If you are on private property, things are different....

Abby Normal


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Keaven 


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Re: n00b - Question "Asking for Permission?"
<Reply # 34 on 11/30/2012 1:39 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
If you are on public property, there are a few subjects you can't legally photograph. Military bases and certain government security measures fit into this category. Even if you are across the street from the Federal building and you use a long lens to shoot people going through the metal detector, it is illegal. Even if the feds have contracted with a private company to provide security at the building, for some purposes, the security guy would be considered an agent of the government. Having witnessed your crime, he would have the authority to cross the street and confront you. He could tell you "erase those photos" and failing to comply could result in your arrest.



Tenebrae 


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Re: n00b - Question "Asking for Permission?"
<Reply # 35 on 12/3/2012 2:23 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by Se7eN
Tenebrae you were pretty well fucked with. They had no right to block your vehicle, erase you photos, or tell you you couldnt be there, the catch is you had to be on a public road. If it was private or part of their property then they can pretty much still do none of those things, however they have every right to take your info, tell you to leave, and tell the cops you were tresspassing. They are not cops, if you dont have the right to do it, then technically neither do they.


We had pulled onto the shoulder of a public road; perhaps the shoulder may have been considered private, as it was flanked by fencing topped with barbed wire?

Tenebrae 


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Re: n00b - Question "Asking for Permission?"
<Reply # 36 on 12/3/2012 2:25 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by Abby Normal


Not just no, but HELL NO. I would contend that private owners have no right to demand that you delete photos. Ditto with private security. Law enforcement really doesn't have the right to either, unless they can somehow claim national security. Homeland Security laws have changed things...

All this said, people in "authority" positions think they have the right to do all sorts of things they legally don't. The question becomes whether it's worth it to you to fight it. You can tell private owners and security to pound sand. Law enforcement is a bit difference since they can charge you with obstructing or other such nonsense.

If you are on private property, things are different....

Abby Normal



I think one of the guys did claim a national security connection as "infrastructure"... but it surprised the heck out of me.

Tenebrae 


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Re: n00b - Question "Asking for Permission?"
<Reply # 37 on 12/3/2012 2:27 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by Keaven
If you are on public property, there are a few subjects you can't legally photograph. Military bases and certain government security measures fit into this category. Even if you are across the street from the Federal building and you use a long lens to shoot people going through the metal detector, it is illegal. Even if the feds have contracted with a private company to provide security at the building, for some purposes, the security guy would be considered an agent of the government. Having witnessed your crime, he would have the authority to cross the street and confront you. He could tell you "erase those photos" and failing to comply could result in your arrest.




Ah... this may be the explanation, then. Makes sense, thanks.

McNulty 

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Re: n00b - Question "Asking for Permission?"
<Reply # 38 on 12/3/2012 6:15 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by Tenebrae


But I was on a public road while photographing and was told I had to delete the photos...
Really, if the facility is that sensitive; they're humped, as anyone may view it while driving by.


If it was just some security guard you should have told them to go fuck off and threatened to call the contact your attorney to press charges for unlawful detainment if they refused to let you go.

America got reality stupid since 9/11 and "national security" became an excuse to start moving towards a police state and instituting policies that don't actually matter but make the sheeple feel good. I can get aerial photos of most key infastructure on bing that would have made the KGB cream in their pants 30 years ago. If a terrorist cell is going to fuck us up they are going to fuck us up, just how it is. I hate that this country is treating citizens as though we are living in a war zone.

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Re: n00b - Question "Asking for Permission?"
<Reply # 39 on 12/4/2012 6:17 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by McNulty


If it was just some security guard you should have told them to go fuck off and threatened to call the contact your attorney to press charges for unlawful detainment if they refused to let you go.

America got reality stupid since 9/11 and "national security" became an excuse to start moving towards a police state and instituting policies that don't actually matter but make the sheeple feel good. I can get aerial photos of most key infastructure on bing that would have made the KGB cream in their pants 30 years ago. If a terrorist cell is going to fuck us up they are going to fuck us up, just how it is. I hate that this country is treating citizens as though we are living in a war zone.


know your rights:
http://content.pho...-of-photographers/

looking for more ways to get into trouble since 1978
UER Forum > Archived Rookie Forum > n00b - Question "Asking for Permission?" (Viewed 2733 times)
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