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636 online
Server Time:
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 SuchundFind
 
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Gender: Male
 |  | Re: Alarms
<Reply # 20 on 6/26/2012 6:02 PM >
|  | | | Posted by pincheck
always have a plan
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Always have plan B, C, and D ready in case your plan A doesn't work.
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SuchundFind
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Gender: Male
| | Re: Alarms
<Reply # 21 on 6/26/2012 6:04 PM >
| | | | Anybody ever tried to fry the alarm by connecting 120 volts in the US and 230 volts in Europe to the sensor. In case you have an outlet nearby.
This should fry the board quite good, and shut it off forever.
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Codi
  
Location: Moffat, Ontario
Gender: Male
| | Re: Alarms
<Reply # 22 on 6/26/2012 6:15 PM >
| | | | 90 percent of the window and door sensor are simple magnets. any flucuation in voltage in the circuit will set the alarm off high or low. the only way it would work is if you found the main hub for the setup and even that would most likely set the alarm off anyways.
edit:
also doing this would most likely end up a B&E and vandalism charge
[last edit 6/26/2012 6:24 PM by Codi - edited 1 times]
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SuchundFind
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Gender: Male
| | Re: Alarms
<Reply # 23 on 6/26/2012 7:11 PM >
| | | | Posted by codi_7
90 percent of the window and door sensor are simple magnets. any flucuation in voltage in the circuit will set the alarm off high or low. the only way it would work is if you found the main hub for the setup and even that would most likely set the alarm off anyways.
edit:
also doing this would most likely end up a B&E and vandalism charge
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Actually they are magnet switches, they will open the switch when you remove the magnet. And as they only run with less than 12 volts, you might be able to burn out the circuit board, unless it's only a switch on the other side as well.
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Codi
Location: Moffat, Ontario
Gender: Male
| | Re: Alarms
<Reply # 24 on 6/26/2012 7:16 PM >
| | | | there is. basically the circuit runs into a relay on the board. the relay and in most cases a small overload heater will take the damage to prevent most damage to the actual board. yes you will burn the overload out to the point of needing replacement but it will still set off the alarm.
[last edit 6/26/2012 7:19 PM by Codi - edited 1 times]
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SuchundFind
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Gender: Male
| | Re: Alarms
<Reply # 25 on 6/26/2012 7:23 PM >
| | | | Posted by codi_7
there is. basically the circuit runs into a relay on the board. the relay and in most cases a small overload heater will take the damage to prevent most damage to the actual board. yes you will burn the overload out to the point of needing replacement but it will still set off the alarm.
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Did you ever try it so you know it?
As I am probably not the first one that had this idea.
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Codi
Location: Moffat, Ontario
Gender: Male
| | Re: Alarms
<Reply # 26 on 6/26/2012 7:29 PM >
| | | | Posted by SuchundFind
Did you ever try it so you know it?
As I am probably not the first one that had this idea.
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no i sell it. i know the ins and out of the product and the basic setup of the units. manufactures make the product to make sure that people can not by pass the system. as well even in some way the on site system is compromised a signal is sent to an alarm company.
[last edit 6/26/2012 7:30 PM by Codi - edited 1 times]
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SuchundFind
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Gender: Male
| | Re: Alarms
<Reply # 27 on 6/26/2012 7:41 PM >
| | | | Posted by codi_7
no i sell it. i know the ins and out of the product and the basic setup of the units. manufactures make the product to make sure that people can not by pass the system. as well even in some way the on site system is compromised a signal is sent to an alarm company.
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How about high frequency interference send on the line, could this interfere with the circuit board? Like when I use a 100 watt transmitter and send a signal on this line like an antenna?
Have you ever tried this?
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Codi
Location: Moffat, Ontario
Gender: Male
| | Re: Alarms
<Reply # 28 on 6/26/2012 8:02 PM >
| | | | like i said before any anomalies will mostly trigger the alarm. i would not recommend playing with one. i haven't tried to bypass an alarm and i will
not try.
as well why go through all the trouble to by pass an alarm we are explorers not
bank robbers....
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SuchundFind
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Gender: Male
| | Re: Alarms
<Reply # 29 on 6/26/2012 8:27 PM >
| | | | Posted by codi_7
like i said before any anomalies will mostly trigger the alarm. i would not recommend playing with one. i haven't tried to bypass an alarm and i will
not try.
as well why go through all the trouble to by pass an alarm we are explorers not
bank robbers....
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This is the tech geek in me that would like to know. And as I don't want to by one only to test this, I thought you might know if someone tested this before.
I know they test having a transmitter next to it, but not trying to transmit on there input lines. This would be an interesting experience.
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Codi
Location: Moffat, Ontario
Gender: Male
| | Re: Alarms
<Reply # 30 on 6/26/2012 8:40 PM >
| | | | ok, i still wouldn't recommend playing with an alarm you will have cop or security there.
regarding frequency, depending on the strength, you can cause 'noise' on the wiring. the setup is basically very similar to a phone line but shielding on the wiring is more high tech and in industrial and commercial applications ran through EMT conduit. on most cases the frequencies from the products that were in the factories or commercial will cause higher 'noise' on the line then something that a person can get their hand on.
that being said it basically impossible to cause something on the security line without tapping into the actually system physically.
[last edit 6/26/2012 8:42 PM by Codi - edited 1 times]
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Darkheart
Location: Syracuse, New York
Gender: Male
| | Re: Alarms
<Reply # 31 on 6/26/2012 10:40 PM >
| | | | I used to install security systems. There are a few things to know about security systems.
- Systems need an AC power source. Systems that run on batteries won't last longer then a few days.
- The door and window contacts that are used now a days are magnetic. However it's not easy to trick the contact by using another magnet or other means.
- A true security system needs to contact a main office. (When the alarm is triggered the system calls a central office who then calls the police.) Normally, systems use a phone land line. Many systems are now using a cell based communication system.
- Some system my just be a sounder system that sounds a horn and nothing else.
Any other questions feel free to send me message. I will only answer certain questions however. I won't answer questions that may lead to house breaking.
The process of delving into the black abyss is to me the keenest form of fascination. - H.P. Lovercraft |
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buddykermit
Location: Mid Atlantic
Gender: Male
"hey dude watch this"
| | Re: Alarms
<Reply # 32 on 6/27/2012 1:19 AM >
| | | | if you guys download torrents i highly recommend locks,safes & security. it will explain everything known to man about locks, safes & security. as for tripping alarms... often times businesses are charged for false alarms. keep triggering one and falling back. the alarm police will eventually stop responding. 90%+ alarm calls turn out to be false alarms and the police generally just do a perimeter search for forced entry...
When one man, for whatever reason,
has the opportunity to lead an extraordinary life,
he has no right to keep it to himself |
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The Bean
  
Location: Austin TX
Gender: Male
Some dude with a camera
| |  | Re: Alarms
<Reply # 33 on 6/29/2012 5:02 AM >
| | | | I've done a little bit of alarm tinkering - mostly DSC equipment, which is home/small office stuff generally, though their systems can be expanded to either 64 or 128 zones. But most of the knowledge applies to most brands.
Send a big spike down the sensor wire? It'll fry the detection side of the board, but not the part that's going to dial out/set off a siren. It may fry it in such a way that it keeps dialing and the siren keeps going until the power is cut, that often happens during thunderstorms with nearby lightning strikes. Either way, if it's monitored, it's probably going to tell the monitoring company that every zone (at least every zone on that board) has been tripped, along with a system failure/system fault code, and probably a tamper code. When the monitoring company contacts the police, they generally tell them exactly what zones have been tripped and if there's been a tamper or failure code as well.
Cut the power to the building? If the backup battery is less than a few years old, you've got a few days before the alarm is dead - and if it's monitored, it's notified the monitoring company within about 30 seconds of the power failure (less if it's monitored via a cellular modem). A lot of larger commercial systems will have 2 or even 3 batteries wired in parallel, so you're looking at a week+. Even if the battery is just barely enough to keep the system going for an hour, by that point it's set a "Battery Trouble" code - and if it's monitored, it's also contacted the monitoring company with that information.
Cut the phone line? Every alarm made in the past 10-20+ years can be configured to sound the siren if the phone line goes down and the system is armed, even my basic DSC system can do this. In a large commercial setting, they'll often have either a backup phone line or a cellular connection (sometimes more than 1 wireless connection). And retrofitting a cellular adapter onto an existing system is incredibly easy - as far as the alarm panel is concerned, it sees a normal phone line. The modem is setup so when the alarm tries to "dial", it connects to the monitoring company immediately - and the format they use to communicate requires no handshaking (it's not a traditional modem, even over a land line), they communicate a small amount of data very quickly.
Also, even if you run across an active motion sensor and don't hear an alarm, it doesn't mean you haven't set it off - it could be a zone that's programmed to be silent. And even the cheapest motion sensors let you disable the light on them.
Like others have said, there's always the chance the alarm is just a noisemaker. It's not something I'd like to risk though, if I run into an active alarm and I don't know 100% that it's disarmed, even if I haven't set it off, I GTFO.
If you do happen to run across an alarm keypad, stop immediately. See if anything is lit up on it. Even if it's not, they can be programmed to "blank" after awhile. Tap the # key, if it has power that will generally wake it up, at which point you can see if the "Armed" indicator is on. If "armed" is on, it's time to get out and be mindful of sensors. If anything besides power or trouble (green or amber) is flashing and you have ANY reason to suspect it's armed, it's time to haul ass out of there, because it's been tripped silently. If it's been tripped, usually a zone # and "Armed" or "Alarm" will be flashing. If you see zone numbers lit up, but armed is not lit, and nothing is flashing, the system probably isn't armed. Some will have an alphanumeric display instead of indicators, some have a combination. If it's strictly alphanumeric and has power (particularly the Bosch alarms, which you run into at Wal-Mart stores), it's best to just get out.
Never, ever touch a fire alarm keypad - they're generally red, or at least have something on them saying they're for a fire alarm system. They're generally separate from intrusion alarms when you're in a commercial setting.
That's about as much as I think is safe to discuss on alarms. Basically, if you run into an alarm and you have ANY reason to think it has power, GTFO. And remember it's possible for the alarm and nothing else to have power in a building - they're generally on their own dedicated circuit breaker.
edit: just remembered - even if you have access to the wiring to the magnetic contact, alarms can be programmed to have "tamper resistors" on each zone, and often are in a commercial setting. Basically, that means the alarm is looking for either an open circuit or a specific resistance on the line. The sensors are normally "closed", in that they complete the circuit when the door/window is closed - but if the system is setup to use tamper resistors, shorting the 2 wires at the sensor will still set off the alarm - with both a "this door has been opened" and "someone is tampering with my wiring HALP HALP RAPE" signal to the monitoring company.
[last edit 6/29/2012 5:11 AM by The Bean - edited 4 times]
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Yeah, That Guy
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
Yeah, I'm 'That Guy'.
| | Re: Alarms
<Reply # 34 on 6/30/2012 9:37 AM >
| | | | I recall the first time I set off an alarm years ago. I was exploring a building that I thought was abandoned. I have a personal policy of not leaving a trace,so I don't ever explore anything that I would have to damage to get into. There was an obvious open window so I hoofed it inside and started walking around. I had gone maybe 100 feet when I saw a winking red light. A second later the alarm went off. I was in instant evade and escape mode. I ran back the way I came, scrambled through the window, sprinted across a car park and jumped a 6 foot fence and scrambled off into the darkness.
After the adrenaline wore off I was amazed that I had managed to jump the 6 foot fence in more or less one leap off the chain link wire.
Now days I'm more 'meh, the alarm is going off., big deal'. I generally continue walking around now days. Just go on about my business and walk out at my leisure.
Yes, *THAT* guy. |
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vividdecay
Location: Baltimore
Gender: Male
| | Re: Alarms
<Reply # 35 on 7/1/2012 10:23 AM >
| | | | The first time I was ever in an abandoned building I turned around to see an alarm. Instant panic mode even though it was silent. It was an ADT alarm that just said 'ready' and was lit up green. They didn't arm it. Now every time I go anywhere abandoned and see the slightest twinkle of light coming off of something I'm paranoid it's an alarm of some sort.
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Ricky_from_TV
Location: Peterborough, Ontario
Gender: Male
I'm going to try and refuckulate it
| | Re: Alarms
<Reply # 36 on 7/20/2012 4:34 PM >
| | | | I believe if you have access to the main panel if you cut the telecommunications wires then the horn. You'll be home free. Now I do not recommend this as it is then breaking and entering, destruction of property.
When Caught Always, Always Use the Jim trick. |
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Codi
Location: Moffat, Ontario
Gender: Male
| | Re: Alarms
<Reply # 37 on 7/20/2012 4:47 PM >
| | | | Posted by Ricky_from_TV
I believe if you have access to the main panel if you cut the telecommunications wires then the horn. You'll be home free. Now I do not recommend this as it is then breaking and entering, destruction of property.
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Like what they say up above, cutting communication to alarm company isn't going to help it will notify them that the system is down and most likely depending on the situation they will have some one check it out.
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Vectored Approach
 
Location: Morgan Hill, CA
Gender: Male
| | Re: Alarms
<Reply # 38 on 7/20/2012 8:36 PM >
| | | | I have a location I need to infiltrate again. Tripped motion on the main stairway last time I was in. I really need to sort out a means of looking actively around corners to spot the motion detectors. If I can sweep the building extremely slowly, I'm fine with that. I know where one is. I have access to the alarm panel closet (door is open to it, completely unsecured). I should be able to sort out how many devices are in the building by the number of wires (4 conductor) coming into the panel. If I can spot all of them, then I can bring in other explorers with a map showing where not to go. It's going to be a bit of a task sweeping all the hallways though. It's a rather large building, lots of windows, and 4 floors.
I'd rather not trip the motion too many times, or those who own the property will likely get more interested in fully securing it. It's already a bit of a sketchy entry right now.
Honesty may be the best policy, but it's important to remember that apparently, by elimination, dishonesty is the second-best policy. -George Carlin (1937 - 2008) |
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AdventureDog
Location: Detroit, MI
Gender: Male
| | Re: Alarms
<Reply # 39 on 7/20/2012 8:59 PM >
| | | | Posted by Ricky_from_TV
I believe if you have access to the main panel if you cut the telecommunications wires then the horn. You'll be home free. Now I do not recommend this as it is then breaking and entering, destruction of property.
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False - in all but the most ancient of systems cutting the tele line will immediately trigger a "tamper" alarm at the monitoring station.
www.detroit-madness.com |
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