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UER Mobile > UE Tutorials, Lessons, and Useful Info > A really good legal resource (Viewed 8684 times)

post by tx3000   |  | 
A really good legal resource
< on 3/19/2020 4:39 PM >

I haven't seen this mentioned on this site so I figured I would add this information. I had to edit this because it was too long and slightly confusing.

NOTE This is specific to the United States and is not legal advice but should help tremendously in the long run to determine a course of action when it comes to property ownership and possible court proceedings for trespassing. This information could also possibly stop you from getting arrested but is not a guarantee and this is not a free pass to do what you want.

In every city/town/county..ETC there is something called a deed registry (It might be named differently in some city/town/county) but the registry is still there. A deed registry is a listing of every single structure in the entire city/town/county, the actual address, who owns the property (Private or organization such as a bank), tax records, sales/pending sales..etc. Every structure in the entire city/town/county 100% must be listed. There cannot be any unlisted property in a city/town/county.

The beauty of the DEED registry is a public record that contains a lot of useful information Anyone can request including the owners name. I always call and speak with someone so there is a record of the call.

Bank owned properties are open to the public which means you can legally walk onto the property even if there are no trespassing or under surveillance signs. The police can still arrest you for being on the property but this would be a matter for the court to sort out.


I personally like having the information about who owns the property ahead of time, as it gives you a much stronger defense. Because if a private owner is deceased and someone claims to be a representative but really isn't, that's fraud.

The point to this topic is to help people be better informed. It doesn't give you a free pass to do anything, the law still applies and you still could get into serious trouble. so use this information at your own accord.

[last edit 3/19/2020 5:33 PM by tx3000 - edited 4 times]

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post by Rinzler   |  | 
Re: A really good legal resource
<Reply # 1 on 3/19/2020 4:57 PM >

Fences and verbal communication are just as good as no trespassing signs. But yes, the rest of the information is mostly spot on. It could work in some cases but it really depends what kind of property you’re trespassing on.

[last edit 3/19/2020 5:03 PM by Rinzler - edited 1 times]

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post by blackhawk   |  | This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.

Re: A really good legal resource
<Reply # 2 on 3/19/2020 5:01 PM >

If a bank owns the property they certainly can enforce no trespassing as they are the owner.
An excutor of an estate can too... even if the deeded owner is dead.


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post by tx3000   |  | 
Re: A really good legal resource
<Reply # 3 on 3/19/2020 5:06 PM >

Posted by Rinzler
Fences and verbal communication are just as good as no trespassing signs. But yes, the rest of the information is mostly spot on. It could work in some cases but it really depends what kind of property you’re trespassing on.

What you said about a Fence is a myth and what people have been lead to believe.

A fence is mainly used as a deterrent. Legally, a no trespassing sign is still required to be posted. Without a posted reason saying what a fence is there for is hearsay. I can argue that the fence could be used so animals couldn't wander in or out.

Without a sign, the court would have to sort that out. It might not work out in your favor, but no sign gives you an arguable defense. Argue correctly and convince the judge, there is nothing more to say.


Posted by blackhawk
If a bank owns the property they certainly can enforce no trespassing as they are the owner.
An excutor of an estate can too... even if the deeded owner is dead.

Agreed I never said they couldn't, but that is a matter for the courts to sort out, not the police.

[last edit 3/19/2020 5:15 PM by tx3000 - edited 2 times]

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post by tx3000   |  | 
Re: A really good legal resource
<Reply # 4 on 3/19/2020 5:12 PM >

Edited

[last edit 3/19/2020 5:15 PM by tx3000 - edited 2 times]

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post by Rinzler   |  | 
Re: A really good legal resource
<Reply # 5 on 3/19/2020 5:29 PM >

Posted by tx3000

What you said about a Fence is a myth and what people have been lead to believe.

A fence is mainly used as a deterrent. Legally, a no trespassing sign is still required to be posted. Without a posted reason saying what a fence is there for is hearsay. I can argue that the fence could be used so animals couldn't wander in or out.

Without a sign, the court would have to sort that out. It might not work out in your favor, but no sign gives you an arguable defense. Argue correctly and convince the judge, there is nothing more to say.



Agreed I never said they couldn't, but that is a matter for the courts to sort out, not the police.


The trespassing statute says differently but I guess they’re wrong. I’ll give them a call so they can edit it.


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post by blackhawk   |  | This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.

Re: A really good legal resource
<Reply # 6 on 3/19/2020 5:35 PM >

Posted by tx3000

What you said about a Fence is a myth and what people have been lead to believe.

A fence is mainly used as a deterrent. Legally, a no trespassing sign is still required to be posted. Without a posted reason saying what a fence is there for is hearsay. I can argue that the fence could be used so animals couldn't wander in or out.

Without a sign, the court would have to sort that out. It might not work out in your favor, but no sign gives you an arguable defense. Argue correctly and convince the judge, there is nothing more to say.



Agreed I never said they couldn't, but that is a matter for the courts to sort out, not the police.


Depends on the state; in many no sign is required.
Agricultural lands like in NJ require nothing; felony state trespassing if they want to.
Same with facilities that house students or patients.

It's your right to a trial but this is no cake walk and you will find it can get expensive quickly.
Car impounds, all kinds and manner of fun become possible when you piss off cops.



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post by tx3000   |  | 
Re: A really good legal resource
<Reply # 7 on 3/19/2020 5:36 PM >

Posted by Rinzler


The trespassing statute says differently but I guess they’re wrong. I’ll give them a call so they can edit it.

Regardless of what either one of us says, the fact is, without an actual sign saying stay out, it's a matter for court to decided.



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post by Rinzler   |  | 
Re: A really good legal resource
<Reply # 8 on 3/19/2020 5:40 PM >

Posted by tx3000

Regardless of what either one of us says, the fact is, without an actual sign saying stay out, it's a matter for court to decided.



You can say that about any charge that it’s up to the court to decide. But I’m pretty sure if you tell the judge you climbed a 10 foot wall with a grappling hook onto somebody’s property to break in and take pictures and didn’t know you were trespassing, he’d probably laugh at you.


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post by tx3000   |  | 
Re: A really good legal resource
<Reply # 9 on 3/19/2020 5:43 PM >

Posted by blackhawk


Depends on the state; in many no sign is required.
Agricultural lands like in NJ require nothing; felony state trespassing if they want to.
Same with facilities that house students or patients.

It's your right to a trial but this is no cake walk and you will find it can get expensive quickly.
Car impounds, all kinds and manner of fun become possible when you piss off cops.


No offense but people like you are the exact problem with this type of situation. The court decides what happens, not you, or what some policy a state says.

To put this into context, I'll us the filming in public (Which is now widely known) but before it was widely known people like you would always point to state has laws, policies and statutes. It's irrelevant what the town law or statute says the US supreme court says it's legal

The no trespassing issue works the exact same way. A state can say anything it wants, what does the US supreme court dictate about this.

I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm simply saying that people such as yourself think this is a state to state issue and it's not.




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post by AdventureDan   |  | 
Re: A really good legal resource
<Reply # 10 on 3/19/2020 5:45 PM >

Posted by tx3000
Agreed I never said they couldn't, but that is a matter for the courts to sort out, not the police.


You keep saying this as if they are just gonna let you hitch a ride in the ol' squad car to go drop by the judges house so you can make your argument and THEN you get into legal trouble.

As you said, the police aren't going to sort it out. Depending on how they feel or whether they had breakfast or not, they are going to arrest you and throw you in a cell to await arraignment. After that you will have the choice to make a plea. Depending on your plea, you will either sit in a cell to await trial, or bail out through a bondsman, get a lawyer, and await another court date.

The bail isn't free, and neither is the lawyer.

By the time you get to "make your case" and tell the judge there were no signs telling you you couldn't jump over that fence with a grappling hook strapped to your back, you've already shelled out a couple grand in court costs, lawyer fees, and bail.

Oh and now you have an arrest record. So even if you make it out with a "not guilty" charge, which I highly doubt, any background check ran by apartments, jobs, etc., will show you were arrested for trespassing.

But good job, you don't have any convictions.


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post by tx3000   |  | 
Re: A really good legal resource
<Reply # 11 on 3/19/2020 5:46 PM >

Posted by Rinzler


You can say that about any charge that it’s up to the court to decide. But I’m pretty sure if you tell the judge you climbed a 10 foot wall with a grappling hook onto somebody’s property to break in and take pictures and didn’t know you were trespassing, he’d probably laugh at you.

Maybe so, but the fact remains the no trespassing sign is a federal ruling and it's really not relevant what a state says it's why used the no filming Trying to argue filming and trespassing aren't the same things means you completely ignored the point which is context of the issue not the actual act itself.

he context of what a state says compared to what the federal law states are not in line with each other and what gets argued.

And BTW...why anyone would ever explain they used a grappling hook to get into a place, is mind numbing.



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post by tx3000   |  | 
Re: A really good legal resource
<Reply # 12 on 3/19/2020 5:51 PM >

Posted by AdventureDan


You keep saying this as if they are just gonna let you hitch a ride in the ol' squad car to go drop by the judges house so you can make your argument and THEN you get into legal trouble.

I'm seriously starting to wonder what is wrong with you? Anyone with half a brain reading what I explained, isn't reading it the way you are, no one can be that dumb.

You really need to stop trolling. If you aren't trolling then you're just dumb as an ox because you keep on blowing a lot of things way out of context and applying situations and what someone says where it doesn't belong and in a way it doesn't ever apply.

I'm not even going to waste my time giving an example of a cops job compared to court, because you will just troll with that as well.

[last edit 3/19/2020 5:57 PM by tx3000 - edited 2 times]

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post by Rinzler   |  | 
Re: A really good legal resource
<Reply # 13 on 3/19/2020 5:53 PM >

Posted by tx3000

Maybe so, but the fact remains the no trespassing sign is a federal ruling and it's really not relevant what a state says it's why used the no filming Trying to argue filming and trespassing aren't the same things means you completely ignored the point which is context of the issue not the actual act itself.

he context of what a state says compared to what the federal law states are not in line with each other and what gets argued.

And BTW...why anyone would ever explain they used a grappling hook to get into a place, is mind numbing.



Because if you’re caught with it or caught using it, it would be in the police report? You’re talking about the first amendment...that’s part of the US Constitution. So while we are on the whole filming thing, since it’s a protected right, can you legally film into somebody’s window from a public sidewalk? No, you can not. Im done here, I just wanted to let people here know fences count just like no trespassing signs do, to help not get people into trouble.


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post by tx3000   |  | 
Re: A really good legal resource
<Reply # 14 on 3/19/2020 6:00 PM >

Posted by Rinzler


Because if you’re caught with it or caught using it, it would be in the police report? You’re talking about the first amendment...that’s part of the US Constitution. So while we are on the whole filming thing, since it’s a protected right, can you legally film into somebody’s window from a public sidewalk? No, you can not. Im done here, I just wanted to let people here know fences count just like no trespassing signs do, to help not get people into trouble.


What does anything you're posting have to do with the deed registry being a good source of knowledge?

Why is it Every topic you enter becomes a mess due you're replies having nothing to do with what the topic is about.

The only conclusion I can arrive at is that Apparently you came from a family where they thought it was a good idea to eat paint chips. No one has destroyed and derailed topics the way you do with the idiotic reasoning you've been replying with.


[last edit 3/19/2020 6:01 PM by tx3000 - edited 1 times]

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post by tx3000   |  | 
Re: A really good legal resource
<Reply # 15 on 3/19/2020 6:05 PM >

Posted by Rinzler


Because if you’re caught with it or caught using it, it would be in the police report? You’re talking about the first amendment...that’s part of the US Constitution. So while we are on the whole filming thing, since it’s a protected right, can you legally film into somebody’s window from a public sidewalk? No, you can not.

You are official an idiot, because first of all the information I posted applies to the US which I clearly stated right at the beginning.

Secondly I very specifically explained that filming in public and a no trespassing sign not being posted are unrelated acts the context of both having federal law governs both and state laws have to abide by what the federal law dictates..And here you are again ignoring context and using the individual act as a way to argue.

So yes, you're done here alright, you were done the moment you posted misinformation ignoring context that applies to both individual acts as if the state is all that matters.



[last edit 3/19/2020 6:14 PM by tx3000 - edited 2 times]

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post by Rinzler   |  | 
Re: A really good legal resource
<Reply # 16 on 3/19/2020 6:11 PM >

Posted by tx3000

You are official an idiot, because first of all the information I posted applies to the US which I clearly stated right at the beginning.

Secondly I very specifically explained which you chose to ignore) that filming in public and a no trespassing sign have federal angles they follow and even though both are unrelated in the act, the context of what federal law and state laws state IS the point..again something you totally ignored and started babbling about nonsense that is unrelated ll.

So yes, you're done here alright, you were done the moment you posted misinformation about US federal laws and the difference




Just keep talking out of your ass pal


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post by Rinzler   |  | 
Re: A really good legal resource
<Reply # 17 on 3/19/2020 6:17 PM >

Posted by tx3000

You are official an idiot, because first of all the information I posted applies to the US which I clearly stated right at the beginning.

Secondly I very specifically explained that filming in public and a no trespassing sign not being posted are unrelated acts the context of both having federal law governs both and state laws have to abide by what the federal law dictates..And here you are again ignoring context and using the individual act as a way to argue.

So yes, you're done here alright, you were done the moment you posted misinformation ignoring context that applies to both individual acts as if the state is all that matters.




I never said you were wrong with anything? Just added the fact whether it’s federal or state, a fence means you’re trespassing. You need to chill out man. Clearly you can’t take any kind of information and immediately attack the person. Also I guess you’ve never heard of the peeping Tom statute if you’re saying it’s legal to take pictures of someone changing inside their house...


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post by tx3000   |  | 
Re: A really good legal resource
<Reply # 18 on 3/19/2020 6:27 PM >

Posted by Rinzler

I never said you were wrong with anything? Just added the fact whether it’s federal or state, a fence means you’re trespassing.

You need to chill out man. Clearly you can’t take any kind of information and immediately attack the person. Also I guess you’ve never heard of the peeping Tom statute if you’re saying it’s legal to take pictures of someone changing inside their house.


Stop taking situations and then posting extreme idiotic and really stupid examples and trying to apply as if the context is the same.

Anyone that says a sign doesn't have to be posted is point blank wrong. Federal law dictates all states in the US ARE REQUIRED TO have a no trespassing or private property sign to be present and visible.

What people like you have a serious problem understanding is that when a federal statute dictates something that states MUST abide by, then that is what counts, what a state law says about it IS NOT RELEVANT and obsolete to the federal statute issues to them.

You need to stop trying to use state laws to argue federal statues that applies to all states as if the federal statute doesn't matter.

To be clear a state can absolutely have a law that says it doesn't need a sign, that is true, but putting aside corrupted judges and buddy buddy lawyers and cops..and keeping it on the level, go to court and point out the federal law says a sign must be posted and you will win the case.

This is the exact reason I brought up filming in public as the example.

The us Supreme court has passed a statute which applies to all 50 states where it's legal to film any public official and building while in public. This even extends into city hall and other buildings.

Despite what any cop says or sign in city hall says about no filming it's irrelevant as the US supreme court already says you can.

This does not stop cops from arresting you and giving you problems, provided you don't get a corrupted judge the charge cannot ever hold up.

End of story.

PS stop replying with things that don't apply like the invasion of privacy situation you tried using as an example.


[last edit 3/19/2020 6:42 PM by tx3000 - edited 4 times]

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post by blackhawk   |  | This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.

Re: A really good legal resource
<Reply # 19 on 3/19/2020 6:50 PM >

Posted by tx3000


I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm simply saying that people such as yourself think this is a state to state issue and it's not.




People like myself? I tend to keep a low profile legally.
I've dealt with many LEOs over the decades.
You're going have fun if you start talking shit like this to them.
States are given a margin of leeway under the Constitution.
States laws vary, are legal and binding.

The state you're in matters unless it's federal trespassing... even more fun



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