Posted by Aleksandar your lack of specificity isn't useful for proving your case, and doesn't give me anything to work with to disprove it. |
Posted by Aleksandar it is fairly clear in most writings on this subject by evangelical conservatives (and even agnostic or atheist conservatives) that their anti-abortion position is predicated on the belief that an unborn child has the same human rights as the mother, and that the fetus' right to live outweighs the mother's right to choose to have an abortion. the disagreement between the sides isn't about women being second class citizens, it's about unborn children having (or not having) basic human rights. you are using the tired straw man argument put out by abortion supporters to try to ridicule what appears to be a genuine and modern ethical (moral?) position taken by abortion opponents. the core question remains, do unborn children have basic human rights or not? |
Posted by jukebox fuckup can it be inferred that rape/incest/high-risk babies are less 'human'? |
Posted by jukebox fuckup the secondary consequences of having a kid, IMHO. I think there's little debate in the statement that children are expen$ive, women of a childbearing age may struggle to raise them, and being reared in poverty has negative neurodevelopmental consequences. |
Posted by Aleksandar this is heading off-topic, but i'm into it. curious where the resident atheists will take it, too. |
Posted by Aleksandar this is heading off-topic, but i'm into it. curious where the resident atheists will take it, too. in terms of high-risk, i imagine at that point it is triage, making a decision to save one life instead of losing two. i haven't heard an answer in the case of rape/incest that is compatible with the underlying ethos of basic human rights, and certainly this seems like an important inconsistency to address. abortion opponents do not seem to be in agreement on a number of questions -- when life begins, what the exceptions are, etc. i don't know that this lack of agreement or the presence of inconsistencies invalidates the ethical position of assigning human rights to a fetus, though. |
I expect abortion opponents would nominate adoption as the mechanism for minimizing or avoiding those consequences. i'm no expert but my understanding is that, in the case of the USA, every state has an abundance of public and private agencies able to facilitate an adoption when one is desired by the mother. |
Anyways. I feel like neither side is really understanding the other. Protection, empowerment, equality and betterment of the condition of women must be a priority of any advanced society -- because this should be sought for all people, regardless of gender, race, beliefs. I certainly understand why abortion opponents include unborn children in this societal aspiration. |
If personal and social consequences are serious enough to make the destruction of a developing human organism desirable, how can we work to mitigate or prevent the personal and social consequences so that a termination is not desired? As our society develops it seems the difficulties of pregnancy should be examined and support systems improved or designed anew. |
Posted by splumer OK, I'll bite. |
Posted by splumer at what point does a fertilized egg become a human? |
Posted by splumer There is no easy answer |
Posted by splumer That said, I prefer to err on the side of letting the mother decide |
Posted by splumer I was adopted myself. |
Posted by splumer If you want to eliminate them, eliminate the need for them. |
Posted by splumer Sadly, the most religious among us (and Christianity is not unique in this) doesn't agree regarding women. |
Posted by Aleksandar this is heading off-topic, but i'm into it. curious where the resident atheists will take it, too. |
Posted by splumer Do you have a source for that? |
Posted by MutantMandias It says so right here. |
Posted by DevilC Did anyone catch the whole Rotherdam mess? Ugly stuff. |
Posted by DevilC Did anyone catch the whole Rotherdam mess? Ugly stuff. |
Posted by blackhawk Talking about ugly atrocities, let's take a moment to remember Elin Krantz, she was literally the Swedish spokes model for racial integration in Sweden. Ironically she was brutally rape and killed by a black muslim immigrant. http://liefdenetwe...im-african-refugee |
Posted by blackhawk religionofpeace.com A primer for infidels (you). To understand Islam this is the place to learn all about them and why they love to kill and rape infidels so much. |
Posted by blitz This link is dead... But doing a little more research, the murderer was from Ethiopia, had been living in the United States for years prior to emigrating to Sweden and had a thorough criminal record in the US. Also, there is no mention of his religion anywhere (he is assumed to be Muslim by right-wing lunatics)... Only about 30% of Ethiopians are Muslim, so it's more likely he was actually Christian. EDIT: The murderer's name was Yohannes, AKA John. Muslims don't name their son after John the Baptist. That's like a Christian naming their son Muhammad. thereligionofpeace.com: Working to streamline America's war on terror courtesy of the Fred Horowitz Freedom Center. The narrative that all Muslims are terrorists has been thoroughly debunked & confirmed to be an opinion held only by the truly obtuse, insane, or militantly Christian. Even Donald Trump isn't so retarded as to say that. Where in that holy trinity of ignorance do you live? |
Posted by blitz You completely failed to respond to the fact that the guy was not a "Muslim rapist" as you so claim... correct me if I'm wrong but isn't this thread called "Rape by Muslims"? The guy was a Christian (or at least his name suggests it). He killed a Christian. Maybe Christians just can't tolerate eachother? Maybe you're not familiar with something called the Reformation and the 30 years war and the millions who died due to differing interpretations of Christianity? But this isn't even about religion, it's about sectarianism and multi-culturalism in societies that accept immigrants, a point you're CLEARLY missing. Come back to me when you've got something other than vague anecdotes. |
Posted by blackhawk Ephrem Tadele Yohannes, yeah that's a nice Christian name. Ephrem is Hebrew in origin and is found in the Old Testament of the Bible. The Quaran "borrows" many names from the Bible. The Bible predates Islam. Feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken. Think I'll eat some bacon now... |
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