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Would anyone happen to have a codeplug they could share for Toronto police, fire ems system? I believe Exk was going to send me one... but I don't seem to be able to contact him... I think it was one with Toronto, peel, and hamilton. Looking for one for a mtx 8000, or one that I could drop in using lab.
Thanks
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Oh sorry thats totally illegal.. you should buy a scanner...  
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Posted by unlisted
Oh sorry thats totally illegal.. you should buy a scanner...
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How is that illegal? If it's unable to transmit, which it's 99% most likely not going to be able to (you'd need a "stolen" ID to affiliate to the system to transmit) - it's just a glorified scanner.
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Posted by el nerdo
How is that illegal? If it's unable to transmit, which it's 99% most likely not going to be able to (you'd need a "stolen" ID to affiliate to the system to transmit) - it's just a glorified scanner.
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Key symbols are quoted below.
Posted by unlisted
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I don't know the exact radio laws, but I do know there is lots less hassle from police if you have a scanner VS a radio.. I'm speaking from personal experience.
To the OP: (If I had a cpg file to send you, I would.. but I never did get into programming radios... sorry)
[last edit 11/22/2009 10:34 PM by unlisted - edited 2 times]
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Posted by unlisted
I don't know the exact radio laws, but I do know there is lots less hassle from police if you have a scanner VS a radio.. I'm speaking from personal experience.
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I find the opposite to be true. I have a radio license, and it seems to justify having the radio. A scanner tends to be a dubious device.
I used to be with it, but then they changed what it was. Now what I'm with isn't it, and what's it seems weird and scary to me, and it'll happen to you, too! | |
I agree with Steam and Nerdo. It isn't a problem if the radio can't affliate or transmit into the system. If you have a ham license, generally people will let it slide.
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Right- for someone with a ham license. But remember, this is on UER.ca, not RadioRef or Hamsexy. I'm more thinking along the lines of a bunch of explorers VS Ham radio operators in this situation.
I'm pretty damn sure a cop would be more pissed if he noticed a public safety radio that looks *just* like theirs (or one close to what they used to use) over a scanner.. Regardless if it transmits. If it RX's on their chatter, thats enough to piss off a cop. Hell, if it looks sorta like their radio, it pisses them off..
And I am speaking from personal experience, I've had both situations happen before. Had a much harder time when it was the radio.
Not trying to be a d!ck or anything, I'm just saying be careful- a few local PD agencies in the GTA are paying more attention to radios these days. (some idiots have been tx'ing on PS frequencies apparently) There is a reason I got rid of my 800 mhz radio and picked up a scanner..
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Oy.
Here's the deal.
Industry Canada requires *all* radio devices to be licensed. This applies to receivers and transmitters. There are NO exceptions except the following:
-License Exempt radios (kiddie walkie-talkies, FRS, CB and that sort of thing)
-ISM band devices. These are devices which operate in ISM bands, and are license exempt. Examples include cordless phones, WiFi devices, garage door openers, key less entry car lock FOBs, Bluetooth, even your microwave oven. Generally speaking, any device that isn't a radio in the traditional sense, but still uses radio frequencies to communicate.
-Analogue scanning receivers "scanners".
That is it. Every other radio device requires a license from Industry Canada in order to legally own/operate/posess.
So what's included in the "must license" category? Well, some common devices:
-Digital scanning receivers "digital scanners"
-Commercial radios operating as a receiver only - such as an HT1000 setup for RX only on railroad, or an MTX8000 setup for RX only on a trunking system.
So, the argument that "my MTX8000 is programmed to not transmit or affiliate" doesn't hold any water. True, it won't ever TX (except under three circumstances that you cannot prevent). However that really isn't the issue. The issue is that the radio isn't exempt from licensing. This includes only receiving.
Not that long ago, out in BC...Industry Canada and the RCMP were checking tow trucks and others on roadside spot checks (likely it was part of a truck inspection like we have all the time on the 400 during long weekends). Guess what? They issued countless violation notices and seized numerous radios which were programmed for RX only.
Nothing like this has happened around here, but it doesn't mean it can't. We are lucky. The use of commercial radios is very wide-spread in the GTA. All the police services know this and more or less turn a blind eye to it because people behave themselves. That, and the fact that in a few years everyone will be encrypted anyway, so they probably figure "let them have their fun...their days are numbered".
Of course, I'm talking theoretical.
Would the Police or IC nail you? Not likely unless you were doing something dumb like transmitting or evading arrest/capture while breaking another law.
Unit calling radio say again? | |
Also, as an addendum to this.
I see people throw around the fact that they have an Amateur license as a justification for having some of the above mentioned radios. To clarify, it does NOT exempt you from the rules.
Having an Amateur license allows you to own and operate Amateur equipment operating in Amateur bands *ONLY*. There is an exception in place that allows Amateur radios to receive outside of the Amateur bands without requiring a license.
This means that using your FT-60 to listen to the local Police frequency is fine, providing you have an Amateur ticket. This also means you are allowed to use a commercial radio on Amateur frequencies.
What it does NOT allow you to do however, is operate a commercial radio on frequencies outside of the Amateur band on transmit OR receive. This includes having an HT600 programmed for receive only on say, railway...as well as having an Amateur frequency in the radio.
So to clarify, having an Amateur ticket allows you to legally own/operate/possess commercial radios providing said radio is operated in Amateur bands only. There's no 800MHz radio on the market that can operate in any Amateur band without modifications...said modifications would disable the radio from working on Public Safety frequencies.
Unit calling radio say again? | |
Posted by unlisted
Oh sorry thats totally illegal.. you should buy a scanner...
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Proper placement of "key symbols" are key for proper interpretation:
Oh sorry thats totally illegal ... you should buy a scanner...
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Posted by exkalibur
What it does NOT allow you to do however, is operate a commercial radio on frequencies outside of the Amateur band on transmit OR receive. This includes having an HT600 programmed for receive only on say, railway...as well as having an Amateur frequency in the radio.
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I've never read this regulation, mikey, care to share an appropriate IC link?
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Posted by el nerdo
I've never read this regulation, mikey, care to share an appropriate IC link?
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Prohibitions
4. (1) No person shall, except under and in accordance with a radio authorization, install, operate or possess radio apparatus, other than
(a) radio apparatus exempted by or under regulations made under paragraph 6(1)(m); or
(b) radio apparatus that is capable only of the reception of broadcasting and that is not a distribution |
So says the IC Inspector here in Toronto...this means that you cannot install, operate or posses radios that you aren't licensed on. He said that every frequency programmed into a radio must be licensed, even if it's just RX. Unless the frequency is license exempt (IE, programming weather radio for RX). As an example back in the day... CityTV had a RX only license on all the Toronto Fire frequencies back when they were UHF conventional. This was somehow allowed by IC..but it made it legit for them to use their MCX1000 mobiles for RX only on it.
That paragraph above is pretty wide ranging... but here's another link that might be interesting:
http://www.ic.gc.c...-Spring_2007_e.pdf
In particular, this part is curious:
Is it legal to have an RCMP Rx frequency programmed into a transceiver?
It’s illegal to have a land mobile frequency programmed into a transceiver unless the radio is licensed for that frequency. Licensing is required for both transmit and receive frequencies. In order to be licensed for an RCMP frequency you would need a letter of permission from the RCMP.
Any radio approved under RSS-119 needs to be licensed for both transmit and receive frequencies. If not, it's an offence under section 4(1). of the Radiocommunication Act. Analogue scanners are type-approved under RSS-215 and are therefore licence-exempt. |
For note, the RCMP out there are VHF analog conventional.
Unit calling radio say again? | |
Posted by exkalibur
For note, the RCMP out there are VHF analog conventional.
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They WERE. Now P25 with encryption.
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Also, the legislation for licensing digital scanners was a myth from a leaked 13 year old document; it was never law. That didn't stop several companies from insisting on getting the (proposed) licensing forms filled out when customers were buying, but most have ceased this now that the truth has come out.
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Posted by Stong
Also, the legislation for licensing digital scanners was a myth from a leaked 13 year old document; it was never law. That didn't stop several companies from insisting on getting the (proposed) licensing forms filled out when customers were buying, but most have ceased this now that the truth has come out.
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That was aimed to exkalibur to correct his post about licensed/unlicensed devices. I can provide more details if you need.
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Toronto Police radio is not that great to listen to. #1 its mostly jargon and codes. #2 aside from basic communications, most of their data comes as a signal for the mobile data terminal, or on the cell phone. (you'll get initial dispatch, start/stop prisoner transport and CPIC checks from bike/foot officers on the radio, but most other stuff is on their terminal)
Toronto EMS is probably the most interesting of the lot.
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Toronto Police don't use codes or jargon.
Toronto EMS is dispatched by MWS these days, with the odd exception being a Private Call.
Lastly, there was never any myth about a digital scanner requiring a license to use. That law still exists today and is still on the books. It's just ignored by Industry Canada, as likely impossible to enforce these days with the sheer number of devices out there.
To clairfy, there is an exemption that states an ANALOG scanner does not require a license to use, however no such exeption exists for a DIGITAL scanner. Contrary to what a lot of people believe, you DO require authorization for radios that only receive, except for a number of exemptions - of which analog scanners are one.
[last edit 7/3/2011 1:45 PM by NoSuchPerson - edited 1 times]
Unit calling radio say again? | |
Whats funny about the Industry Canada half-baked regulation on scanners, was that someone actually found out there was something like 3 people issued this license in all of Canada. I want to know who those people are and what paperwork they got.
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The same as any business license. I hold one for digital emissions, so that would be my "digital scanner license".
What it fails to mention however is that a license is for a specific frequency, so I could use a digital scanner on my frequency ONLY.
Unit calling radio say again? | |
Industry who? "inspectors" are getting harder and harder to find. Er...harder and harder for them to find you...as there are so few. Spectrum (mis)management has had such deep cuts, they almost don't exist, at least out west here.
I used to be with it, but then they changed what it was. Now what I'm with isn't it, and what's it seems weird and scary to me, and it'll happen to you, too! |
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