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It's been a while, but I had to come back here because of this...
Godspeed Ryan, where ever you may be now.
To your friends and family, I will keep you in my thoughts.
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Wow, I just heard about this incident. Very sad indeed. A reminder to the rest of us to be alert and careful while out in the wild.
site: rustyjaw.com — flickr: rustyjaw — book: interior wilderness | |
Posted by Air 33
This is a great idea. There should be a specific thread about this (not the accident specifically) that all new people should be forced to read. Everyone throws about abstract concepts like 'luck', 'common sense' and whatnot and I think certain things should be outlined. |
Well, what exactly could be said other than "be careful?" There are far too many variables when out exploring and I don't think there's any laundry list of tips and tricks that's going to help save peoples lives. This isn't rock climbing or something. I don't think any of us with a bit more experience are sitting on too many pearls of wisdom that could be passed down to new people, do you?
I guess if asked, I'd tell people the following things:
- Don't do anything you're uncomfortable with
- Avoid things that seem unstable
- Don't run around
- Stay sober
- Don't go anywhere alone, and if you have to, bring a cellphone
But are these things that really need to be explained? Maybe that's the case for a few out there, but I like to give new people some credit.
Or we could go all Blackhawk on people and point out every.single.fucking.thing.that.could.go.wrong, but I think new people are generally nervous enough when exploring. We don't need to strike more fear into their virgin urbex hearts.
Of course, if we're talking about specific locations (or specialized activities, like draining) then it's an entirely different story. I could tell people exactly what they should watch out for or how to get around certain things based on what I'm familiar with.
In terms of general exploring safety though, I think safety will always have to be a bit more abstract because the types of hazards change so much from location to location.
Edit: And besides, given that a recent Toronto meet involved a group of 15+ being led through Hearn, I have to question just how much collective wisdom there is around here to begin with.
[last edit 6/19/2008 2:16 AM by micro - edited 1 times]
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Posted by micro
Or we could go all Blackhawk on people and point out every.single.fucking.thing.that.could.go.wrong, but I think new people are generally nervous enough when exploring. We don't need to strike more fear into their virgin urbex hearts.
Of course, if we're talking about specific locations (or specialized activities, like draining) then it's an entirely different story. I could tell people exactly what they should watch out for or how to get around certain things based on what I'm familiar with.
In terms of general exploring safety though, I think safety will always have to be a bit more abstract because the types of hazards change so much from location to location.
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How are the dangers of draining different then say and unstable building? I know your gonna split hairs over that because a building won't flood, but having explored with careless people in the past, telling some people to be careful just doesn't work. Infact telling some people not to do senseless shit like walking across warped roofs is pointless if they haven't grasped the first point.
Suggestions?
-Don't walk across floors without taking of notice of what your stepping on. Take a look around and try to walk over supports.
-Don't explore at night, even if you have a light in a building like the malt.
-Don't ever explore by yourself regardless of location.
-Explore with people who respect your limits, who don't try to force you do things your not comfortable with.
-Always let someone know where you went.
-Carry a phone.
-These places should be treated respectfully, and in the manner that they are unsafe, rather then safe.
-Don't go when intoxicated.
ADDED: Talk to explorers in your area and especially elsewhere about risks they might have. You can actually do this without fishing for access points! Talking to locals is best, don't assume that your a know-it-all.
ADDED: If you find no one is receptive to you around here, set up a blog or a flickr/photobucket account and put some photos, that is free. Take some photos with your cell phone or a disposable camera, don't start making excuses that what you might put up isn't good quality. I've been helpful with people here who have contacted me when I saw what they were doing. Those who have PM'd me asking questions about access who have 3 posts and no website link were ignored. Ironically, most of the PM's I have received were about Hearn. Most of the time people just want to know if you really explore, and aren't a lurker looking to do something else.
ADDED: If you find someone isn't being respectful of places, or themselves, talk about it with other people. With all the ethics nazi threads around here I'm amazed I don't see more posts around safety. Since we are all doing the same type of activity here, we should be concerned with how others conduct themselves.
Like I said some people just can't get their heads around this, but you can't expect new people who have never done this before to know everything which we might overlook.
A while ago, someone from the CC was booted because he took someone else to a location and the person fell a good distance. This person was lucky they didn't get killed. The guy who took him first denied knowledge of what happened, but later admitted what happened after being confronted by others. I know from talking to people here from all over, who to avoid.
So what I'm also adding to this is, be careful in all that you do -- but make sure your 'buddy' is too and won't be an asshole who will bail on you when something happens. Everyone is too busy here arguing about ethics, definitions, and engaging in pissing contests-- now do you honestly think its bad to emphasize caution if were gonna take the time to talk about every other thing here ? I certainly don't think so, considering this thread has had 6000 views in the past 24 hours
[last edit 6/19/2008 3:17 PM by Air - edited 4 times]
"The extraordinary beauty of things that fail." - Heinrich von Kleist | |
Posted by micro
Edit: And besides, given that a recent Toronto meet involved a group of 15+ being led through Hearn, I have to question just how much collective wisdom there is around here to begin with.
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Axle was there.
He's fully trained in first aid and carried a first aid kit.
Everybody was safe.
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Posted by Air 33
-Don't walk across floors without taking of notice of what your stepping on. Take a look around and try to walk over supports.
-Don't explore at night, even if you have a light in a building like the malt.
-Don't ever explore by yourself regardless of location.
-Explore with people who respect your limits, who don't try to force you do things your not comfortable with.
-Always let someone know where you went.
-Carry a phone.
-These places should be treated respectfully, and in the manner that they are unsafe, rather then safe.
-Don't go when intoxicated.
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Agreed, but no matter what, accidents happen, and no matter how safe one is, there is always that chance for disaster.
Thankfully I have never come close to disaster. But there is always that chance.
MH Inc. Photography Canada
http://www.mhinccanada.com
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Posted by KONG
Axle was there.
He's fully trained in first aid and carried a first aid kit.
Everybody was safe.
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Smartass.
Disgruntled. | |
Ninj's book outlines many good safety points. Things like checking doors before walking through them (so you don't lock yourself in rooms). On very shady staircases he points out the safest way is to crawl up them, spreading out your weight.
Its a really good read, I recommend everyone pick up access all areas.
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Posted by micro
Edit: And besides, given that a recent Toronto meet involved a group of 15+ being led through Hearn, I have to question just how much collective wisdom there is around here to begin with.
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Well that is why I don't like events. After I heard what happened I thought it was stupid. I'm also sure that OPG would not be too happy that security saw them all and failed to confront them. What if someone got hurt? Did they have a conversation about this before they started the meet? I'd rather explore with a smaller group and know who I'm going with. That reduces the chance that someone would get hurt. 5 people in my opinion is too much for a place like hearn. Brickworks....that's another issue 
I've also heard people's concerns from the opposite end of the table, they do view explorers as know-it-alls who are a liability. While sneaking around and getting past barriers is part of the rush, I have to think that locations that were a bit more difficult to get into kept away less experienced people, and there were no accidents. Think Toronto Power Company, and places out-of-the-way such as Camp Burwash.
Also reading access all areas is a good read, and would recommend it to seasoned and n00b explorers.
"The extraordinary beauty of things that fail." - Heinrich von Kleist | |
Posted by Air 33
I've also heard people's concerns from the opposite end of the table, they do view explorers as know-it-alls who are a liability. While sneaking around and getting past barriers is part of the rush, I have to think that locations that were a bit more difficult to get into kept away less experienced people, and there were no accidents. Think Toronto Power Company, and places out-of-the-way such as Camp Burwash.
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This is why I'm hoping this case will go to inquest. The site was poorly managed and secured and the interior demolition was allowed to drag out for a ridiculously long time. The property management would have known that groups of people were entering and "exploring" the structure on a weekly basis and did nothing new to discourage or prevent this. Irrespective of whether the recent upper storey demolitions were being carried out and signed properly, their approach to the property as a whole was lax, and is something to be commented upon and looked into.
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Why are you guys shitting on the meets? You don't even go to them. Yes we've taken large groups of people to Hearn (usually once or twice a year), has anyone been injured? Nope.
How it's done: break a large group into smaller groups of about 5 people. Walk inside a few minutes apart. You rarely even see the other groups as you explore the place its that big. Obviously seasoned explorers lead the way. God if memory serves we did an 8 man Lower Bay run before, if we wanna talk about being unsafe. Now that is unsafe.
The only time I've been in situations where one of my exploring comrades has almost died (myself included) was on two man missions, once in a construction site and once in an old silo where a catwalk wasn't being supported correctly (most likely due to demolition). On personal experience I would much rather be in a larger group than be alone with an injured friend.
It's great to say that we'll all change our ways and be more safe over this. I stepped on nails and vowed to wear steel toes...... 3 years ago. I still don't. I ripped up my hand when I slipped and landed on exposed nails and vowed to bring a med kit with me. It's still on my goddamn shelf. I have my doubts this will change anything, it's nice to think it will. But it sounds more like you guys shouting from a high horse at all them inebriated, solo, night explorers who don't give a rats ass.
And when you came in chat and me and Jono were talking UE. We weren't talking about the meet, no one plans those in advance. Heaven forbid we actually explore anything on a regular basis. That would be totally out of character.
Here's a lockpick. It might be handy if you, the master of unlocking, take it with you. | |
Posted by Boffo
Why are you guys shitting on the meets? You don't even go to them. Yes we've taken large groups of people to Hearn (usually once or twice a year), has anyone been injured? Nope.
How it's done: break a large group into smaller groups of about 5 people. Walk inside a few minutes apart. You rarely even see the other groups as you explore the place its that big. Obviously seasoned explorers lead the way. God if memory serves we did an 8 man Lower Bay run before, if we wanna talk about being unsafe. Now that is unsafe.
I have my doubts this will change anything, it's nice to think it will. But it sounds more like you guys shouting from a high horse at all them inebriated, solo, night explorers who don't give a rats ass.
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I don't really have anything against the meets. The social part of it is good and if you guys split up its really a none issue. But like 15+/- people wandering around when leaving hearn? That is dumb. But ask yourself, as an organizer what would you do if this guy was with you and you had an accident? Perhaps I'm showing my old age here, but I have been responsible for people before. You can say that everyone has their own actions but when a group goes you are one, and if something happens guess what...your on the hook.The police have asked for people to contact them if they know more about the accident, which leads me to believe they suspect more people were there.
What I am saying is I don't like large groups of people when I go somewhere, period. A few weeks ago 4 of us went to St.Alma. We were minding our own business when a bunch of imbecile tweens came in yelling that they were gonna set fires (about 8 of them) throwing shit running around and yelling at people from the window. I tired with someone else to stop them but they just went to the roof and kept doing stupid shit. We left.
I've said what I had to, I can't stop people from acting like horses assess when they go somewhere. Most people aren't a problem tho, and I'd hope those people who enjoy spaces as I do have a common level of decency to maintain themselves a certain way so they can stay safe, and so others can continue to enjoy the place because it won't be shut down, etc. I'd hope that everyone who read this thread went away thinking about something. The problem is most people don't make changes because they never think that something like this can/will happen to them -- and that is fatalistic and stupid.
[last edit 6/19/2008 4:53 PM by Air - edited 3 times]
"The extraordinary beauty of things that fail." - Heinrich von Kleist | |
Well, I have no problem with a group of 15 people (or larger), but since Toronto meets tend to bring out a lot of new people, I'm not sure a place like Hearn is the wisest place to go- especially now that it seems to be a far more dangerous place than it ever was. That's just the way I'm looking at it because I know how easy it is for things to get out of hand when large numbers of people are involve. But you're right.. I wasn't there. Maybe things were far more controlled and manageable than I'm imagining them to be.
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Posted by Boffo
Heaven forbid we actually explore anything on a regular basis. That would be totally out of character.
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You're right, I thought that you just drew comics, and that Jono just put weird filters on photos in Photoshop to make it look like he was exploring amazing places : P
I'm not hating specifically on meets here, well, not mostly. I'm hating on the general atmosphere that came to be attached to Hearn, that it was a place that anyone (people on UER, flickrites, whoever) could just go and "explore" on a weekend afternoon. This was probably a bad thing. And looking back, it was probably a good thing that there was a security incident that precipitated the securing of the Malting Plant site when there was. We might have seen someone have a serious accident in there otherwise.
I'm not convinced that people should be encouraged to be "urban explorers" in our sense. Many many more people get to experience the same things we do exploring their cities and landscapes without needing to fuck around in abandoned and disused buildings like Hearn. It may be hard to understand this, because "UE" people tend to be colour blind to all the other wonders in their landscapes, but there's no real reason to specifically encourage people to go into a place like Hearn.
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***Identification***
Ryan Nyenhuis was his name. Brought to my attention by a colleague - he was her aunt's friends grandson.
From today's Star:
http://www.toronto...sort=none&pages=10
J->
[last edit 6/19/2008 6:00 PM by Jono - edited 1 times]
www.sacramentalperception.com : www.jonathancastellino.com | |
Must read part from link:
The family will receive friends at the Nicholls Funeral Home, 330 Midland Ave., Midland on Saturday, June 21st from 12 noon until time of memorial service in the chapel at 1 p.m. If desired, memorial donations to the Heart and Stroke Foundation or the Canadian Cancer Society would be appreciated. The family invites friends to sign the ''Book of Condolence'' at www.nicholls-funeral.ca
18-odd Years Of UER-ing! | |
Thanks for the update
"Great architecture has only two natural enemies: water and stupid men." - Richard Nickel | |
Maybe we can adjust the thread title again, since he wasn't from Northern Ontario, he was from Midland but living in Toronto.
Nyenhuis had done some video work while at the Brickworks last year with friends, one of whom had made at least one previous trip to the Hearn grounds this month.
[last edit 6/19/2008 6:32 PM by Mutt - edited 1 times]
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Thank-you for the 4.1.1. Jono.
Some members may want to leave a message on ebituaries . . .
http://ebituaries....spx?DaId=493845788
nyne_ix
Is this Ryan . . . (?)
Nynexx
http://www.uer.ca/...d=1&posterid=24887
Edit : additional information posted.
[last edit 6/19/2008 7:10 PM by CopySix - edited 1 times]
'ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US'
URBEX - http://www.UrbExBarrie.Blogspot.com
Magic: The GAthering - http://www.MTG-Realm.Blogspot.com | |
Here he is
http://www.faceboo...e.php?id=505189243
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Ethics
