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Seen a lot of long-dilapidated buildings that somehow still had power. Or maybe still had running water, after years of being abandoned. One place I knew had a broken water main in the basement gushing water for over a year.
How is this possible, when a residence would have the utilities shut off after 3 months of non-payment? I assume bills are being sent somewhere, I'm just puzzled how some derelict buildings keep their utilities on.
“You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons.” |
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Leaving the water on truly does baffle me.
The power however does have some benefits to an owner. Power means the heat can stay on and help prevent deterioration. Also lights act as a deterrent to most vandals. Still a little crazy to think some places have had lights on for decades with nobody there.
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I wouldn't be surprised if owners do it for legal or insurance reasons in many jurisdictions. I would bet utility status is part of what is considered when cities designate buildings as blighted/abandoned. I'm sure keeping power on affects insurance rates too. An actuary can probably tell you exactly how much more likely you are to suffer break ins and vandalism with power (...and lights, and security) offline, and how much more likely damage due to structural or plumbing failures is without climate control.
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Posted by Adv.Pack
Leaving the water on truly does baffle me.
The power however does have some benefits to an owner. Power means the heat can stay on and help prevent deterioration. Also lights act as a deterrent to most vandals. Still a little crazy to think some places have had lights on for decades with nobody there.
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Yes, well...
Squatters sometimes turn on the water. It's no big trick if you know how.
The water readers move fast, they rarely will doubt check a building not on their active list.
I was doing electric meter data collection prior the the install of the latest generation of new wireless data sending meters.
Sometimes meters get "forgotten" by the readers and sit on abandoned buildings. Sometimes the owner or squatters jump the meter or blank plated housings or even reconnect the lines.
I found at least 2 jumped meters on my unannounced audits and many more forgotten ones that were drawing no current but were live.
Any unsealed meter boxes I would open and inspect for bridging. Running meters were sometimes found on buildings that were marked as service off.
I also found a meter box with a broken seal that was running slow but the house had A/Cs running full blast; a jumped box on one of the 120 legs. Since I didn't come at the normal monthly intervals as the meter reader, so the owner hadn't removed the jumper. Oops.
Seals can and do fall into the hands of the wrong people. Many times owners will try to cut the seal so it can't be seen; we pull hard on them to find this.
I really hated finding tampering. Many times there be more than one house in a neighborhood that signs of tampering. People would share their trick... that got to be an expensive if caught. The electric company would go back in the usage history of the user and see where the drop off started. A big bill and a tamper lock followed.
When I was changing out meters hated seeing the tamper locked boxes because you knew those people were trouble. Many times the tamper locks were hard to remove if old too. Some of those had been tampered with... jeeesze, dopes.
Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
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I assume that sometimes it's as simple a case as the power company can't be bothered to send someone out to shut off power. It's not like there's a full-on server farm in the basement of the joint that's devouring power. The most it may see is a vagrant or two coming by to charge their cellphone.
It is definitely an interesting thought though, I know of a few that keep utilities running as part of their insurance. It also serves fairly well against vandals. And surprisingly it works.
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Posted by eidolon
I wouldn't be surprised if owners do it for legal or insurance reasons in many jurisdictions. I would bet utility status is part of what is considered when cities designate buildings as blighted/abandoned. I'm sure keeping power on affects insurance rates too. An actuary can probably tell you exactly how much more likely you are to suffer break ins and vandalism with power (...and lights, and security) offline, and how much more likely damage due to structural or plumbing failures is without climate control.
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Yeh that is why we find a lot of places with lights still on keeps the vandals and thieves out
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They aren't abandoned. They're meth labs/grow houses....
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Posted by Peptic Ulcer
They aren't abandoned. They're meth labs/grow houses....
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They usually have lots of people that aren't afraid to walk straight up to you... I saw some those too.
Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
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the electricity has been on inside this place for the past 15 years
http://www.uer.ca/...ow.asp?locid=31084
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Government is vastly inefficient, because it has no motivation not to be. Westborough State Hospital in MA had a huge steam leak for at least 8 years that eventually collapsed that entire section of the building. THEN they cut the steam. Great job, guys.
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I assume one of the big reasons to keep power on is to keep the alarms up and running.
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Checked out a spot a few days ago. A warehouse-y/office type building, I've never seen anyone parked there in my life, was dusty as all heck inside, the company named on the building has been dissolved for years; seemed pretty thoroughly abandoned overall... I did find it a bit odd that there was a somewhat new-looking outdoor light hooked up on the back side of the building, but shrugged it off.
When I drove past today there was smoke coming from the chimney and cars out front. Apparently the car dealership across the road has recently started using the place for... something. Oops?
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Went to an abandoned warehouse - long abandoned, the wood floor was all warped, everything dusty etc. In the office area was nothing left but an old landline phone. I picked up the receiver and heard dial tone! How did it still have service? lol
“You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons.” |
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Since you guys seem to be pretty knowledgeable on the subject, I want to ask about the inverse of the scenarios you've been discussing: How useful is a power meter as an indicator of whether a building is abandoned? On a couple of occasions now, I've come across buildings with modern digital power meters, with readouts showing all zeroes. A few weeks ago, I also saw a digital meter on a very clearly abandoned and heavily decayed house which read - to my recollection - 001001. What exactly do these codes indicate, and is knowing these codes a useful tool when scouting?
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Posted by Baldran
Since you guys seem to be pretty knowledgeable on the subject, I want to ask about the inverse of the scenarios you've been discussing: How useful is a power meter as an indicator of whether a building is abandoned? On a couple of occasions now, I've come across buildings with modern digital power meters, with readouts showing all zeroes. A few weeks ago, I also saw a digital meter on a very clearly abandoned and heavily decayed house which read - to my recollection - 001001. What exactly do these codes indicate, and is knowing these codes a useful tool when scouting?
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No idea what the code means. Out of service boxes got a pie plate and no meter.
A lineman for that company could tell you.
[last edit 2/17/2017 3:55 AM by blackhawk - edited 1 times]
Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
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Larger services (industrial, large commercial, etc) will often have a remote meter - where pulling the meter doesn't actually disconnect the power. Yanking the meter just stops the actual metering.
Disconnecting the power to a lot of those types of locations requires rolling a truck and disconnecting power at the transformer - and depending on the building, the transformer might be on a pole, on a concrete pad, or underground - and a lot of larger installs will own the transformers. Those buildings are easily capable of pulling enough power that yanking a meter to disconnect power would result in an arc flash (so at the least, equipment damage.. an arc flash can easily kill and/or maim anyone close to the source), so disconnecting power requires ensuring there's no load. Also requires heavy PPE. If a space like that is on the market, it's cheaper to just leave the power connected. If it's a location that's going to be demolished, then yeah, cut the power once you know it's going to be demo'd.
And of course, your insurance (as a property owner) will generally be lower so long as you keep security lighting, burglar alarms, and fire alarms working.
[last edit 2/25/2017 7:28 AM by The Bean - edited 1 times]
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Posted by The Bean
Larger services (industrial, large commercial, etc) will often have a remote meter - where pulling the meter doesn't actually disconnect the power. Yanking the meter just stops the actual metering.
Disconnecting the power to a lot of those types of locations requires rolling a truck and disconnecting power at the transformer - and depending on the building, the transformer might be on a pole, on a concrete pad, or underground - and a lot of larger installs will own the transformers. Those buildings are easily capable of pulling enough power that yanking a meter to disconnect power would result in an arc flash (so at the least, equipment damage.. an arc flash can easily kill and/or maim anyone close to the source), so disconnecting power requires ensuring there's no load. Also requires heavy PPE. If a space like that is on the market, it's cheaper to just leave the power connected. If it's a location that's going to be demolished, then yeah, cut the power once you know it's going to be demo'd.
And of course, your insurance (as a property owner) will generally be lower so long as you keep security lighting, burglar alarms, and fire alarms working.
http://i.imgur.com/MhnweTol.jpg
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Yeah where they are using potential transformers, the meter is isolated from the main power which can be thousands of volts and amps.
Most electric companies are right on top of those customers to shut the power once they stop paying.
They will simply pull the pole or substation fuses on all 3 phases.
That is one way to verify power is off however many times in a large complexes there are multiple feeds going in.
Years back I had a lot of fun shooting a small substation with a 75KV hook up. The Haverford State Mental Hospital.
It look like it was still active, but dead as a nail. Climbed all over that bitch. Before I did though I made certain there was no back feed coming in from elsewhere in the complex to that substation. Even though the 75KV lines were physically disconnected (the fuses were swung open), trust -nothing- unless you know how to and can verify there is no power.
A fuck up will be life altering...
[last edit 2/25/2017 1:52 PM by blackhawk - edited 1 times]
Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
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Posted by blackhawk
Before I did though I made certain there was no back feed coming in from elsewhere in the complex to that substation. Even though the 75KV lines were physically disconnected (the fuses were swung open), trust -nothing- unless you know how to and can verify there is no power.
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What is "back feed," and how exactly do you determine there is no power?
"Sorry, I didn't know I'm not supposed to be here," he said, knowing full well he wasn't supposed to be there.
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Posted by Aran
What is "back feed," and how exactly do you determine there is no power?
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Power coming in on the secondary circuit(s) from another feed that is live and connected to the "dead" circuit(s).
Transformers work in both directions...
Verify by making sure there's no power on the substation secondary circuits, preferably all breakers and fuses are open so there can be none.
Note:
Power/phase correction caps are typically found in circuits especially ones that have heavy inductive loads. They can be before the meter or after.
Sometimes found in substations, and these can be ultra high voltage ones.
Know what they look like... read the tags.
Although many medium 600-1200 VAC voltage capacitors have internal bleeder resistors, don't bet on it. It's also possible for them to be open (burnt out). Most ultra HV (75+KVAC) caps have none.
The can retain a charge for a long time and can also accumulate a charge from static electricity.
They are capable of holding large charges and can discharge them rapidly...
If you find them verify they are discharged... on big ones discharging them can be dangerous.
Yes, well... even a 600V .01 uf cap can pack a punch let alone a bank of them.
They can be charged far beyond their rated voltage too by a factor of 20+ times for oil filled. This is unlikely, but not impossible.
[last edit 2/25/2017 3:55 PM by blackhawk - edited 1 times]
Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
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Ethics
