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blackhawk This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
Location: Mission Control Total Likes: 3996 likes
UER newbie
| | | | Re: Tearing down the Nike Missile Base < Reply # 25 on 9/27/2016 11:24 PM > | Reply with Quote
| | | Posted by /-/ooligan
We definitely disagree on that.
/-/ooligan
| Which ones are identical? I've been to over half dozen and never saw an identical one. It's also stated on Ed Thalen's Nike website. I didn't conjure the idea myself but have observed it. Sites have share common features though such as separation of the control center from launching area. Even that distance varies. One in Chichester PA and the one in Edgemont PA were said to have a connecting tunnel between the two. The ChiChester one is partially verified by someone who had access to the school which it became. In that case the missile mags are much closer to the command center than most. Perhaps at some point they abandoned that practice of separate plans. Most of the Atlas F sites I saw were pretty much cookie cutter though.
| Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in. |
| /-/ooligan
Location: Las Vegas area Gender: Male Total Likes: 278 likes
When in danger, when in doubt, RUN IN CIRCLES, SCREAM AND SHOUT!
| | | Re: Tearing down the Nike Missile Base < Reply # 26 on 10/4/2016 5:14 AM > | Reply with Quote
| | | I'm not claiming any are "identical," I'm just stating that the variances aren't due to security reasons. Do you truly think that any legitimate threat would be "confused" by differing layouts? I think that's silly. The IFC, Admin & Battery land parcels were obtained by the USG in a slightly secretive way because if the land-owners knew that the Army wanted the exact parcels for an important military project, they would have held out for more $$ (they tried not to use condemnation, but did occasionally threaten it). So the parcels of land varied in size, and that's why sometimes the Admin was collocated with the IFC or Battery, and the parcels varied in size. The IFC had a minimum separation distance from its launch battery because a RADAR at the IFC needed to be able to focus on each missile when in it's firing position, and track it at tremendous speed after launch. Too close, and the RADAR wouldn't be able to physically move up fast enough to keep tracking the missile after a launch. You do realize that the underground missile storage batteries were to save space, not to 'harden' the Batteries... Once the sites were built to the required specs, sometimes the sites used non-appropriated funds for other construction projects for quality of life/morale purposes. For example, some sites had a small chapel.
Are YOU somehow confused when you visit a site, just because the HIPAR tower remains aren't in the same area as another site you've seen, or because one IFC had an interconnecting corridor for a couple of the IFC vans, and another did not? Saboteurs really just had to take-out a couple of the RADAR antennas at an IFC. Those antennas are big & obvious, no matter where on the IFC grounds they were located, and because the antennas were pretty big, the IFC was on high ground with clear line of site, saboteurs need not have actually penetrated the fenced compound to neutralize the antennas. If they decided to get closer, the control vans at the IFC were pretty damn obvious too, regardless of where they were located inside the compound, and they weren't hardened. Yes, missile magazines had the semi-hardened (in-case one of the Nikes blew-up...) "Panel Rooms" with emergency launch capability, but the missiles still needed one of the RADAR antennas locked-onto it to provide guidance & control data, hence the antennas being the obvious target in *your* ground attack scenario. Finally, I'll point out that the sites really didn't have much in terms of security personnel to repel any sort of attack. The biggest security was at the Hercules batteries, as a requirement due to "special" warheads.
/-/oolie
| There are no stupid questions, just stupid people. |
| /-/ooligan
Location: Las Vegas area Gender: Male Total Likes: 278 likes
When in danger, when in doubt, RUN IN CIRCLES, SCREAM AND SHOUT!
| | | Re: Tearing down the Nike Missile Base < Reply # 32 on 10/15/2016 3:26 AM > | Reply with Quote
| | | Posted by blackhawk
On you. Ed Thalen wrote the book on Nike sites. YOU can email him. Who knows maybe I'm wrong... but I have a nasty habit of being right.
| Unlike you, I actually know Ed Thelen. We first started corresponding in the early days of his web page, then met-up several times when I lived about 20 miles from him. If you did know him, you'd know he's the first to admit that he knew a lot about the Nike-Ajax Fire Control systems, helped fix-up the control trailers at the SF-88 museum, and is extremely intelligent (& eccentric), but is NOT an 'expert' on the Nike program. Instead, he's the 'father' & webmaster of a great web resource om the Nike program, which shares the collective knowledge of Nike veterans and others (including me). http://www.ed-thelen.org So while Ed didn't "write the book," I double-checked with a close friend that *did* write "the Book" on the Nike program: http://www.holeint.../ringsofsteel.html (Gee, I'm also listed in the credits of that book for some reason...) as well as a few other people, because unlike you, if someone challenges my information, I'm not too lazy to double-check my facts using multiple sources before I debate & defend my information! Between Mark, myself & a couple others, there's maybe just 5 Nike installations in the country that we haven't visited & documented in-person, let alone via Google Earth. They all pretty much agreed you're clueless, and spreading misinformation. I tried to help educate you, giving you examples & rationale, but the best response to that you muster is to whine to me to call Ed Thelen & ask him? What's next, calling your mommy? You & I went thru this same BS the last time you posted your bogus claim here. There's enough misinformation out there about Nike sites & programs without your assistance. The nasty habit you mention is more along the lines of being intellectually lazy. /-/ooligan P.S. To everyone else, sorry about the vitriol here. I don't waste time arguing with drunks, but as a student of the Cold War & Nike stuff, I come across crap spread by dummies all the time and it gets frustrating, especially when they try to argue but are unable to support their claim.
| There are no stupid questions, just stupid people. |
| blackhawk This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
Location: Mission Control Total Likes: 3996 likes
UER newbie
| | | | Re: Tearing down the Nike Missile Base < Reply # 33 on 10/15/2016 5:36 AM > | Reply with Quote
| | | Posted by /-/ooligan
Unlike you, I actually know Ed Thelen. We first started corresponding in the early days of his web page, then met-up several times when I lived about 20 miles from him. If you did know him, you'd know he's the first to admit that he knew a lot about the Nike-Ajax Fire Control systems, helped fix-up the control trailers at the SF-88 museum, and is extremely intelligent (& eccentric), but is NOT an 'expert' on the Nike program. Instead, he's the 'father' & webmaster of a great web resource om the Nike program, which shares the collective knowledge of Nike veterans and others (including me). http://www.ed-thelen.org So while Ed didn't "write the book," I double-checked with a close friend that *did* write "the Book" on the Nike program: http://www.holeint.../ringsofsteel.html (Gee, I'm also listed in the credits of that book for some reason...) as well as a few other people, because unlike you, if someone challenges my information, I'm not too lazy to double-check my facts using multiple sources before I debate & defend my information! Between Mark, myself & a couple others, there's maybe just 5 Nike installations in the country that we haven't visited & documented in-person, let alone via Google Earth. They all pretty much agreed you're clueless, and spreading misinformation. I tried to help educate you, giving you examples & rationale, but the best response to that you muster is to whine to me to call Ed Thelen & ask him? What's next, calling your mommy? You & I went thru this same BS the last time you posted your bogus claim here. There's enough misinformation out there about Nike sites & programs without your assistance.
The nasty habit you mention is more along the lines of being intellectually lazy.
/-/ooligan P.S. To everyone else, sorry about the vitriol here. I don't waste time arguing with drunks, but as a student of the Cold War & Nike stuff, I come across crap spread by dummies all the time and it gets frustrating, especially when they try to argue but are unable to support their claim.
| You may be correct. However your explanations still don't explain the differences. Unfortunately I may be a victim of misinformation that I heard and read over the years. Some from people who claimed to be stationed on Nike bases. There was no internet when I explored my first Nike base/mags in 1984... As for a meet up, _no_ Oops, I forgot you can send PMs *sarcasm*
| Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in. |
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