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UER Forum > UE Main > What to do if caught by the cops/security (Viewed 15258 times)
Freelancer48 


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What to do if caught by the cops/security
< on 7/10/2015 5:22 PM >
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Hello

I personally have been stopped 2 times one time when I was in the building and another while doing some recon on another building. I went with I lost my puppy on the one when I was in the building and the cop helped me, but on the recon one he keeper asking me who I was stalking and wanted to see my camera.

Anyone else have weird encounters, or know how to get out of them?




neiloffthegrid 


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Re: What to do if caught by the cops/security
< Reply # 1 on 7/10/2015 5:38 PM >
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I alwasys take my old school Vivitar 36mm with me, pre-digital. I go w/o film and take exterior shots first. I've been stopped by a day care center security guard while walking towards a POE and followed into a building by a cop. I was inside for 1 minute and he asked me to come out. I said I was taking pic of the building as a hobbie and develop them at home. I told him that I didn't know the site had a POE and decided to take a look side.

Once I am inside I used my iPhone.




Sands 


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Re: What to do if caught by the cops/security
< Reply # 2 on 7/10/2015 5:53 PM >
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Just be honest and polite. I've had a few encounters with police/security and I've gotten off with a warning every time. They all ask the questions like "You know you're not suppose to be here, right? and "What are you doing here?" I always tell them I know I'm not allowed to be there and that I'm just taking pictures. They are more worried about people vandalizing, scrapping or lighting the place on fire than someone who is taking pictures. They'll just tell you not to come back and be careful.

I do have a DSLR so that might have swayed them to believe the photographer aspect more than if I had a cell phone or point and shoot though.




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mookster 


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Re: What to do if caught by the cops/security
< Reply # 3 on 7/10/2015 6:10 PM >
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If you are just taking photos, haven't broken in and don't have anything on you that you shouldn't, you'll be fine in the vast majority of circumstances. Be courteous and polite, explain what you were doing and offer to show them your equipment if it's packed away. There is no point behaving like a dick or acting up towards security or police and you'll only end up in more trouble if you do. They are only doing their jobs after all so treat them like a human being and you'll be more than likely to get away with nothing more than a bit of a telling off.

The most important thing to do is leave when they ask you to. If you return immediately and get caught again it's likely they won't be too friendly. Here in the UK trespass itself isn't a criminal offence but if you are caught and asked to leave, then either don't leave or return immediately it escalates to aggravated trespass which is a criminal offence.



[last edit 7/10/2015 6:11 PM by mookster - edited 2 times]

GLP. 


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Re: What to do if caught by the cops/security
< Reply # 4 on 7/10/2015 6:28 PM >
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I was out scouting some things last weekend, my friends and I were checking out a promising grate in the ground. Just as I shined my light down the hole some maintenance staff of the property I was on rolled up on their golf cart very suspicious of our behavior. When asked the obvious "what the hell are you doing" I responded by telling them that I was very drunk the night before and was taking a piss in the ally that we were in and that I had lost my car keys thinking I may have kicked them down the grate in my "drunken stupor". Surprisingly they believed us and went so far as to help me try and find my keys for a good 20mins at least lol.

All in all it really comes down to how well you can explain yourself and make it believable, however try not to bull shit law enforcement to this level it usually doesn't go as far with them.




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Intrinsic 


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Re: What to do if caught by the cops/security
< Reply # 5 on 7/10/2015 6:47 PM >
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Do you know why police 'blip' their siren for a moment before stopping to interact with people on the street? It's to see what the person is going to do. They could just as easily pull up and roll down the window to get your attention. A guilty minded person is going to run. An innocent person will stop and talk.

So when law enforcement catches you, if you walk toward them instead of running away, it's in your favour. This isn't to say that you won't get ticketed but many explorers can attest to being let go with a warning. You take ownership of the situation and you are respectful. That plays in your favour compared to the paperwork involved going the other route by taking the bitch route. When you're in your 40's or older, running just doesn't seem to be an option.

If they have to chase you, it's going to escalate things to another level.



[last edit 7/10/2015 6:49 PM by Intrinsic - edited 1 times]

GLP. 


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Re: What to do if caught by the cops/security
< Reply # 6 on 7/10/2015 6:51 PM >
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Posted by Intrinsic
Do you know why police 'blip' their siren for a moment before stopping to interact with people on the street? It's to see what the person is going to do. They could just as easily pull up and roll down the window to get your attention. A guilty minded person is going to run. An innocent person will stop and talk.

So when law enforcement catches you, if you walk toward them instead of running away, it's in your favour. This isn't to say that you won't get ticketed but many explorers can attest to being let go with a warning. You take ownership of the situation and you are respectful. That plays in your favour compared to the paperwork involved going the other route by taking the bitch route. When you're in your 40's or older, running just doesn't seem to be an option.

If they have to chase you, it's going to escalate things to another level.


+1




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Freelancer48 


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Re: What to do if caught by the cops/security
< Reply # 7 on 7/10/2015 7:09 PM >
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Thank you to everyone for giving me these tips and I hope it helps other people who come along this forum.




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Re: What to do if caught by the cops/security
< Reply # 8 on 7/10/2015 9:09 PM >
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Bvmblebee 


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Re: What to do if caught by the cops/security
< Reply # 9 on 7/10/2015 10:45 PM >
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mookster 


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Re: What to do if caught by the cops/security
< Reply # 10 on 7/11/2015 9:39 AM >
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Posted by Intrinsic

If they have to chase you, it's going to escalate things to another level.


Agreed.

If the actual real police spot you, don't ever run from them, you'll only make yourself look more suspicious and it'll end a lot worse for you down the line.

If it's on-site security, I make a quick judgement call. If they spot me from a long distance off, can I get back to my entry point into the site before they catch me? Usually the answer is no, so either I know I've been busted and walk towards them, or wait for them to get to me. About five years ago I was exploring a large site with a couple of groups who met up so there were about ten of us in total and security on a mountain bike spotted us right out in the open from about 100 metres away, we all scattered in different directions into the site before waiting it out and making a break for the fence and he only ended up catching one of us.

Nowadays I'm too unfit to run anywhere unless I really absolutely have to though, and even then I've only been caught a few times.




General Zod 


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Re: What to do if caught by the cops/security
< Reply # 11 on 7/11/2015 12:54 PM >
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I had a friend who panicked when they saw a security car roll up behind me before I saw them coming. This friend made a short run for it and hid behind a hill in the woods. If that friend had stayed put and didn't scream and run when they saw security, they would not have startled me, causing me to burst into a short gallop before stopping to turn towards the security car.

Needless to say, even though I was all decked out with camera gear, I still looked suspicious for jumping, and the security guard (who had a trainee(?) with him and a taser) had the excuse of finding a fire on site earlier that day/ week whatever, so he needed to call the police on me just in case.

The cop who showed up was a dickhead, arresting me without even saying anything, but later on went so far as chatting me up about how he thought kids going into these building taking pics of themselves in the morgue etc, were cool, and he even drove me to an ATM so I could withdraw bail money (50 bucks). (At this point I was thinking, "well what the fuck are you giving me a criminal record for then?) But shit happens. Thank god I didn't have a lighter on me.



[last edit 7/11/2015 7:55 PM by General Zod - edited 3 times]

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Astro 

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Re: What to do if caught by the cops/security
< Reply # 12 on 7/11/2015 3:46 PM >
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Posted by General Zod
I had a friend who panicked when they saw a security car roll up behind me before I saw them coming. This friend made a short run for it and hid behind a hill in the woods. If that friend had stayed put and didn't scream and run when they saw security, they would not have startled me, causing me to burst into a short gallop before stopping to turn towards the security car.

Needless to say, even though I was all decked out with camera gear, I still looked suspicious for jumping, and the security guard (who had a trainee(?) with him and a taser) had the excuse of finding a fire on site earlier that day/ week whatever, so he needed to call the police on me just in case.

The cop who showed up was a dickhead, arresting me without even saying anything, but later on went so far as chatting me up about how he thought kids going into these building taking pics of themselves in the morgue etc, were cool, and even he even drove me to an ATM so I could withdraw cash to bail myself out. (At this point I was thinking, "well what the fuck are you giving me a criminal record for then?) But shit happens. Thank god I didn't have a lighter on me.


If you have to wait for security to call the police...leave. Just leave. Don't sprint or anything, just walk out, security cannot legally detain you and keep you there while they call the police. That's your choice. So, just go.




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ZenCanadian 


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Re: What to do if caught by the cops/security
< Reply # 13 on 7/11/2015 5:47 PM >
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Posted by Astro


If you have to wait for security to call the police...leave. Just leave. Don't sprint or anything, just walk out, security cannot legally detain you and keep you there while they call the police. That's your choice. So, just go.


Don't know how things work down there but up here the security guard (or anyone) can place you under citizens arrest and then use whatever force is necessary to hold you until the police arrive.




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catdog23 


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Re: What to do if caught by the cops/security
< Reply # 14 on 7/11/2015 7:23 PM >
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Posted by Astro


If you have to wait for security to call the police...leave. Just leave. Don't sprint or anything, just walk out, security cannot legally detain you and keep you there while they call the police. That's your choice. So, just go.


In Canada they can detain you with Citizen's Arrest (which all people can do), but they must hand you over to police right away. [1]

Unfortunately in Kingston the Campus Five-O are a bit overzealous when it comes to doing this to college-aged kids. Even worse if you're a Queen's student they can put you through the university's kangaroo court (I got an $500 fine that way).

However if you're dealing with regular security in a place where there's not as much action it's usually a way better idea just to talk to them.



[1]
Trespass to Property Act, Section 9
http://www.ontario...statute/90t21#s9s1




General Zod 


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Re: What to do if caught by the cops/security
< Reply # 15 on 7/11/2015 7:50 PM >
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Posted by Astro


If you have to wait for security to call the police...leave. Just leave. Don't sprint or anything, just walk out, security cannot legally detain you and keep you there while they call the police. That's your choice. So, just go.


Sorry, but I'm not about to get tased (or did you miss that part).



[last edit 7/11/2015 7:52 PM by General Zod - edited 1 times]

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mookster 


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Re: What to do if caught by the cops/security
< Reply # 16 on 7/11/2015 9:36 PM >
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Luckily in the UK security cannot lay a finger on you, and neither can they stop you from leaving, as that would be assault and false imprisonment respectively. Provided you leave when asked to, or of your own choice when caught, they can't do anything. And they may threaten to call the police or even do so much as call them, but ultimately trespass isn't a criminal offence over here so the security guard could find themself in trouble for wasting police time, or get a bollocking for not knowing the law.

I've become quite handy with trespass laws in the UK over my years doing this, it's always a good idea to know what both you and they can and can't do legally - but never tell a police officer the law or how to do his job as that will only end badly.



[last edit 7/11/2015 9:37 PM by mookster - edited 2 times]

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Re: What to do if caught by the cops/security
< Reply # 17 on 7/12/2015 1:35 AM >
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I'm not 100% sure on this, but I believe in the US, or order to do a citizen's arrest, someone's immediate safety has to be in danger.

I do know that it's generally advised in the US to just politely walk away from security. I always thought this was the case in Canada as well, but I may be wrong.




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Re: What to do if caught by the cops/security
< Reply # 18 on 7/12/2015 2:29 AM >
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Posted by ZenCanadian


Don't know how things work down there but up here the security guard (or anyone) can place you under citizens arrest and then use whatever force is necessary to hold you until the police arrive.


In theory that's true, but in practice, I'm sure as heck not going to wait around. they better be stronger and tougher than I am because if they put one finger on me they're going to have a problem on their hands. I'd always politely approach the police and cooperate fully (and have done so once - got off without so much as a warning not to come back lol), but some low rent security guard isn't going to hold me anywhere to just wait for them to arrive.

In fact, I've simply walked away from protesting security guards / private citizens on more than one occasion and not one has ever tried to hold me there despite screaming and shouting all kinds of threats about how much trouble I'll be in for leaving. The vast majority of security companies do not allow their employees to physically detain people - there's just far too much liability for it to be worthwhile in all but the most extraneous circumstances. Most stores have the exact same policies for shop lifters too - even if you see them steal something you're not allowed to physically detain them.

Of course being 6' 1" 210lbs might help. Pushing back might not work so well if you're smaller or facing multiple over zealous mall ninjas. Probably best to Judge each situation individually and act according to what you feel you can get away with doing.

$0.02



[last edit 7/12/2015 2:40 AM by terapr0 - edited 2 times]

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Re: What to do if caught by the cops/security
< Reply # 19 on 7/13/2015 3:28 PM >
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Posted by terapr0
Most stores have the exact same policies for shop lifters too - even if you see them steal something you're not allowed to physically detain them.


+1, worked at a grocery store for 8 years, and this was always the policy - if somebody steals, you call a manager while they are in the store. If they leave, you can't chase them, or go after them, or try to detain them in any way.

... Not that I would have tried, being a small person and not at all threatening looking.

I had to once initial the policy saying that I wouldn't run after somebody stealing. My response, as if I'd ever. Is a banana worth it?



[last edit 7/13/2015 3:29 PM by Storytrail - edited 1 times]

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