Mods, if you seriously want the low down on why we're so upset about these particular buildings being posted (combined with the shitty attitude of OP having to go to unfortunate MSP) message me and I'll fill you in. I'm not going to explain it in public (it would violate UER's post terms).

I've made this thread FM-only. Any basic members who have already posted in this thread (including the OP) can still see and post in it though.

Jobobby, please don't take me doing this as any indication that you've done anything wrong. You didn't at all! I'm just doing this to help calm down some of the drama here.

I consider the matter closed.

I suppose, in hindsight, I shouldn't have even said anything, but I know that during my first foray onto this site (as a registered member) I was met with the precise same "I own this town" mentality from someone and was wholly unimpressed.

If you want to object to somebody's posting the public location of someplace, that's fine. I think most people get that there's a certain wisdom in not saying "HEY GUYS COME TO THIS PLACE AT THIS STREET AND INTERSECTION IN THIS CITY", lest it get destroyed/tagged/torn down/etc.

Can't we just all get along with one another? Jeez.

Posted by Dalmaticus Granted, the public bashing didn't help the situation any. At the risk of rehashing this old thing again.... Maybe there should be a section, a resource, for exactly this sort of thing. UER is a cool forum, but the idea that the entire world plays by the same set of rules/laws/guidelines is absurd. Perhaps a section explaining things about different areas would be a good thing. KC plays different from MSP, than STL, etc, in terms of culture, law, location type, and general public attitude. I know something sort of like this exists in the Ontario section, and I found it very helpful before heading up that way. Fucking Canadians and their red-dot signs!! =P

This sounds like a good idea. Maybe the best thing would be for someone to write an MSP FAQ and post it somewhere that new members can see or be directed to.

I'm all for pulling down risky information that exposes sites, and obviously nobody but MSP members can really say where the line should be drawn for their region, as long as it's done courteously. Because you obviously want the new members' compliance, and for all new members to get it faster.

I'm gonna bow out of this after this post, probably. I want everyone to know I totally understand where you are coming from as far as wanting those places protected. I do. My only concern is the way we have historically treated new comers to the site. There has been a lot of effort placed on trying to make this welcoming to the newcomers because otherwise, they never know.

As for the setting up information about the different areas, it sounds good on the surface but, I'm concerned about two things. One, UER will once again be different in every city in the country, and two, I'm not sure Av is going to be behind making different guidelines for different areas.

Though I do understand the thinking behind it, and it might can be done in a way that doesn't cause either of those two issues. Any thoughts?

Posted by Raticus ... One, UER will once again be different in every city in the country and two, I'm not sure Av is going to be behind making different guidelines for different areas. Though I do understand the thinking behind it, and it might can be done in a way that doesn't cause either of those two issues. Any thoughts?

UER is hardly used in our city/region because it does not suit our needs; because it tries to be an all-encompassing, doors open approach to exploring throughout the continent that does not serve the specific locals but serves itself and its formatting. It's like the giant corporation that doesn't understand feedback from their outlets or distribution centers on how the corporate policy doesn't always suit the needs of specific situations.


I can say for certain that the twin cities locals have had to primarily abandon UER (outside of yelling at and recruiting noobs), and we instead run our own forums that suits our needs significantly more. The one thing UER is GREAT for is meeting people outside of our city, and that's what we primarily use it for.

For being a global connecting resource, this site is fantastic. For being a regional or local resource, it is a fucking thorn in our foot, at best.

I don't think there's a ton of merit in segregating the site based on local regions.

UE is the same across the planet, is it not? What varies are the punishments for getting caught trespassing...


I think it's important that people recognize this. Furthermore, I think that some people such as the highly defined scholar on the previous page who thought it'd be clever to insult me who feel they are on a certain level of entitlement because Jesus H Christ who knows.


I joined this site to share experiences with fellow explorers and gain insight. If I wanted to dull my intelligence I'd go to 4chan.


I wouldn't tolerate crap from a fellow explorer in person so why would I on here?

Posted by Darendor I don't think there's a ton of merit in segregating the site based on local regions. UE is the same across the planet, is it not? What varies are the punishments for getting caught trespassing... I think it's important that people recognize this. Furthermore, I think that some people such as the highly defined scholar on the previous page who thought it'd be clever to insult me who feel they are on a certain level of entitlement because Jesus H Christ who knows. I joined this site to share experiences with fellow explorers and gain insight. If I wanted to dull my intelligence I'd go to 4chan. I wouldn't tolerate crap from a fellow explorer in person so why would I on here?

UE absolutely isn't the same from the stand point of exploring style, laws, local police attitudes, and societal attitude towards exploring. Unless you're referring to the basic act of exploring, itself?

What works in one city, absolutely won't work in another.

In my opinion, and ownership may differ, the site is broken up in to geographic sections because it makes it that much easier to connect with people from a specific geographic area. When I go exploring in Ontario, I post in that section...or reach out to frequent posters in that section, to learn more about the area and to see if any of the locals are interested in joining in on the fun.

I didn't mean, with my previous post, that anything should be more segregated. I meant that it might be a good idea if a section/sticky/something were added to explain some of the lesser known information about various cities/region. That way, people have an opportunity to learn before they find themselves in a squad car or have somehow done something contrary to generally accepted good taste.


As an example, a few things about MSP that people don't seem to realize:

1. Magic elves seem to keep locations open.

2. In Minneapolis, you can be arrested for "Lurking with intent to commit a crime"...as in, if the police even think you *might* commit a crime, you can be ticketed and forced to leave. Multiple explorers have been ticketed for this.

3. MPD actively monitors UER. They've shown up to UER events. Which is why you don't see otherwise well-known MSP events on UER.

4. In St Paul, if the police think you've been in a drain/tunnel in the previous four hours, you can be taken directly to jail for Gross Misdemeanor trespassing, Critical Infrastructure. It happens.

I'd be interested to know where you're from and in what other cities you've explored. Are there things you would be fine doing in one city that you wouldn't do in another?

Tis a shame that MSP Elite has it the way they do. But that is no reason to act the way they do towards others. MSP can run their area (that only includes MSP proper) and should leave the rest of UER to be happy and content.

MSP should have it's own area- password and secret handshake protected from the rest of UER- HELL! from the rest of the internet! Mods, can you guys work on getting MSP Elite complete control over the local MSP internet area?

Why is this area the only one with this sticky? http://www.uer.ca/...=1&threadid=115161


oh.... I know...


Carry on MSP Elite in protecting your drains and sewers. The rest of UER will be doing UER things and we will be happy about it.

Posted by cdevon Carry on MSP Elite in protecting your drains and sewers. The rest of UER will be doing UER things and we will be happy about it.

Contrary to what you might think, the MSP community is one of the largest most tight knit exploring communities in the world.

And as it happens, I had a pretty good understanding of how this community works before I ever became a UER member, simply by reading old posts on the forums. Of course being new you still aren't quite sure what is 100% acceptable to post and what now to post, and I made that mistake once. However, after my FIRST explore with a couple local members, I already felt welcomed to the community as soon as I showed my interest and intent for the lifestyle.

I guess you have to ask yourself this fundamental question. "Do I explore for myself? or do I explore to impress others?"

I know I explore for myself and my own reasons. Those who chose the latter, (the rooftop selfie crowd), chose to impress others while simultaneously ruin the hobby for others. I'm not saying this is 100% true in every case where someone posts photos online. But if you are doing this hobby for yourself, its in YOUR best interest to keep sensitive shit off the internet!!!

And yes Dal, Magical gnomes DO keep the locations open!

A couple of you have called down the mods so here we are.

Its really pretty simple, the UER TOS sections 5a and b describes what is not acceptable to post.

If you believe a post violates the TOS feel free to contact me or any other moderator.

If you think you're big enough (or elite enough) to enforce more stringent "local" guidelines you should probably do that on the street, face to face, not here on UER please.

I find it unfortunate that this community constantly has to defend itself from criticism. The MSP exploring community definitely has its divisions, but they all come together when they need to. The issue is that if you have never been here and seen the level of effort they put into keeping things accessible and the consequences they face in doing so....you really have no place chastising them for speaking up when someone comes out of nowhere and makes something much more visible to those who would do it harm.

Could they be nicer about the way they approach things? Probably....but there comes a point of frustration with the administration on this site and the happy go lucky care free attitude towards a real threat to the community.....you just start to get shitty and sarcastic....maybe jaded....

MSP explorers are some of the best people I have ever met. This is the big league kids. This is the nasa of exploring in the U.S. When you're ready for the UE space program come see us, but in the mean time.....get lost.

WOW... It doesn't matter how big or bad ass you think your NASA group is, Being an asshole is being an asshole- weather its as an individual or as a collective group. So...stop being assholes and you wont have a need to defend yourselves.

Posted by Lord Awesome I find it unfortunate that this community constantly has to defend itself from criticism. The MSP exploring community definitely has its divisions, but they all come together when they need to. The issue is that if you have never been here and seen the level of effort they put into keeping things accessible and the consequences they face in doing so....you really have no place chastising them for speaking up when someone comes out of nowhere and makes something much more visible to those who would do it harm. Could they be nicer about the way they approach things? Probably....but there comes a point of frustration with the administration on this site and the happy go lucky care free attitude towards a real threat to the community.....you just start to get shitty and sarcastic....maybe jaded.... MSP explorers are some of the best people I have ever met. This is the big league kids. This is the nasa of exploring in the U.S. When you're ready for the UE space program come see us, but in the mean time.....get lost.

You my friend, are one of kind, and a gentleman.

Posted by cdevon WOW... It doesn't matter how big or bad ass you think your NASA group is, Being an asshole is being an asshole- weather its as an individual or as a collective group. So...stop being assholes and you wont have a need to defend yourselves.

Says the guy with the word "asshole" for his avatar

In all seriousness though, I hardly think MSP has a monopoly on assholery. In fact, every regional forum on UER that I've looked at has threads where people start going off on each other. I think the real difference isn't that we are some kind of special breed of asshole, but rather, that we tend tend to get upset over things that might not necessarily bother others. The behavior is the same -- the impetus is just different.

As far as the idea that since we're (apparently) some kind of super 1337 cult, we should just "enforce" our views "on the street" (a charming turn of phrase), and stay of UER altogether, is that UER is THE public face of exploring -- for better or worse. When new people figure out about this hobby and Google it, UER is going to be the first thing to come up. And, as other have pointed out, things aren't the same here as they are in other regions. Going out half-cocked not only gets locations destroyed and sealed, but results in (with depressing regularity), people getting arrested, seriously injured, or dying.

For example, I started exploring around here without paying any attention to what the locals were saying, and this was the result:

http://www.uer.ca/...rrpage=2&pp#post21

Suffice to say, I learned my lesson. Thankfully, no one was seriously hurt, but that's not always the case:

http://www.myfoxtw...ft-cave-in-st-paul

http://news.minnes.../28_ap_cavedeaths/

http://www.critica...gedy-in-bryn-mawr/

http://m.startribu...ogs/272315551.html

Whether we want to be a part of UER or not is a moot point. We can't afford to ignore it.

I think all Lord Awesome is attempting to convey is that there is a background to the assholery, and folks should give that background some thought. Even assholes are better dealt with if they are understood. That said -- I, too, do not think any of these folks are assholes, having spent a lot of time with them In Real Life. Urbex Space Program is right! These guys and gals are fucking incredible, and you won't get any other story from folks who have spent any amount of time here.

Posted by 2Xplorations Its really pretty simple, the UER TOS sections 5a and b describes what is not acceptable to post. If you believe a post violates the TOS feel free to contact me or any other moderator.

Section 5b (v) of the UER TOS describes no posting of entry details.

Posted by Jobobby (O.P.) ... Anyways, I took my pictures, found an unlocked building, and did some photographing and exploring... click to view click to view

I would like to see this information removed; it can easily be understood a door on one of these two buildings photographed was unlocked, making it way too easy to figure out where to get into such a significantly historic complex, especially since most of these buildings are connected in series underground. I'm sure you read what I sent DJ Craig a few days ago.

Posted by 2Xplorations A couple of you have called down the mods so here we are. Its really pretty simple, the UER TOS sections 5a and b describes what is not acceptable to post. If you believe a post violates the TOS feel free to contact me or any other moderator. If you think you're big enough (or elite enough) to enforce more stringent "local" guidelines you should probably do that on the street, face to face, not here on UER please.

I'd like to make it clear that I'm not interested in "enforcing" anything, just making people aware, in the same way that the Trespassing Law sticky in the Ontario section spreads awareness. Purely informative. I mean only to provide the information. Nobody can be compelled to read it.

I think it would be beneficial for many different areas...I use MSP as an example because that's where I explore the most.

I know of places in other states where theres always one issue or another, areas where local communities aren't really a thing. It would be valuable if there were something on UER that indicated trouble spots, or other useful area/region specific information... not just in some obscure thread 3 pages back.

Only a suggestion.

MSP is by far my favorite community to visit due to their organization, dedication and welcoming attitude to those who give "their way" a chance. Every single explorer i've met in the MSP area has been nothing but amazing and kind to myself and whoever i bring along to their meets and gatherings. They really go out of their way to make sure out-of-towners have an excellent stay and experience.

Once an MSP "n00b" explores with members of "MSP ELITE" (usually after posting sensitive information on UER or other similar screw-ups, as that's how the community usually finds/meets them), they understand why things are the way they are and why things are done the way they are done. After experiencing these sort of guidelines, if you will, they usually don't make those sort of "n00b" mistakes again. They are welcomed into a tight-knit community because they then understand how things are and should be, and they adapt/except it because it makes sense.

Things aren't only done differently in MSP than most of the U.S., but some may say that they're even done better than most of the U.S.. It all comes down to the efficiency of the community, and in my opinion, MSP is miles ahead of the rest of the country.

I love drama.... more more more....