Hi everyone,

I feel is is important to notify you all of an update to the forum rules.

The rules can be found here:
http://www.uer.ca/...asp?threadid=30511

The update in question is the addition of this rule, which states:

2. Asking someone to take down a post that you don't like is NOT ALLOWED, and is considered harassment. (Exception: The post is defamatory, contains your personal information, or violates any of the other rules).

To clarify, here are some examples of when it IS and IS NOT acceptable to ask someone to take down or modify their post:

• The post contains a photo of you or your name or other personal details? Yes, you can ask, or report it to the mods.
  
• The post makes racist comments about another member? Report it to the mods.
  
• The post contains photos of your favourite hangout spot? Sorry, but that's their right to post.
  
• The post contains location information for a place you consider to be sensitive? Sorry, but that's their right to post. You can ask the mods to make it viewable for full members only, but you are not allowed to harass the poster and ask them to take it down.
  

UER was built on the foundation of sharing photos, stories, and information. I have no interest in providing a platform for a secret service police to run wild, twisting people's arms when they post local hangout spots that they consider to be "theirs".

-av

Thanks!

Thumbs up, X.

I think common sense should be applied here.

Sending a one time message to the tone of, "Hey I see that you posted Johnson Factory. Perhaps you might consider removing the name and address. It's not been touched by vandals." is not harassment. It's courtesy and in many cases the OP can be receptive. Worse case, a polite but firm 'no' is the reply.

Sending repeated messages or "hey asshole why the hell did you post Johnson's address, now anyone can find it." would be harassment.

We've seen members ask for their own posts to be removed after receiving advice from more seasoned explorers. It's not the act itself that is wrong, it's the tone used and the methods used that might make it wrong.

Yes, but unfortunately, I've received way too many complaints from members who've been bullied. I hate to think how many people have just left outright without complaining.

-av

Makes sense to me!

Don't understand why anyone would feel the need to harass another member because they gave away the location of a shit-hole abandonment covered in graf. Chances are that it won't be around for the long term anyway, unless it has some historical importance, in which case, the offender should get a severe tongue lashing!

Posted by Avatar-X The post makes racist comments about another member? Report it to the mods.

Does that include disparaging remarks about particular nationalities? For example, posts including things like "The French are so gay" or "Americans blame everyone else for their problems" Could be considered equally offensive.

Yes -- the policy towards hateful or racist comments is unchanged.

Posted by Talisman Don't understand why anyone would feel the need to harass another member because they gave away the location of a shit-hole abandonment covered in graf. Chances are that it won't be around for the long term anyway, unless it has some historical importance, in which case, the offender should get a severe tongue lashing!

Yeah except there's a few members who name pretty much pristine locations, give full names/addresses and post info publically (not FM, but wide open to anyone who looks). And this has (we assume, can't prove it) led to some really nice places being trashed, sealed and/or demolished after sitting perfectly fine for YEARS.

Honestly, to me it's all about respect for the hobby and respect for the locations. But some people tend to think "Hey I've been here already so IDGAF if nobody else can come see it in the same pristine condition it's in now. I'll just post public details about it and make it easy for EVERYONE to find."

Its BS and shouldn't be allowed. Now I understand the whole "if it's trashed who cares" motto, but there are some really nice places that get treated the same way and it's a real shame.

I respect AV for his decision to make this a rule, but I do not respect anyone who reveals personal info on great locations publically.

The simple solution to the problem that Skye mentions is to make the thread private. Problem solved.

I'm not going to create a rule disallowing the posting of basic information that anyone with Google can find. We already disallow the posting of entry information, and that coupled with Private threads is good enough in my book.

-av

Just want to toss this out there, " in my experience " most places around me that got trashed, got that way from people who did not even know what a UER was . 9 times out of 10 your damage happens from locals who are not explorers or part of a community online... and thats impossible to control

while its great to do our part to police the people here on UER , remember , AV's reach with rules only goes as far as people who visit this site, and like I said 9 times out of 10 your vandal doesnt view UER

Posted by Mike Dijital 9 times out of 10 your vandal doesnt view UER

This. Local kids have been smashing their way into all sorts of places to tag them up and steal shit a lot longer than UER has been online. In fact, in many cases, it's thanks to the vandals that entrances are created for us explorers to gain entry in the first place.

-av

Posted by Skye_Ann Honestly, to me it's all about respect for the hobby and respect for the locations. But some people tend to think "Hey I've been here already so IDGAF if nobody else can come see it in the same pristine condition it's in now. I'll just post public details about it and make it easy for EVERYONE to find."

Don't worry, Bill Finan has been banned many times.

I view this update as a way to slowly phase out the policing of brand new members (who for all we know could have tons of new places and experiences to share) but are so turned off by some of the more established members of this site that they simply choose to leave all together instead of dealing with the PM's and public hazing.


Also, the new policy should roll over to database entries as well for those of us who choose to use it.

Well done Av, I'm happy to be apart of a community with an administrator that cares so much for the well being of his members.

Protecting the feelings of newbies at the expense of preserving locations.

Makes sense.

In all seriousness though, it seems like most of the "harassing" on the thread in question was done by people with 3 and 6 month stars. It's not like the "old-time" explorers jumped down the guys throat (although that does happen and I disagree with it).

Having said that, isn't there a difference between PMing somebody saying "hey, that's awesome you found that spot. It's one of my favorites and I would like to go explore it with you sometime. But you should know that the cops/property owners/whatever keep a real close eye on it and people have been arrested/hurt/whatever there before. You might want to consider taking those photos down in the interest of preserving the location" And saying something along the lines of "boo, fuck off you noob and take down those pictures" ?

I agree that the latter is unacceptable and people who engage in that sort of behavior should be dealt with. However, I am worried that this new rule eliminates the ability for more experienced explorers to share some of their experience with new guys and gals.

Posted by CowboyDan Protecting the feelings of newbies at the expense of preserving locations. Makes sense.

Yaaaay, you keep out 1 or 2 UER kids, now explain your plan to " preserve a location" from Scrappers, Local kids, People not on UER but on other forums, people not on forums googling, people who drove by and saw it, Developers


Oh do tell me the master plan for that.

This is an internet forum doing well in a time when internet forums dont do well, AV is clearly trying to promote new blood to keep the torch going so this forum doesnt turn into a ghost town, and not let new members be scared off by the old guard of entitlement telling them how to post, act, and explore

Posted by Mike Dijital Yaaaay, you keep out 1 or 2 UER kids, now explain your plan to " preserve a location" from Scrappers, Local kids, People not on UER but on other forums, people not on forums googling, people who drove by and saw it, Developers Oh do tell me the master plan for that.

My first comment was snippy of me and I apologize. I can be a sarcastic ass hole at times.

I don't have a master plan for keeping out scrapers and the like. And frankly, you are right; I don't think the majority of damage to locations is caused by UER leaks.

However, if location preservation is your criterion for successful exploration (and it is for mine) posting photos on UER can, AT BEST, cause a neutral reaction (nothing at the spot changes). At worst it can get places sealed, either directly (the property owners see the post) or indirectly (someone sees it on UER tells his/friends and they get caught tagging etc.)

I think the post that resulted in this rule change was fine. I'm of the the "don't post public photos of anything school," but I didn't jump in and tell the guy to take his stuff down. The location didn't register as "sensitive" for me.

I'm worried that this rule change makes no distinction between friendly advice and noob flaming, and that change might result in negative consequences for preserving locations that are of the more sensitive variety.

In the end, i dont know you or your experiances, but let me lay some of mine on you

I live in Massachusetts, we had 9 abandoned state hospitals, 4 of them kirkbrides, all within 1 hour driving distance of each other, the explorers used to fight till days end on UER, Deggi 5, Opacity, myspace groups, facebook grouts etc etc about not giving entrances, info, preserving, keeping out vandals, blah blah blah... here we are 10 years later.. how many asylums in mass. 0, how many kirkbrides, 0, ... what did all those words of war really protect?

so many arguments, late night bad feelings on forums, hurt feeling, discouraging no0bs from seeing stuff that is now condos....

every wall that got graffitti'd window smashed, item stolen, entrance sealed up matters not .... its all gone, hind sight iis always 20/20 and I think about how much more of those fantastic places I could have seen if I wasnt so busy policing the places I had already been


in my old age wisdom has taking over my brash youth and taught me this one important lesson, You cant control anyone but yourself... use that control to enjoy the moment you have in the location your in. there is no guarantee it will be there for you tomorrow. Instead of spending your energy policing a place you have already seen, spend it finding a place you haven't . The best explorers in history didnt spend all their time protecting what they found, but adventuring to the next big thing

It's important to remember that, since this is an Urban Exploration forum, connecting with other explorers and sharing photos and experiences are the entire reason for this site to exist. Asking people to take down their posts in a passive-aggressive way is counterproductive to the mission of this site.

Your "At Best" example doesn't take into account all the positives that can happen from a photoset being posted on UER -- namely, that more people are able to enjoy the beauty of the location without having to travel there and fellate the locals in the hopes of gaining access.

I've seen amazing places all over the world on UER, Infiltration, and other sites, places like Gunkanjima in Japan or Saddam's palaces in Iraq or even cool places all over the US, that I'd probably never be able to see otherwise. I don't have the time or the money to travel the world, so I am supremely happy that other people in those faraway places are kind enough to share their explorations with me.

Posted by CowboyDan Having said that, isn't there a difference between PMing somebody saying "hey, that's awesome you found that spot. It's one of my favorites and I would like to go explore it with you sometime. But you should know that the cops/property owners/whatever keep a real close eye on it and people have been arrested/hurt/whatever there before. You might want to consider taking those photos down in the interest of preserving the location" And saying something along the lines of "boo, fuck off you noob and take down those pictures" ?

Unfortunately, the latter group may have ruined it for the former group.