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UER Forum > Rookie Forum > How to deal with security (Viewed 8936 times)
Dantay 


Location: Mobile, AL
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How to deal with security
< on 6/8/2014 5:00 AM >
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I've run from cops, been caught by cops, run from gangs, ran from gangs and cops at the same site and time and I would like not to repeat these experiences. I've staked out some places but that takes some gas. Does anyone have any ideas from experience on how to

1. Avoid security or
2. Work your way out of a problem if you get caught by cops or security.
3. If there is no way out without being caught by security/cops should you make a break for it? or be forward and go out to meet them?




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KyleSh 


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Re: How to deal with security
< Reply # 1 on 6/8/2014 6:49 AM >
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1. First of all, if a place has security it probably isn't quite as abandoned as you think it is. Depending on the place, you may have a shot at just asking to enter. Don't bother asking security, they don't have that power. Liability reasons. Contact the owner(s) if possible. Tax records will help you.

If you decide to evade security: observe security habits and routes. This need not be on a different trip, you can stake out for a while before deciding on a POE. Avoid these areas and don't make a move at any significant time block (:00, :15, :30, :45). Any out of the ordinary plans will almost always occur at those intervals.


2. If you are caught by security/cops: be calm, show them your hands. Convey to them that you are a responsible adult that is simply taking pictures. 9 times out of 10 you will be escorted off the property or given a verbal warning. If you're caught by a small amount of *unarmed* security officers and you sense the situation going south, you can make a break for it if the logistics are right.

3. Never run unless you are absolutely sure you can make it. Otherwise, prepare to kiss ass and sell your story.

Other than that, welcome to UER! Good to see new blood in Alabama here.



[last edit 6/8/2014 6:51 AM by KyleSh - edited 2 times]

Dantay 


Location: Mobile, AL
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Re: How to deal with security
< Reply # 2 on 6/8/2014 6:20 PM >
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if possible. Tax records will help you.


You're saying keep proof that I am a legal citizen and not a criminal? or look into their tax records?


don't make a move at any significant time block (:00, :15, :30, :45). Any out of the ordinary plans will almost always occur at those intervals.


I had never thought of that before but it makes a ton of sense.
Great tips for the newcomer. Thanks.





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UrbanBuck 


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Re: How to deal with security
< Reply # 3 on 6/8/2014 9:58 PM >
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Top tip of advice: Never run from security, I never have and never have been in trouble with them, mostly just told to leave (maybe I'm just lucky to have not dealt with a lot of security). I do acknowledge though that there are plenty of douche-bag security officers out there willing to get you into trouble.

But if you really really want to do that stuff with security, go in a group of 3-4 QUIET AND CALM (Calm as in they don't have anxiety issues) people (I'll explain below). Avoid locations with more than 1 security guard per acre. As stated above, try to scout ahead of time and observe security guard habits. If you really really want to explore a place with tons of security use a red lens flashlight or put red cellophane over your flashlight. If the security officer is armed, don't even attempt to run (bullets travel faster than you, and so do taser darts). If the security guard (unarmed) IS chasing you and your friends, make an agreement ahead of time on a split-up plan and a re-location plan. From my experience, that has worked. The security guards are usually so confused they spend about 5-10 crucial seconds deciding who to chase or considering if it's worth chasing at all. Another thing too is try and think about where nearby railroad tracks are. The security can not leave that property, and since your group has split up they do not know if any of them will return in any second to cause damages (which the security guard will be in trouble for).

Do NOT use the split-up plan with gangs or multiple security/armed security/cops. Because gangs generally travel in large groups, if someone gets cornered they could potentially be killed. And running from armed security/cops could get you shot and up any potential trespassing charge to a felony.

Another thing, if you're getting caught and chased a lot, reconsider how you approach urbexing with stealth. Don't wear bright, colorful clothes, multi-color clothes, or pieces of article that make you stand out like a sore thumb (like a hoodie). Wear darker coolers (they don't have to be black, frequently i urbex with dark green shirts). Don't dress up with the standard criminal/thug/trouble-maker look. If you're never seen, you'll never have those happened. I've only been chased twice urbexing a long time. I've been stopped by security at a PoE twice as well, but that's when I never really considered in-depth the importance of being stealthy.

Edit: Getting into contact has worked for me at three locations at the past. More likely than not it'll be an unsuccessful attempt, but a good way to find the owner's info is to find the location on Google Maps, right click the location, and click 'What's here?'. Then search the nearby red pin's address on google, sometimes you can get information from real estate agencies and once i even got a link directly to the owner's phone number.



[last edit 6/8/2014 10:00 PM by UrbanBuck - edited 1 times]

Dantay 


Location: Mobile, AL
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Re: How to deal with security
< Reply # 4 on 6/9/2014 12:09 AM >
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I always go in dark clothing and only wear a hoodie if going through woods. The only reason I've had to deal with the security before was my friends were making too much noise; needless to say never brought them around again. thanks for the specific case examples and I wholly agree that the best thing is to not be seen. I created this thread for more of an ICE plan. You pretty much suggested what to do in any situation, so thanks.




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Dantay 


Location: Mobile, AL
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Re: How to deal with security
< Reply # 5 on 6/9/2014 12:09 AM >
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I always go in dark clothing and only wear a hoodie if going through woods. The only reason I've had to deal with the security before was my friends were making too much noise; needless to say never brought them around again. thanks for the specific case examples and I wholly agree that the best thing is to not be seen. I created this thread for more of an ICE plan. You pretty much suggested what to do in any situation, so thanks.




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Hertz 


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Re: How to deal with security
< Reply # 6 on 6/16/2014 4:01 PM >
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Personally ran into security twice; once was inevitable, so we just basically gave up. (Basically as soon as we set foot on the property we saw rent a cops using a private security vehicle... but we didn't want to leave without SOME shots.)

Get your cover story square before your neck deep into the place. No trespassing? Sure, but did you see signs? If not, or if there aren't many of them, you can easily play dumb. Have your cover story, and go with 1 buddy or a very small amount of equally quiet buddies. But in all honesty, cops & security are the least of your concerns.

I have never had my run-in with gangs. The only think I would say - and again this is an educated guess - is be friendly and play somewhat dumb. If it's a random person you come across, just continue on your way, and be friendly. A group of people, keep it civil, you were on your way out, thanks bye. Scrub the rest of the trip.

If anyone has better advice on gangs, I would be happy to hear them also.




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relik 


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Re: How to deal with security
< Reply # 7 on 6/17/2014 9:12 PM >
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skatchkins 


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Re: How to deal with security
< Reply # 8 on 6/17/2014 10:02 PM >
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Just spoke this past weekend to an on duty guard. He was a wealth of information and was excited for the opp to show us around everywhere, IF we contacted the property manager and got permission first. Hoping they are as nice as he is.




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TunnelRunner33 


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Re: How to deal with security
< Reply # 9 on 6/19/2014 5:18 PM >
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While you never know with in-house security, a lot of the contract security companies like Securitas operate under general rules not to detain people but instead to call the police (though I have heard of differences in this matter for certain contracts or sites). If I were stopped by an unarmed contract security guard from one of the big companies, I might try slowly and peacefully walking away, maybe asking the guard as I do so if I can leave. If they are forbidden to detain you, they should be a bit hesitant of telling you that you cannot leave.

I really like the comment someone made about splitting up if you are in a group with the plan of reuniting at a predesignated rally point. This can even work while walking. If a group of, say, four explorers all started walking away at once in different directions, most people would hesitate enough that at least a few of them would get away.

As far as covering the face: I think it depends on what I am doing. In general, I fear that an explorer wearing a face mask might be more likely to be shot 'in self defense' by an overzealous security guard or property owner. People in masks really freak other people the fuck out, especially if it's late at night and they are where they are not supposed to be. But if I am going to run around in a place with no on-site security but lots of cameras, I might cover my face just to prevent it from being saved on video and passed on to the PD. I guess it just depends on context.




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stickbeat 


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Re: How to deal with security
< Reply # 10 on 7/14/2014 3:31 AM >
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Tip for women exploring, together or solo. When dealing with security, I've found that it helps immensely to play 'the bimbo.' When security comes knocking, nine times out of ten I've been able to just pull a 'Oh this place has security? But it looks so abandoned. I'm working on a project for my photography class and I just couldn't resist.'

Obviously this only works if you look un-threatening, which in North America means Small White (dumb) Girl.

Sometimes the guards will let you finish your photo project, sometimes they'll escort you out, and then that one time in ten they'll beat your ass.




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mookster 


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Re: How to deal with security
< Reply # 11 on 8/1/2014 10:36 PM >
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Whether to run or not is purely a judgement call. Can you make it over the fence or otherwise off the site before they catch you? I've rarely run for it, only when I knew 100% I could make it off site as they spotted me way across from the other side of large locations.

Nowadays I am generally too unfit to run unless I absolutely have to, usually to escape a bad situation or one that threatens to turn bad very quickly like has happened a couple of times.

If caught by security, be nice, polite, offer to leave of your own accord and show them you were only taking photos. 99% of the time they will be absolutely fine and may even be happy for a bit of company, as don't forget security guards have a pretty lonely job. Mates of mine have been collared by security before and been able to walk back through sites the long way round taking photos as they go etc. Very very occasionally you will get a total knobber on a power trip who decides to be an idiot, in which case the best bet is to get out as quick as you can. In the UK security guards have no legal right to even lay a finger on you as then you can do them for assault, nor do they have a right to stop you from leaving (false imprisonment) yet some decide to take the laws into their own hands - I'm not sure if it's the same over in the states though.

Bottom line is being polite and well mannered can get you out of a load of trouble, if you decide to act like a mouthy sod towards security or police for no reason you're lining yourself up for a bit of quiet time in some cells...






[last edit 8/1/2014 10:37 PM by mookster - edited 1 times]

Sholuck 


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Re: How to deal with security
< Reply # 12 on 8/14/2014 2:20 PM >
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Posted by TunnelRunner33
While you never know with in-house security, a lot of the contract security companies like Securitas operate under general rules not to detain people but instead to call the police (though I have heard of differences in this matter for certain contracts or sites). If I were stopped by an unarmed contract security guard from one of the big companies, I might try slowly and peacefully walking away, maybe asking the guard as I do so if I can leave. If they are forbidden to detain you, they should be a bit hesitant of telling you that you cannot leave.


As a full time guard for Securitas, i can confirm this exactly. But it depends on the way you treat the guard. For example, if i see someone on the site that i am working at, i will more than likely just ask them to leave, or let them walk around a bit more. But if they become argumentative and disrespectful, then they will be getting booted by the proper authorities. I mentioned this in my introduction post, please dont treat me any different than anyone else on this forum just because i am security. I am not here to bust anyone. I am here to enjoy this hobby for what it is. One of the perks of being security is that i am often placed at abandoned place. I love these places for the history, the beauty, and for the most part the seclusion.




jtan 


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Re: How to deal with security
< Reply # 13 on 8/14/2014 10:13 PM >
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Heads up, in a lot of high-security places, it is standard protocol for the security guard to first radio in about a possible intruder, then go and investigate, so if you seem threatening, you may be in for some serious trouble.




superphoenix 


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Re: How to deal with security
< Reply # 14 on 8/16/2014 6:15 AM >
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Don't go with people you can't fully trust.




alexcell33 


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Re: How to deal with security
< Reply # 15 on 8/16/2014 7:11 AM >
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Theres a big difference between security and police. Security has no more authority than any other citizen. Personally if security is giving me a hard time I just walk away and ignore them completely. If they touch you, respond with appropriate force. They can't detain you and never let them even try.

If its an actual police officer, just know your rights... i.e. don't let them delete photos, or search you, or demand ID if you know you don't have to show it. On the other hand never resist or become aggressive, ONLY talk your way out of the situation, even if they are violating your rights.

And if you want to run from the cops? Well you better be fast!




SouthPaw 


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Re: How to deal with security
< Reply # 16 on 11/14/2014 10:39 PM >
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I see a few people have touched on it here, but with cops in particular: Be Respectful. I know it might seem tough, or like they are hassling you, but keep a level head about it.

I know a number of cops, and the general consensus is that if you're not stopped for a major ticketable offense (say, 20+ over the speed limit or defiant trespass) as long as you're cool and respectful, 9 times out of 10, they will let you off with a warning and not ticket you.




Tarrant 

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Re: How to deal with security
< Reply # 17 on 11/14/2014 11:12 PM >
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Posted by KyleSh
1. First of all, if a place has security it probably isn't quite as abandoned as you think it is. Depending on the place, you may have a shot at just asking to enter. Don't bother asking security, they don't have that power. Liability reasons. Contact the owner(s) if possible. Tax records will help you.


2. If you are caught by security/cops: be calm, show them your hands. Convey to them that you are a responsible adult that is simply taking pictures. 9 times out of 10 you will be escorted off the property or given a verbal warning. If you're caught by a small amount of *unarmed* security officers and you sense the situation going south, you can make a break for it if the logistics are right.



This isnt true at all, depending where you go. High profile locations more times than not, you will be arrested on site. This goes for state hospitals, partially used buildings(where a section is in use still or the grounds the building sits on are in use. Etc power plants)or churches. So if you are somewhere that has security or frequent police patrols, be ready to take the consequences if you do end up getting caught. Time of day/night has a lot to do with that, which is why most of the time i predawn places like that.


Posted by UrbanBuck
Top tip of advice: Never run from security, I never have and never have been in trouble with them, mostly just told to leave (maybe I'm just lucky to have not dealt with a lot of security). I do acknowledge though that there are plenty of douche-bag security officers out there willing to get you into trouble.

Do NOT use the split-up plan with gangs or multiple security/armed security/cops. Because gangs generally travel in large groups, if someone gets cornered they could potentially be killed. And running from armed security/cops could get you shot and up any potential trespassing charge to a felony.




If you're running away, they can't shoot you...There is no imminent threat to life. Hes right about the charges though. If you are caught after running, they'll screw you 10 times from Sunday with no lube. So IF you do run, you better hope you can get away.




esprod 


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Re: How to deal with security
< Reply # 18 on 11/15/2014 1:34 AM >
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Posted by Tarrant


This isnt true at all, depending where you go. High profile locations more times than not, you will be arrested on site. This goes for state hospitals, partially used buildings(where a section is in use still or the grounds the building sits on are in use. Etc power plants)or churches. So if you are somewhere that has security or frequent police patrols, be ready to take the consequences if you do end up getting caught. Time of day/night has a lot to do with that, which is why most of the time i predawn places like that.




If you're running away, they can't shoot you...There is no imminent threat to life. Hes right about the charges though. If you are caught after running, they'll screw you 10 times from Sunday with no lube. So IF you do run, you better hope you can get away.



Perhaps in Texas but I find more often than not if you talk with security / police they're going to let you go. So I wouldn't go calling out him and saying it's not true at all when you could say the same about your statement. All depends on the area and also location as you did say. But the only times I've had run-ins are on properties you pointed out that you'd get in trouble for and they let us go. I will say if you have the option of hiding or escaping and you know you can do so without being seen then obviously go that route. But if you've already been spotted you better be damn sure that you know you can get away. Because if one things for sure what could of been a simple hey don't do that mkay? now get out of here. Once you start running from the cops quickly escalates into additional offenses. Even if you do end up getting a ride back in the cruiser your charges are far less than obstructing justice or resisting arrest which you'll get when they catch you running.

I did an explore right across the street from a state prison at a abandoned hospital and we saw the spotlight come around the corner. Mid winter ice everywhere and snow, knew we weren't going to get out of there in time / clean instead approached the cruiser with our hands visible and said hello. He chatted with us and had some stories and told us about the property even gave us a ride back to where we had parked. Now mind you I don't recommend that option and you can sit there and yell YOU'RE STUPID from your chair. However we felt out the situation and the cop was more interested in telling us stories and the fact that we didn't make him work on a cold winter day. He asked why we didn't just run and I said Office I'm not stupid the last thing I want is to have a pissed off cop chasing after me in the middle of the night in the winter and be charged with resisting arrest. He laughed and said excellent point.




Tarrant 

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Re: How to deal with security
< Reply # 19 on 11/15/2014 2:15 AM >
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Posted by esprod


Perhaps in Texas but I find more often than not if you talk with security / police they're going to let you go. So I wouldn't go calling out him and saying it's not true at all when you could say the same about your statement. All depends on the area and also location as you did say. But the only times I've had run-ins are on properties you pointed out that you'd get in trouble for and they let us go. I will say if you have the option of hiding or escaping and you know you can do so without being seen then obviously go that route. But if you've already been spotted you better be damn sure that you know you can get away. Because if one things for sure what could of been a simple hey don't do that mkay? now get out of here. Once you start running from the cops quickly escalates into additional offenses. Even if you do end up getting a ride back in the cruiser your charges are far less than obstructing justice or resisting arrest which you'll get when they catch you running.

I did an explore right across the street from a state prison at a abandoned hospital and we saw the spotlight come around the corner. Mid winter ice everywhere and snow, knew we weren't going to get out of there in time / clean instead approached the cruiser with our hands visible and said hello. He chatted with us and had some stories and told us about the property even gave us a ride back to where we had parked. Now mind you I don't recommend that option and you can sit there and yell YOU'RE STUPID from your chair. However we felt out the situation and the cop was more interested in telling us stories and the fact that we didn't make him work on a cold winter day. He asked why we didn't just run and I said Office I'm not stupid the last thing I want is to have a pissed off cop chasing after me in the middle of the night in the winter and be charged with resisting arrest. He laughed and said excellent point.



I've explored all around the United states pal. Not just Texas lol. I'm originally from New Jersey...clearly you haven't explored the mass hospitals if you don't think you'll get arrested there if caught...



[last edit 11/15/2014 2:18 AM by Tarrant - edited 1 times]

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