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UER Forum > Archived UE Main > What is the point of copyrighting UE web sites if people keep copying your stuff? (Viewed 1559 times)
Panic! 

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What is the point of copyrighting UE web sites if people keep copying your stuff?
< on 8/27/2006 12:27 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
I was just browsing a UE related web site and yet again found a part of my web site on it. I mean what is the point of copyrighting stuff if people keep copying my web site or parts of it. And I don't mean paraphrasing it or writing stuff in their own words, I mean copying parts of it wholesale, word for word.

IT PISSES ME OFF!

Way way back when I first started my web site I was accused falsely many times of copying my material from elsewhere. I never did. I wrote every word on my own. Every single word. But time and time again I've seen my web site copied, I've seen pictures from my web site copied on to other web sites. I've seen whole areas of my web site end up on project sites for uni students (which I don't mind so much). I've even seen whole chunks of the material I wrote on asbestos and confined spaces end up on government web sites in the UK and even word for word in a book. (And I didn't get paid a cent despite having written virtually every word and haven tken almost all the pictures in two books published by a major printing house).

Amd I'm not the only one. Turbozutek ended up getting pictures from his web site in a newspaper, modified, edited and used without his permission.

Now I see an image from my web site on a web site of a draining organisation which has been edited and incorrectly labelled "Photo courtesy of Panic!" Courtesy yes, with permission no. After all the dramas of this group using my pictures on their web site in the past you think they would have learned. At least they could have put my name on the damn credits page!

Then there is another UE web site which has copied who paragraphs from my web site some months ago just to argue that I am mistaken in calling a tunnel a tunnel: http://www.tcuec.com/20060110.pdf
Who are these idiots? Can't they read a copyright policy? Sure, they have a right to rebut something if they want to, but they don't have to copy my material, they can just link to it. And besides, who gives a shit if you want to argue that a sewer is not a tunnel? It's not a damn freeway flyover is it?

But worst of all, I've just found another UE web site that features almost 40 pictures copied exclusively from the CD version of my web site along with pages of text. Those images have never been published online, and don't contain a watermark. They are accompanies with a nice line of bullcrap about a "exploring group" who seem to be new on the scene and must be trying to make a name for themselves.

The really dumb thing is that in all of these cases I would have let people use my images and text if they had of asked. My copyright policy explains that clearly: http://www.urbanad...ight/copyright.htm

There are a good number of web sites out there that use images and text from my web site with permission. Particuarly transport and rail web sites. I have even allowed some new start up UE web sites to use some of my un published images. It is not an issue. They asked, I said yes, no problem and it's all good. So why do some people just go ahead, ignore the copyright and just don't ask? No courtesy? No ethics? Just too lazy? Or deliberately out to stir up trouble for me when I notice?

Mind you, the funny side of this is that when I looked up the details of the YUEC web site I discovered that the registration address is the minneapolis police department and I have already sent them a bill for use of my text.

I am not looking forward though to sending domainsbyproxy.com their bill for copyright breach. It would be nicer if people from the organisation involved just removed my image. It would have been much nicer if they asked in the first place.


I know many people will be thinking "if it is on the internet then it is public domain" or words to that effect. No, if it is on the Internet it is still copyright. I mean how would we like it if some of Kowalski's beautiful drain shots ended up in a coffee table book and he not only never got paid for them, but was never credited with taking them? Or if those nice images of the Lister Block ended up in a book credited to some one else? Or if your whole web site word for word ended up being copied and attributed to some one else. It is not right, plain and simple.

Sorry for the rant, just one of my major bug bears. Particuarly in the case of an image provided courtesy of me, but not with my permission.



Edited for spelling.
[last edit 8/27/2006 12:39 PM by Panic! - edited 1 times]

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fedge 


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Re: What is the point of copyrighting UE web sites if people keep copying your stuff?
<Reply # 1 on 8/27/2006 12:31 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Some among this hobby can't be bothered to actually go out and explore on their own and simply copy other people's work. It's pretty lame. It's clearly an infringement on copyright. The pics/text is yours, bottom line.

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Tek-69 


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Re: What is the point of copyrighting UE web sites if people keep copying your stuff?
<Reply # 2 on 8/27/2006 1:43 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Some people are just assholes man, If you think you got a shot take legal action. Stealing your work is a shitty thing to do and you should definitely try and at least get the credit you deserve. Sometimes it's not even about the money. I wouldn't care if someone used my pics or words as long as I was credited and they asked, if they didn't I'd be just as mad as you are.

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MutantMandias 

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Re: What is the point of copyrighting UE web sites if people keep copying your stuff?
<Reply # 3 on 8/27/2006 2:07 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
As I've always waid, Some among this hobby can't be bothered to actually go out and explore on their own and simply copy other people's work. It's pretty lame. It's clearly an infringement on copyright. The pics/text is yours, bottom line.

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yokes 


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Re: What is the point of copyrighting UE web sites if people keep copying your stuff?
<Reply # 4 on 8/27/2006 3:38 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
I believe in the US, you can use someone else's intellectual property for critique without asking permission first. I don't know about other jurisdictions (including my own, frankly).

Other than that, though, I think you'd have a nice basis for lawsuits.

"Great architecture has only two natural enemies: water and stupid men." - Richard Nickel
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Re: What is the point of copyrighting UE web sites if people keep copying your stuff?
<Reply # 5 on 8/27/2006 4:29 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Man thats real shitty. But you know, if people are stealing your stuff, that must mean that your stuff is atleast decent if not awesome right?

[quote][i]Posted by yokes[/i]
I find your lack of coziness.... disturbing.
[/quote]
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Re: What is the point of copyrighting UE web sites if people keep copying your stuff?
<Reply # 6 on 8/27/2006 5:04 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
I agree with tron. Despite the crappy situation, you can at least feel flattered that so many people think so highly of your work that they want to pass it off as their own. It's like that saying, "Imitation is the most sincere form of flattery." Except they're going a bit beyond imitation, of course.

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fedge 


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Re: What is the point of copyrighting UE web sites if people keep copying your stuff?
<Reply # 7 on 8/27/2006 7:07 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by MutantMandias
As I've always waid, Some among this hobby can't be bothered to actually go out and explore on their own and simply copy other people's work. It's pretty lame. It's clearly an infringement on copyright. The pics/text is yours, bottom line.

Grrr! Lawsuit coming soon! © 2006 fedge.



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TrixieSparrow 


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Re: What is the point of copyrighting UE web sites if people keep copying your stuff?
<Reply # 8 on 8/27/2006 7:45 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
make sure u back ur shit up with copy rights. then when they take it without permission u can nail them. if u have the money for a lawyer, or can find a pro bono one (thats not too likely ) then you could make yourself a pretty penny off of it. And the major publishing houses would probably just offer a settlement, so that would be easy.

TrixieSparrow 


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Re: What is the point of copyrighting UE web sites if people keep copying your stuff?
<Reply # 9 on 8/27/2006 7:50 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by Panic!
I know many people will be thinking "if it is on the internet then it is public domain" or words to that effect. No, if it is on the Internet it is still copyright.


Dam right it is. A lot of people are too dumb to realize it. They pay for it. And I laugh at them. People should learn to not try and fuck around with copyrights if they have no knowledge of copyrights.

blackhawk 

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Re: What is the point of copyrighting UE web sites if people keep copying your stuff?
<Reply # 10 on 8/27/2006 8:03 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by Trixie_Sparrow


Dam right it is. A lot of people are too dumb to realize it. They pay for it. And I laugh at them. People should learn to not try and fuck around with copyrights if they have no knowledge of copyrights.

Some shits think the internet is the lawless wild, wild west. It isn't. Educated their soon to be sorry asses!

Contact the webmaster both email, and in writing informing them of the violations. They should pull the material. Have a good lawyer that specializes in copyrights look it over if they persist, hammer the leaches if it benefits you.

The lazy shits should get left-overs, not top shelf goodies.
[last edit 8/27/2006 8:04 PM by blackhawk - edited 1 times]

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Re: What is the point of copyrighting UE web sites if people keep copying your stuff?
<Reply # 11 on 8/27/2006 8:18 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by Tek-69
Some people are just assholes man, If you think you got a shot take legal action. Stealing your work is a shitty thing to do and you should definitely try and at least get the credit you deserve. Sometimes it's not even about the money. I wouldn't care if someone used my pics or words as long as I was credited and they asked, if they didn't I'd be just as mad as you are.


Well...accepting credit is one thing. Setting yourself to receive credit [read: attention] is another. And then there's the liability thing.

Case in point: Another UE chap and I checked out a location, took some pics, and were stunned when the place burned to the ground 24 hours later. 12 hours after that, the pics I took were featured on a local newscast concerning the fire and an impending arson investigation.

But I agree...some people are lazy assholes. Ripping someone off is easier than getting the job done yourself. At least take comfort that they stole your work, and thus validate the work's importance.

Fame is for losers. Being plagiarized is flattery.

"The truth is knowable. But probably not, ever, incontrovertible."
--Don DeLillo
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kowalski 






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Re: What is the point of copyrighting UE web sites if people keep copying your stuff?
<Reply # 12 on 8/27/2006 8:22 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by Panic
I mean how would we like it if some of Kowalski's beautiful drain shots ended up in a coffee table book and he not only never got paid for them, but was never credited with taking them?

That's a disingenous example, since it would be impossible to use the images I have published on the web in a coffeetable book. The constraints of resolution preclude it.

Then there is another UE web site which has copied who paragraphs from my web site some months ago just to argue that I am mistaken in calling a tunnel a tunnel: http://www.tcuec.com/20060110.pdf
Who are these idiots? Can't they read a copyright policy? Sure, they have a right to rebut something if they want to, but they don't have to copy my material, they can just link to it.

It's interesting how despite raising more than a half-dozen supposed examples where your work has recently been infringed upon, the only actual link you provide is to the TCUEC pdf, which as has already been noted is quite free by all standards of law and academic honesty to quote from your website at their leisure. In picking that bone, all you do is highlight their well-written critique of your standards of journalism, one that otherwise would have likely remained in obscurity outside of their local Twin Cities community.

It's fascinating to watch you use self-immolation as a technique to further your desperate periodic efforts to be noticed and recognized as a victim.
[last edit 8/27/2006 8:22 PM by kowalski - edited 1 times]

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Re: What is the point of copyrighting UE web sites if people keep copying your stuff?
<Reply # 13 on 8/27/2006 8:29 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
How dare they, I mean it's clearly your property that they have no permission or legal right to use. Such people disgust me, where is the respect for private property?

Note: If you missed my sarcasm, try rereading.

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Panic! 

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Re: What is the point of copyrighting UE web sites if people keep copying your stuff?
<Reply # 14 on 8/27/2006 8:30 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
I agree plagiarism is flattery. And I agree that I should do something about this. However this is another UE group we're talking about in all 3 cases. I don't expect these people would have much money. Besides, I just Don't want to go through another god forsaken UE war type thing. I am hoping they will remove the images after I email them tonight. If they don't well stuff it, I'll just send them a bill. I'm tired of crap like this.

Oh, and Kowalski, stop trolling mate, I'm not biting your bait. The PDF file makes the stuff that comes out of George W's mouth seem intelligent. They say stupid things like "a sewer is not a tunnel" "Three people who died last year did not die over the space of a year." and "The guy who was posting on UER about urban exploration for months was not an urban explorer. and my favourite one is "the guy we started a campaign to isolate from urban exploration was not being ostracised."

I don't object to their rebuttal as it is amusing as all hell and they have a right to write one. But I am objecting to their breach of my copyright.

[last edit 8/27/2006 8:52 PM by Panic! - edited 2 times]

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blackhawk 

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Re: What is the point of copyrighting UE web sites if people keep copying your stuff?
<Reply # 15 on 8/27/2006 8:39 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by Panic!
I agree plagerism is flattery. And I agree that I should do something about this. However this is another UE group we're talking about in all 3 cases. I don't expect these people would have much money. Besides, I just Don't want to go through another god forsaken UE war type thing. I am hoping they will remove the images after I email them tonight. If they don't well stuff it, I'll just send them a bill. I'm tired of crap like this.

Oh, and Kowalski, stop trolling mate, I'm not biting your bait. The PDF file makes the stuff that comes out of George W's mouth seem intelligent. They say stupid things like "a sewer is not a tunnel" "Three people who died last year did not die over the space of a year." and "The guy who was posting on UER about urban exploation for months was not an rban explorer. and my favorite one is "the guy we started a campaign to isolate from rban exploration was not being ostracised."

I don't onject to their rebutal as it is amusing as all hell and they have a right to write one. But I am objecting to their breach of my copyright.


Many webmasters will pull copyrighted material if you can prove so, no?

Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
yokes 


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Re: What is the point of copyrighting UE web sites if people keep copying your stuff?
<Reply # 16 on 8/27/2006 8:42 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Kowalski's point, though, is that there is no copyright violation in that pdf you linked to.

I would, though, like to see the other instances of actual copyright violations.. hit us up with some URLs.

"Great architecture has only two natural enemies: water and stupid men." - Richard Nickel
kowalski 






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Re: What is the point of copyrighting UE web sites if people keep copying your stuff?
<Reply # 17 on 8/27/2006 9:05 PM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by Panic!
I don't onject to their rebutal as it is amusing as all hell and they have a right to write one. But I am objecting to their breach of my copyright.

I can quote you in this thread without breaching your copyright, and they can quote you in their critical work without breaching your copyright. I recommend you actually learn copyright law before continuing to sound off on it.

As for the contents of their criticism, it's largely justified. As a journalist and researcher, I agree with the authors that the language you've used to characterize events in the Twin Cities is misleading. You misrepresent these events either as a result of your own inattention or in order to buttress your spectator's opinion that the Twin Cities exploration community is turbulent and divided, and that this condition restricts people's opportunities to explore the city's abandoned and subterranean structures. Either way, they were justified in calling you on it.

If your other examples of infringement are equally unflattering, it casts a quite different light on your outrage. Let's see them!
[last edit 8/27/2006 9:06 PM by kowalski - edited 1 times]

DeMiNe0 


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Re: What is the point of copyrighting UE web sites if people keep copying your stuff?
<Reply # 18 on 8/28/2006 2:27 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Ok.. In order to copyright content on a website you have to get written statements of release for the other people who contributed to it. If it's ALL your work, which in this case it is, all you need to do is slap a copyright notice.

I noticed on your website, you have a copy right notice that seems to be out dated, or just totally wrong. Which in some cases if you do end up going to court on that, they could use this against you. A copyright notice is suppost to be in this format:

Copyright (c) PUBLISHYEAR-CURRENTYEAR, NAME

So... for example if i wanted to copyright a page myself, i could add:
Copyright (c) 2006-2006, Alex Vanino (aka DeMiNe0)

I usualy use a php script to update my current year.

There are a few things you can do to help your situation. You could try going to their Hosting company. There are plenty of tools to find out who is hosting them. If they have a good abuse department, and you send a very professional sounding letter from webmaster@yoursite.com or admin@yoursite.com to them, they'll help you out. Otherwise you could also try there upstream provider, but i dout you'll get far with that.
A last resort that will also get you the furthest, but is alot of work for a few copyed pages, is going to court. There are a few reasons why you might not want to do this though.
1. It costs money
2. it takes time
3. it's a pain in the ass.
So really unless it's worth alot to you, the furthest i would do is contacting the hosting company.

If you need help making any changed to your site, feel free to contact me.

As for seeing what you can do about the other website....
From reading the link you posted to this persons website, it looks like they cited your site as a source of information. Unless this was JUST added as a result of this thread of complaining, this protects them from copyright infringement.
[last edit 8/28/2006 2:30 AM by DeMiNe0 - edited 1 times]

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andrea 


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Re: What is the point of copyrighting UE web sites if people keep copying your stuff?
<Reply # 19 on 8/28/2006 3:48 AM >
Posted on Forum: UER Forum
 
Posted by DeMiNe0
As for seeing what you can do about the other website....
From reading the link you posted to this persons website, it looks like they cited your site as a source of information. Unless this was JUST added as a result of this thread of complaining, this protects them from copyright infringement.


Yeah they cited the site and used quotes with in the text, that is not having your text stolen.

This isn't boot camp and you are not a ninja. But you sure look like an idiot in that outfit.
UER Forum > Archived UE Main > What is the point of copyrighting UE web sites if people keep copying your stuff? (Viewed 1559 times)
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