Infiltration

Burzum Noble Donor \| \|	First Aid and UE < on 5/5/2004 3:36 PM >

	An experience a friend of mine had recently involving a fairly serious cut while draining reminded me of the importance of this topic - one that too many UE people don't give enough thought too - first aid. In my opinion, exploring requires at least a minimal first aid kit, with at least basic items (bandages, disinfectant, splinting materials etc.) I know from chatting with others here that I am not alone in this opinion. But I feel that training in first aid is also critical - and the right kind of training. While the Red Cross does run exellent first aid classes, keep in mind that this is first aid for urban situations - meaning that the main focus of the training is to keep someone alive long enough for the ambulence to get there, with an assumed response time of about ten to fifteen minutes. Since the pros are assumed to be within fairly easy reach, this training actually discourages you from offering more than very basic aid. Now this is good for the everyday person - but not so good for those of us who tend to visit inaccesable areas, where calling for help or receiving outside aid is dicey at best, and impossible at worst. Which is why I would recommend either the Wilderness First Aid or the Wilderness First Responder courses, offered by private adventure and outdoors organizations around the county. The main difference with Wilderness first aid is that it is assumed that help is either not available, or so far away that you have to deal with the situation on your own, with the resources at hand. This includes valuable skills such as stabilizing neck and spine injuries, compound fracture splinting, moving the injuried to safer locations, turniquets and field wound cleaning - all stuff that you would never do in a Red Cross First Aid course. I myself am Wilderness FA trained, and have used that training an a couple of occasions where injuries took place in UE environment, where either help was not immediately available, or when calling for help could quite possibly lead to arrest - and found it invaluable. If you think about it, most of us spend a great deal of time and energy figuring out ways to avoid being caught by security, but it is probably more likely that eventually you will be injured UEing than you will be caught - and while getting caught does not often lead to serious consequences, injuries often can. Anyway, that is my two cents. Anyone who needs help finding providers in their area for this training, or would like to know more specifics on what is covered, PM me and I will help you out. www.rouskrew.com because evil won't just do itself.

Mark Very Noble Donor location: South Carolina Gender: Male What is a lion, king of the savannah, when hes at the south pole? \|	Re: First Aid and UE <Reply # 1 on 5/5/2004 4:31 PM >

	Yeah its a topic largely left alone due to the nature of lawsuits these days. Nearly everyone on my team has had some medical training. I put some info in my newbie manual due to come out... a few weeks from now. However maybe this will provide some better info. Myself: First aide cources, minor field surgery, some emt, moveing injured people Best Friend: Same minus EMT but I have showed him a lot. RedAngelkitti who posts little here: All of the above plus stiching (plastic surgen grade), exstenisve pharmasutical knowledge. (needs to bring toilet paper at all times) Trav: Basic first aide Kman: First aide all the basics well plus some emt "If the threat level goes up its probably because of me." "I am looking for a girl who enjoys headbutting beltbuckles"

Conundrum Critic�n location: GTA Gender: Male Now Entering The Bling Chamber \|	Re: First Aid and UE <Reply # 2 on 5/5/2004 4:35 PM >

	Yea, I feel if you are going to do anything where Medical treatment is not emediatly available, you should have some form of first aid, whether it be basic, or more advances, but even if you have basic, it can mean the diference between life and death. This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights. Carpe Noctem

orangeindiana Noble Donor location: Texas Gender: Male Meh. \|	Re: First Aid and UE <Reply # 3 on 5/5/2004 5:56 PM >

	Two of the most neglected parts towards insuring your safety while UEing is making sure somebody knows where you are, and having a cell phone with you (set to vibrate, of course). They seem pretty obvious but I've known plenty of people who forget them regularly, including myself at times... the best first aid training in the world won't do much good if you're in a situation where you need an ambulance and can't call one.

Mark Very Noble Donor location: South Carolina Gender: Male What is a lion, king of the savannah, when hes at the south pole? \|	Re: First Aid and UE <Reply # 4 on 5/5/2004 6:08 PM >

	Yeah thats not a option with me. Everyone I know comes with me and I cant till family not that it matters any more at my age but hey. "If the threat level goes up its probably because of me." "I am looking for a girl who enjoys headbutting beltbuckles"

Drie Rat-Hole Chic location: Hudson Valley NY Gender: Female bringing it back. \| \|	Re: First Aid and UE <Reply # 5 on 5/6/2004 1:57 AM >

	You could do what my group does...email someone else on the forum and just say where you are and when you'll be back. That way if anyone actively comes looking for you, its better than nothing. Drie - www.synestheticlight.com "In the absence of the living, there still exists a life."

redangelkitti location: Sanitarium Resident Gender: Female the event horizon \| \|	Re: First Aid and UE <Reply # 6 on 5/6/2004 2:23 AM >

	ok, i have to post, definite ditto on the toilet paper. you never know when you're out and you just gotta go, especially us girls. Anyway, when making your med kits, don't ever forget pink, pepto bismol-i recommend chewables-, especially when you're going somewhere you haven't been before, your nerves start quivering and before you know it you're sick to your stomach, Immodium AD also has chewables and a minty flavor so they're not so bad. Always take chewables, capsules take longer to work, and chewables are just as easy to carry, they also usually have less packaging and are individually wrapped for easy dosing for a group or just a couple of people. I am a black bullet.

Mochi location: West Jordan, Utah Gender: Male Stare deep into a kitty's nose. \| \|	Re: First Aid and UE <Reply # 7 on 5/7/2004 2:21 AM >

	A nice, good, portable source of basic first-aid information: The Boy Scout Handbook. Good info on all sorts of survival tactics and knowledge and whatnot. I'm currently boning up on the section on ropes and knots, myself. Anyhoot, just an idea. >_< Mochi, ill-prepared. JESUS SAVES!!! (And then he redeems his tickets for free prizes!)

Morphiend location: Ghetropolis, the Paris of the Midwest Gender: Male \| \|	Re: First Aid and UE <Reply # 8 on 5/7/2004 2:57 AM >

	I work in an emergency department and I had a patient last year who fell through the floor while scavenging metal from an abandoned building. He was on unemployment and supplementing his income by stealing shit. He broke his femur and he would've died if he didn't have a cell phone, no question. This story comes from someone who doesn't own a cell. Oh well, do as I say and not as I do.

orangeindiana

Noble Donor
location:
Texas
Gender: Male

Meh.

Re: First Aid and UE
<Reply # 9 on 5/7/2004 4:29 AM >

Posted by Mochi
A nice, good, portable source of basic first-aid information: The Boy Scout Handbook. Good info on all sorts of survival tactics and knowledge and whatnot. I'm currently boning up on the section on ropes and knots, myself. Anyhoot, just an idea.

If you're out in Utah, the stores aimed at future LDS missionaries sell decent med kits comparable to the kind you'd get at places like REI for a lot cheaper. See, Mormons are good for some things.

*Archangel6** location: Behind you...there in the shadows. Gender: Male Falco Rusticolus \|	Re: First Aid and UE <Reply # 10 on 5/7/2004 6:07 AM >

	For those seeking some training on the aforementioned wilderness first aid, you can check out the many wilderness first responder courses that are out there (just do a goolge search). I don't have any that I can personally vouch for - as I have not attended one, but NOLS has a special department just for this: http://www.nols.edu/wmi/ I have heard nothing but good things about the folks at NOLS, and this would most likely be the one that I would go to. Another option would be the course put on by the National Association for Search & Rescue: http://www.nasar.org/index.php?s=training&p=course&c=11 A couple of other options are: 1) Take a look at your local technical college. The courses for in state students are normally very inexpensive, and one could look into taking the Basic EMT I course (which is generally one quarter in length). 2) If you have a local Fire/EMT Explorer post in your area (for those UERs that are 21 or younger) you may find its a good place to gain valuable experience in first aid & search and rescue. Are there any EMTs or Paramedics on the board who can offer suggestions or advice on where to get good first aid/rescue training? "Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing, doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dreamed before." - Edgar Allan Poe

Burzum Noble Donor \| \|	Re: First Aid and UE <Reply # 11 on 5/7/2004 3:21 PM >

	I have done the NOLS training, and it is excellent - i strongly recommend it. their somewhat related organization, the Wilderness Medicine Institute also holds classes around the country, which i have also attend, and liked that one alot too. www.rouskrew.com because evil won't just do itself.

Caput_58 location: Virginia, USA Gender: Male \| \|	Re: First Aid and UE <Reply # 12 on 5/9/2004 7:10 PM >

	I took a Wilderness EMT bridge course from WEMSI which I got alot out of. Obviously, you have to be an EMT first, but thats what makes it alot cheaper than most W-EMT programs. Some states subsidize EMT training. In virginia, I became an EMT for about $65 out of pocket. The next cheapest alternative is probably community college programs. Of course, EMT training is a bit of overkill for UE purposes. Chances are you aren't going to need to know how to backboard a patient, apply a traction splint, and drop a combitube. For most people, the training the level of first aid, or perhaps first responder. Stop bleeding, splint bones, and maybe a bit of knowledge of basic woundcare for when you return to the world of soap and triple antibiotic ointments. I agree with what orangeindiana said; making sure someone will miss you if you don't return is the most important thing. Caput_58

Caenos location: Winnipeg, Mb Gender: Male \|	Re: First Aid and UE <Reply # 13 on 5/24/2004 7:20 PM >

	I was lucky enough to get good first aid and wilderness first aid training during 3 summers of free training as a Army Cadet back in the day, and I am damn glad I did. If you are prone to blisters (like me.. I get HARDCORE blisters) and you have a huge trek ahead of you, don't forget the moleskin in your first aid kit. May not be life-saving, but you'll be a HELL of alot more efficent, and happier when you don't have to favour a foot sometimes I wonder whats behind THAT door?

Freemason location: Melbourne, Australia Gender: Male Cave Clan \|	Re: First Aid and UE <Reply # 14 on 5/25/2004 5:31 AM >

	i have a level one certificate in first aid (CPR, cuts, burns, imbedded glass/metal, broken legs, concussion, etc.), but the people who teach these courses say that some of it is just second-nature to humans. when you think about it that's kinda true: if you cut yourself, immediately you know you must wash and disinfect the cut, try and stop the bleeding quickly, then cover it up (usually with some amount of pressure). first aid may not be neccessary for simple stuff like cuts, but if someone breaks their leg or gets knocked out (concussed) then you'll probably wish you knew first aid. Edit: fixed numerous spelling mistakes [last edit 5/25/2004 8:33 AM by Freemason - edited 1 times] www.caveclan.org freemason@caveclan.org

Burzum

Noble Donor

Re: First Aid and UE
<Reply # 15 on 5/25/2004 9:28 PM >

Posted by Freemason
i have a level one certificate in first aid (CPR, cuts, burns, imbedded glass/metal, broken legs, concussion, etc.), but the people who teach these courses say that some of it is just second-nature to humans.

this is true, no doubt - alot of the value in the courses comes in preparing you for the situation, keeping you and the injured from panicing. i have helped injured people on trails a few times, and it is amazing how much people will relax and listen, even if injured or anxious, as long as you are "trained in first aid".

too often, the first time that people consider whether they or others could get injured in an activity is when one of them is injured. even a small amount of training can make the difference between a constructive emergency response and running around in circles saying "oh my god oh my god".

www.rouskrew.com

because evil won't just do itself.

MaximusNT Gender: Male \|	Re: First Aid and UE <Reply # 16 on 6/2/2004 6:35 PM >

	A lot of the info I see here is US related, so I'm not sure how to "translate" it to terms up here... To be a basic EMT up here is around two years of college. And that is really just teaching you the basics to get someone to hospital in the "golden hour". Personally I'm trained to a basic EMT level, and on top of that I have my BTLS and Ski Patrol work. After 5 years being on the Patrol up here I've got the ability down-pat to keep someone alive for a day until I get them to help. Which is what leads me to my main point. Training and classes are great, but you're still going to freak the first time you have to deal with an accident. Unless you're used to it, seeing a large bone pop through the skin, or large amounts of blood spray will make you less effective than you'd like. I would suggest finding a group you can actually practice with. Find out what it's like to actually get someone who can't walk out of the woods, to actually splint a leg that looks broken. Many Vol. firefighters do this training, as does the National Ski Patrol in the US, as well as some St. John's units (not a huge fan of St. John's up here). But the best bet is to get your reactions down, so you know when it actually happens and you have to take control what you're going to do.

DurgiN location: Adelaide, Australia Gender: Male without the underground I'm like a clown without a circus \| \|	Re: First Aid and UE <Reply # 17 on 6/15/2004 9:08 AM >

	What a fantastic topic. This is something I'd never really considered until an incident with a group - we were 6 hours from the closest hospital, in a drain that lies 108 meters below the surface and a member of our group sustained a very serious cut that could very easily resulted in her bleading to death. Luckily with a few first aid trained members of our group and one more senior medically trained person who was able to administer morphine etc. this person survived the injury ... After reading through these posts I believe it is necessary to have some appropriat first aid training and am seriously going to look into this matter. My only real problem is liability, knowing that the people that I explore with aren't the sort of people who would sue me I feel confident there. But what of a family member or another third party - can anyone elaborate on what the Australian laws (but any laws will do 'cause I'm prepping myself up for some serious OS urbex) are regarding this and who has a right to take action? Right on ! DurgiN DurgiN ~ as hardcore as you are ~ http://www.addelayed.com http://www.caveclan.org/adelaide

MaximusNT Gender: Male \|	Re: First Aid and UE <Reply # 18 on 6/15/2004 9:22 PM >

	I can't speak for Australia per-se, but most countries have a "Good Samaritan" laws. Therefore, unless you have been hired to look after someone specifically you can not be sued for anything that happens while you render assistance... That's obviously a pretty thin covering of the law, but read what you've got locally and should stack up. Essentially, if you're trying to help in good conscience, then you can't be sued or held liable if you screw up... On the flip side, some countries have laws that actually compel you to provide help to a third party, and you can be found liable if you don't provide help when needed.

Burzum

Noble Donor

Re: First Aid and UE
<Reply # 19 on 6/16/2004 4:08 PM >

Posted by durgin
My only real problem is liability, knowing that the people that I explore with aren't the sort of people who would sue me I feel confident there. But what of a family member or another third party - can anyone elaborate on what the Australian laws (but any laws will do 'cause I'm prepping myself up for some serious OS urbex) are regarding this and who has a right to take action?

as far as i know, liability issues, at least for the US, mainly revolve around administration of drugs - for example, in most Wilderness Medicine courses they will tell you that if you find someone undergoing a severe allergic reaction, even if they direct you to use an EpiPen on them, you should have them grip the pen if at all possible. to the best of my knowledge, even EMTs are not supposed to administer drugs - so liability could be an issue here.

in addition, moving an unconsious or severly injured person could lead to a liabilty issue - but only if you moved them in a way that caused damage, rather than calling the paramedics. in a situation were calling the pros isn't an option, i doubt there would be liability questions.

in terms of other first aid - wound treatment, splinting etc - there is no real liability issue, at least in the US, to the best of my knowledge.

www.rouskrew.com

because evil won't just do itself.

Infiltration Forums > Archived UE Tutorials, Lessons, and Useful Info > First Aid and UE (Viewed 554 times)