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Retro_Chick
      
location:
Denver-ish
Gender: Female
Serial Trespasser
 |  | To I.D. or Not to I.D.
< on 3/21/2009 3:32 AM >
|  | | | That is the question that I always battle with as I'm getting out of my car to wander around...
If I have my I.D. I can be identified if I get caught, hurt or killed...
if I don't have my I.D. no stupid rent-a-cop can know who I am...
What's the consensus among you guys & gals with experience?
"The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me."
~Ayn Rand |
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NorthBayNobody
location:
right behind you
we never listen
| |  | Re: To I.D. or Not to I.D.
<Reply # 1 on 3/21/2009 3:56 AM >
| | | | that's a good question, i usually always bring my ID, makes dealing with the cops easier, but I guess that only works if you don't have any outstanding warrants or anything !! A lot of time I leave my wallet at home because I don't want to lose it, but I almost always bring my drivers license in my small pocket, I always wondered the same thing myself
NorCal H.E.S.H. Crew
Heathens Exploring Satan's Hideouts
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Novemberico
Baby murder
| | Re: To I.D. or Not to I.D.
<Reply # 2 on 3/21/2009 4:16 AM >
| | | | You're not legally obligated to surrender your I.D. to a security guard;
IMHO:
leave it in your vehicle. You don't need it - If the officer is an asshole, and asks you for your ID, you might as well remain silent and lawyer up.
If the officer doesn't ask you for ID, but simply questions you, cooperate and be kind. Up until that point, I wouldn't recommend any right-fu. Losing your ID sucks too.
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\/adder
  
location:
DunkarooLand
Gender: Male
I'm the worst of the best but I'm in this race.
| |  | Re: To I.D. or Not to I.D.
<Reply # 3 on 3/21/2009 5:02 AM >
| | | | I still have my "Class of 07" student ID. If I have to surrender my ID to anybody; they're not getting my drivers license, that's for sure.
and every CT state college with freshmen housing demands my photo ID...
"No risk, no reward, no fun."
"Go all the way or walk away"
escensi omnis... |
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MidnightRaven
location:
Montreal / Eastern Townships
Gender: Female
Urbain Artist
| | | Re: To I.D. or Not to I.D.
<Reply # 4 on 3/21/2009 5:15 AM >
| | | | yea i battle with the same question too ... my point of view is what if i get hurt and need my medicare card o.0
Nevermore |
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desertchick
location:
Eastern Twnshps, QC - Montreal, QC - Phoenix, AZ
Gender: Female
| | | Re: To I.D. or Not to I.D.
<Reply # 5 on 3/21/2009 4:08 PM >
| | | | I always have my I.D. on me. Trust me, if you get caught by some cops, you better have something to hand them real quick. Unless you have a record, your I.D. will often be your ticket to "innocence". If you don't want to give your I.D. to some security guard, just pretend you don't have it!
Plus, some of my exploring partners don't even know my last name or my addy. So if I ever get seriously injured they just have to check out my wallet and get me to the closest hospital using my medicare card. Plus, you never know, you might emerge from some drain really hungry and find the best restaurant just around the corner (it happened to me before).  To avoid loosing your wallet, put it somewhere in a closed pocket where you don't have anything else you might look for during an exploration. Just my 2 cents.
flickr.com/photos/desertchick-/sets
"The only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn, like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars [...] and everybody goes Aw!" - Kerouac |
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junkyard
location:
LaCrosse, WI
Gender: Male
Strategic Beer Command where the metal hits the meat.
| | | Re: To I.D. or Not to I.D.
<Reply # 6 on 3/21/2009 5:19 PM >
| | | | Bad idea not to carry an ID. Makes you look suspicious, or more so. Don't plan on getting caught, it doesn't happen very often anyway. And it is easier than you may think to talk your way out of it. Also, it's a pink who cares ticket if caught in most places, because the door was open when you got there. And you're not a thief.
[last edit 3/21/2009 5:19 PM by junkyard - edited 1 times]
I drink gasoline for breakfeast and beer for dinner!
Any problem can be licked with a case of beer and a few sticks of dynamite.
Strategic Beer Command ruling the desert since 1995 http://www.strategic-beer-command.com |
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PhotoSeeker
location:
Sudbury
Gender: Male
MikeOnline
| | | Re: To I.D. or Not to I.D.
<Reply # 7 on 3/21/2009 5:36 PM >
| | | | I'm going to approach it from the angle of Canadian law. The prime part of this discussion comes down to the fact that, in Canada, the burden of proof of identification rests with the Crown. This, coupled with you having the right not to incriminate yourself, gives you the right not to provide any identification to the police, or anyone else.
That being said, the question you need to ask yourself is, what do you have to hide, vs. what do you have to gain?
You already have the right not to provide ID to security. There's nothing they can do about that.
You already have the right not to provide ID to the police, but they will hold you until they ID you independently, and rest assured, they will take their time about it. In essence, this means that not providing ID to the police will really only needlessly prolong things. If you have something to hide, they're going to hold you until they find out anyway. If you don't, you've wasted a lot of time.
So, my advice is bring ID. Refuse to show it to security if you choose, but at least you have it to show police if / when they show up.
Lots of Urban Exploration goodness at https://urbexobsession.com |
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Orogeny
location:
39 degrees 44 minutes N, 104 degrees 59 minutes W
Raping people in drains since the summer of '07...
| | Re: To I.D. or Not to I.D.
<Reply # 8 on 3/21/2009 5:37 PM >
| | | | I completely agree with junkyard and desertchick. They summed it up best. I always carry I.D. And for once I'm glad I don't have a driver's license because if I lose my state I.D., it only costs me $7 instead of $15 to replace it!
Subduction leads to orogeny. Duh. |
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Intrinsic
location:
Collingwood
Gender: Male
| | Re: To I.D. or Not to I.D.
<Reply # 9 on 3/21/2009 5:53 PM >
| | | | I'm reminded of a night out of drinking with a friend. He decided to call out something to the effect of "fucking pigs" when a police SUV drove by. To my shock (although not that surprising) they stopped, rolled down the window and asked, "What did you say?".
My friend just stood there, motionless. Knowing he is one to talk and not walk the walk, I said to him, "well... do something", wanting to see what would happen.
Anyway they proceed to pull over to the side of the road and I'm shitting right about now. I then realize by their grey uniforms that they are the tactical unit. Ouch!
Immediately we are both asked for our ID, which I presented without question. The officer took both our ID's and then radio'ed into the communications centre. He didn't do anything with my ID, not even look at it.
I believe this was to determine if I had ID, but also if I was going to be as beligerent as my companion.
They ran him, he came up negative, although I did hear one officer say, "I want this guy" and NOT in the sexual manner. Another said to him, "We have a nice cold bed for you sleep in tonight."
After that note of caution, I told them I was driving him home (I drink one beer per hour and stop at three if driving) and they let us go.
Had he not had ID, we would likely have been taken downtown and held until identification could be determined. The ID also helped because it allowed them to see that he had no warrants.
If you're in Ontario, you'll often hear something like:
Officer: "Could I get a 10-28, 10-29 on a John Doe" where John Doe is your name of course.
10-28 would be a check of the vehicle, 10-29 would be a criminal records check.
In this case, and hopefully in your case, it would come back as "10-60" which means you are not wanted.
If you hear the officer say anything about a 10-92, that means he may be taking you into custody (eg. "Sierra1 will be 10-6 with a 10-92")
As of this month though, all of this can be done via laptop so listening to radio traffic is less likely to give you an idea of if you're heading to jail or not
As Photoseeker mentioned, always present ID to a Canadian officer. You are not obligated to speak to him/her (in fact you can literally not say a word if you so desire) but you must identify yourself to him/her.
[last edit 3/21/2009 5:54 PM by Intrinsic - edited 1 times]
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CanadianRhian
location:
Centennial, Colorado
Gender: Male
Cats don't make good UE partners!
| | | Re: To I.D. or Not to I.D.
<Reply # 10 on 3/21/2009 6:40 PM >
| | | | Uh, this is truly a stupid question. Here's some points as to why that is -
First - it's Colorado state law to carry identification at all times
Second - a cop doesn't need your id to find out who you are, they'll ask you several questions and then they call it into dispatch. If you lie they figure out that pretty quickly then you're really screwed. Lawyering up at that point pretty much means you want to go to jail and they'll gladly help you out.
Third - a security guard can't take your liscence (that's theft) and they can't detain you. They have to call the police.
Any time I've been caught somewhere I gladly tell them who I am and what I'm doing. A cop gave me a tresspassing ticket once and I mailed in the fine that's it. As long as you don't break anything or take anything you're alright.
So, if you leave your ID because you don't want to lose it that understandable - I once lost my car keys and it wasn't like I was going back to look for it. Not carrying your ID because you're worried about someone finding out who you are is stupid. They will figure out who you are if they want to.
RSE
Canadian Rhian
Centennial, CO |
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\/adder
location:
DunkarooLand
Gender: Male
I'm the worst of the best but I'm in this race.
| | | Re: To I.D. or Not to I.D.
<Reply # 11 on 3/21/2009 6:52 PM >
| | | | Posted by CanadianRhian
First - it's Colorado state law to carry identification at all times
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Just out of curiosity where is that statute?
I google searched and only got Concealed Carry Permit info.
"No risk, no reward, no fun."
"Go all the way or walk away"
escensi omnis... |
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CanadianRhian
location:
Centennial, Colorado
Gender: Male
Cats don't make good UE partners!
| | | Re: To I.D. or Not to I.D.
<Reply # 12 on 3/21/2009 8:23 PM >
| | | | Not really sure where it is - I might be completely wrong but at my job I work with LOTS of cops and whenever someone tries to say they don't have their ID the cops always inform them that it's Colorado state law. I know that is also a fact in a bar and such, even if you're 90 and on your Hoveround you technically can't consume booze if you can't varify your age. That's what I know, call your local cop house and see if it's for real. The law technically could be that you have to have an ID (in the system) but not on your person.
RSE
Canadian Rhian
Centennial, CO |
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digital_me
location:
Colorado
Gender: Male
When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro
| | | Re: To I.D. or Not to I.D.
<Reply # 13 on 3/21/2009 8:50 PM >
| | | | I just went through the CRS and I can't find anything. The only thing is that one has to have ID when operating a motor vehicle. Beyond that the only thing one must do is adequately identify oneself (which may be verbal, i.e. "My name is John Doe").
My opinion is that if I am trespassing and am caught by the police, then I am legally (whether or not I am morally in the wrong doesn't really enter into it at this point) in the wrong. If the police find me in a drain (which they have, twice), then I will give them my ID. Both times this has happened I have gotten off lightly (a verbal warning the first time, a ticket not for trespassing (with a $75 fine) the second time.) Now, if I am walking down the street, committing no crime, and am stopped and asked for ID, there's an entirely different situation. But that's not what this is about.
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insainly sound
location:
Bay Area, CA
Gender: Female
How'd we get here, and how are we getting out of here?!
| | | Re: To I.D. or Not to I.D.
<Reply # 14 on 3/22/2009 1:59 AM >
| | | | Posted by digital_me
I just went through the CRS and I can't find anything. The only thing is that one has to have ID when operating a motor vehicle. Beyond that the only thing one must do is adequately identify oneself (which may be verbal, i.e. "My name is John Doe").
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Though not in law (decided by a number of court cases), this is exactly what is required. However, they will still ask. It is generally easier to provide them with the ID rather than risk a lengthier procedure to verify your ID.
Post by Intrinsic
I'm reminded of a night out of drinking with a friend. He decided to call out something to the effect of "fucking pigs" when a police SUV drove by. To my shock (although not that surprising) they stopped, rolled down the window and asked, "What did you say?". |
In the US, there would be no reason for the cops to detain you, if they get out, ask you your name, if one were to properly identify themselves, it's then your right to walk away. They have no reason to detain you (1st Amendment), nor does it qualify as a court recognized reason for detention...
Check out my photo blog! |
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Cheddar
location:
Tucson, AZ
Gender: Male
| | Re: To I.D. or Not to I.D.
<Reply # 15 on 3/22/2009 5:23 AM >
| | | | Not to get off topic, but....
Posted by insainly sound... They have no reason to detain you (1st Amendment), nor does it qualify as a court recognized reason for detention...
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Huh?
Ye Olde First Amendment...
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
Stop plate tectonics! |
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\/adder
location:
DunkarooLand
Gender: Male
I'm the worst of the best but I'm in this race.
| | | Re: To I.D. or Not to I.D.
<Reply # 16 on 3/22/2009 6:51 AM >
| | | | Posted by CanadianRhian
I might be completely wrong but at my job I work with LOTS of cops and whenever someone tries to say they don't have their ID the cops always inform them that it's Colorado state law. I know that is also a fact in a bar and such.
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Ok. There is no legal obligation for you to carry ID on your person anywhere.
If you are not driving; you don't need to carry a license. If you are not leaving the country you do not need to carry a passport. If I take public transport and didn't want to carry an ID; I wouldn't be required to.
The cops are just giving your customers a line of shit. There is also no law saying you can't be in a bar without an ID. You can't drink and/or be served alcohol without proof of age.
I was going to make a 1984 reference but I'll refrain.
"No risk, no reward, no fun."
"Go all the way or walk away"
escensi omnis... |
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TrixieSparrow
location:
Hamilton, ON
Gender: Female
I guess.
| | Re: To I.D. or Not to I.D.
<Reply # 17 on 3/22/2009 7:16 AM >
| | | | No id can mean a nice trip downtown. And rent a cops can't legally search you unless you be rollin up in their club yo.
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imprezawrxsti
location:
Portland, OR
Gender: Male
nothing is true; everything is permitted
| | | Re: To I.D. or Not to I.D.
<Reply # 18 on 3/22/2009 7:37 PM >
| | | | mods: maybe move this to the rookies forum?
but on topic, i always have ID. it's just suspicious to not do so. i also have press ID on me all the time, that's gotten me out of a few jams.
do you know how to waltz? |
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imprezawrxsti
location:
Portland, OR
Gender: Male
nothing is true; everything is permitted
| | | Re: To I.D. or Not to I.D.
<Reply # 19 on 3/22/2009 7:45 PM >
| | | | Posted by insainly sound
In the US, there would be no reason for the cops to detain you, if they get out, ask you your name, if one were to properly identify themselves, it's then your right to walk away. They have no reason to detain you (1st Amendment), nor does it qualify as a court recognized reason for detention...
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No, but cops don't care about that. If you mouth off to a cop, expect reprisal. They WILL find something to write you up for. Maybe even arrest you under 'obstructing an officer of the law' or some bullshit like that, then let you sit in a cell for a few days and eventually let you off.
Don't be stupid and mouth off to cops. They ARE the law. Be cooperative. The key is to make the cops realize they have better things to do that write up a couple of nonthreatening people taking pictures in an abandoned building. But if you don't give them ID, refuse to cooperate, and start spouting shit about how you don't have to have ID because of the Constitution, you best believe you're going downtown.
Just my .02. I had a lot of experiences with cops during DNC.
do you know how to waltz? |
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