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Archangel*6
location:
Behind you...there in the shadows.
Gender: Male
Falco Rusticolus
 |  | Team communication - when silence counts.
< on 2/17/2004 8:16 PM >
|  | | | Question for the group.
How many of you use radios or other communication devices during an exploration?
There would only be a need (as far as I can see) if you were splitting up into smaller groups or communicating with your ride and/or lookout...but when these situations arise, what do you use?
I know that the ever expanding line of FRS radios are very popular, but anything that would be small, rugged, equipped with an earpiece/mike jack, along with the ability to "beep" your team mates (so you don't have to talk) would work well. What other options do folks utilize?
Finally, what are your thoughts on this little product:
http://spygear.net/spyflash.php?toyid=10019
I have searched through the forums and I know that the "night vision" that this company sells has been found lacking (but for 15 bucks what did you expect?). I can see where this would be useful if it was housed in a more rugged case, and if one was to experiment with amplifying the signal...but only in cases where you are exploring large locations in multiple groups, and maybe you want a little more privacy (or security?) than an FRS radio can provide (how many people would be decoding this signal vs. maybe picking you up on FRS), and you want to be as silent as possible. I'm not one to buy a cool looking product because it is cool, but only if it will help solve a problem. Those of you who have done sites where you had to fade into the shadows to explore, what would you say based on your experiences?
Thoughts? Suggestions? Comments?
"Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing, doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dreamed before."
- Edgar Allan Poe |
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MacGyver
location:
St Paul, Minnesota
Gender: Male
"Someone go find me a paperclip, a D-cell battery, and a cheese grater"
| | Re: Team communication - when silence counts.
<Reply # 1 on 2/17/2004 8:32 PM >
| | | | normal FRS radios with headsets or even just earpieces work very well for staying in touch discreetly. I don't have much need for this kind of comm though. Most of the time if I'm using FRS radios it's to talk amongst a small caravan of explorers while on the road to some place.
While exploring, I usually only need the occasional silent hand gesture ("stop" "back up" "shush" "go over there" etc). When doing an active infiltration with another person, I have found the expressiveness of the eyes to be invaluable. With a twitch of the head or eyebrows and the right look on the eyes, you can convey a lot of information to a person without others around you catching on (unless they're really watching you closely).
Like a fiend with his dope / a drunkard his wine / a man will have lust for the lure of the mine
"If you are not part of the solution, you are not dissolved in the solvent." |
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Shane
Moderator
location:
Bronx, NY
Gender: Male
| |  |  |  |  | Re: Team communication - when silence counts.
<Reply # 2 on 2/17/2004 11:13 PM >
| | | | We use FRS radios on occasion when we need to post a lookout or split up. We used them in one situation where we had to go over a VERY visible fence. We split up into groups of 2 and used the radios so that we could time our fence scaling with a red light on the nearest intersection to minimize the chances of being seen.
While those text things seem kinda cool, they seem like they would be totally impractical. About the only situation I could see them as being usefull is if you were in a very small building, or hiding in the bushes from security, and needed to convey a complex message to someone else nearby silently. The limited range and time required to type messages would probably make them virtually useless in the context of most UE.
"Because there's no possibility of real disaster, real risk, we're left with no chance for real salvation. Real elation. Real excitement. Joy. Discovery. Invention. The laws that keep us safe, these same laws condemn us to boredom. Without access to true chaos, we'll never have true peace. Unless everything can get worse, it won't get any better." -Chuck Palahniuk |
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Chikote
This member has been banned
I R NO SPEL RITE
| | Re: Team communication - when silence counts.
<Reply # 3 on 2/18/2004 12:03 AM >
|  | | | I use UHF, and headphone+mikeboom headsets when I don't want the whole world to hear what is being said.
FRS/PMR is all good until you get to a 10 - 20 storie building, or a large site with alot of buildings.
UHF is especially useful in bunkers, and tunnels, as it is very efficient with penetrating thick walls.
Dear Chasey Lain, I wrote to explain, I'm your biggest fan, I just wanted to ask; Could I eat your ass? Write back as soon as you can. |
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Drie
 
Rat-Hole Chic
location:
Hudson Valley NY
Gender: Female
bringing it back.
| | | Re: Team communication - when silence counts.
<Reply # 4 on 2/18/2004 1:04 AM >
| | | | One person that I go with and I whistle. A particular whistle. Works very well.
Drie - www.synestheticlight.com
"In the absence of the living, there still exists a life." |
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MacGyver
location:
St Paul, Minnesota
Gender: Male
"Someone go find me a paperclip, a D-cell battery, and a cheese grater"
| | Re: Team communication - when silence counts.
<Reply # 5 on 2/18/2004 1:23 PM >
| | | | Posted by Chikote
UHF is especially useful in bunkers, and tunnels, as it is very efficient with penetrating thick walls.
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umm, Ben can we have your opinion on this? I thought the only thing that can make it through lots of earth or water is ultra-low frequency radio waves.
Like a fiend with his dope / a drunkard his wine / a man will have lust for the lure of the mine
"If you are not part of the solution, you are not dissolved in the solvent." |
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Chikote
This member has been banned
I R NO SPEL RITE
| | Re: Team communication - when silence counts.
<Reply # 6 on 2/18/2004 2:47 PM >
| | | | Posted by Krazy
umm, Ben can we have your opinion on this? I thought the only thing that can make it through lots of earth or water is ultra-low frequency radio waves.
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Well, I assume that based on experience in comparison to PMR/FRS. While an FRS radio can go through maybe 2 or 3 stories of a building, a UHF radio can do 20. I have personally used them in basements that have buildings above, and managed to contact my friend, who was 500 meters away, with some 12 buildings, and a shitload of trees in between me and him. FRS would just break up in a situation like that, but on my UHF the signal was still unbroken and very clear.
Dear Chasey Lain, I wrote to explain, I'm your biggest fan, I just wanted to ask; Could I eat your ass? Write back as soon as you can. |
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chud111
location:
reading, uk
Gender: Male
| | Re: Team communication - when silence counts.
<Reply # 7 on 2/18/2004 9:12 PM >
|  | | | Hello, this is my first post. I think that UHF waves do not go through objects but are diffracted around them. They go where other frequencies cannot because the wavelength is smaller than the gaps it is going through.
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aGlock4u
 
location:
North Carolina
Gender: Male
Urbexing North Carolina
| |  | | | Re: Team communication - when silence counts.
<Reply # 8 on 2/23/2004 11:15 PM >
| | | | FRS is good for some things, but if it's security that you want, FRS is not for you. Almost everybody has an FRS radio now, and it's not hard for someone to listen in, including Law Enforcement. The 38 "Privacy Codes" only work if the listening person also has privacy codes anabled. If you are on code 35, and everyone else has codes turned off, they will all hear you if they are within range. Also anyone with a Scanner (Again, including Law Enforcement) can also listen in. FRS Radios are in fact UHF on 462 and 467 MHz, they are just low power and limited to 1/2 watt of transmit power, hence only a 2 mile range at best. Trees, Buildings, Electrical Wires, and almost anything can decrease the range, especially in buildings. UHF is the better choice for working inside buildings and opposed to VHF.
I personally use a Motorola Saber III UHF, which is rated at 5 watts of output power. I also use a Speaker Mic and an Earphone when I want to keep quiet. It is programmed with many UHF Frequencies, including FRS, GMRS, UHF Business, and local Police, and it scans through all of them.
Having a scanner on the local police dispatch frequency is very helpful, as it will let you know when an officer is dispatched to your location, or when they check out on scene because they have spotted something suspicious. Officers must let the dispatcher know where they are so that if they go missing, the PD knows where to start looking for them. Being caught with a scanner while committing a crime will add more charges if you are caught and do get arrested.
Jake
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Viper
location:
Vancouver, BC Canada
Gender: Male
Trespassing On!
| | | Re: Team communication - when silence counts.
<Reply # 9 on 2/25/2004 10:12 AM >
| | | | I think that "typewriter communicator" would be more of a novelty than an efficient way to communicate. It does look cool but those cheap spy toys seem to have a service life of about a week. Plus by the time someone finishes typing the messages you could be sitting in the back of a police cruiser. I think an FRS with a mic would be a better option. And how many families actually use these Family Radio Service's anyway?
Earth, the world's most dangerous planet!
"The will to do, the soul to dare." -Sir Walter Scott |
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Shane
Moderator
location:
Bronx, NY
Gender: Male
| | | | | | Re: Team communication - when silence counts.
<Reply # 10 on 2/25/2004 3:12 PM >
| | | | If you are really worried about silence, an FRS radio combined with this would probably do the trick:
http://www.store.yahoo.com/opsgear/thmicf2frsan.html
It's pretty cheap and it seems that it works reasonably well. I haven't used it myself yet, but it's one of the more popular items they sell.
"Because there's no possibility of real disaster, real risk, we're left with no chance for real salvation. Real elation. Real excitement. Joy. Discovery. Invention. The laws that keep us safe, these same laws condemn us to boredom. Without access to true chaos, we'll never have true peace. Unless everything can get worse, it won't get any better." -Chuck Palahniuk |
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Chikote
This member has been banned
I R NO SPEL RITE
| | Re: Team communication - when silence counts.
<Reply # 11 on 2/25/2004 10:19 PM >
| | | | Posted by Shane
If you are really worried about silence, an FRS radio combined with this would probably do the trick:
http://www.store.yahoo.com/opsgear/thmicf2frsan.html
It's pretty cheap and it seems that it works reasonably well. I haven't used it myself yet, but it's one of the more popular items they sell.
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Depends on whether you can tolerate a throat microphone. I personally hate them, and stick to stereo headphones with a boom mic.
Dear Chasey Lain, I wrote to explain, I'm your biggest fan, I just wanted to ask; Could I eat your ass? Write back as soon as you can. |
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MacGyver
location:
St Paul, Minnesota
Gender: Male
"Someone go find me a paperclip, a D-cell battery, and a cheese grater"
| | Re: Team communication - when silence counts.
<Reply # 12 on 2/26/2004 2:30 PM >
| | | | Posted by Chikote
Depends on whether you can tolerate a throat microphone. I personally hate them, and stick to stereo headphones with a boom mic. |
Which are excellent for playing computer games, but this thread topic implies extra silence and stealth.
I do like to have my radio comm on stereo phones though. It's much more understandable that way.
i'm kidding with that last one
Like a fiend with his dope / a drunkard his wine / a man will have lust for the lure of the mine
"If you are not part of the solution, you are not dissolved in the solvent." |
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Archangel*6
location:
Behind you...there in the shadows.
Gender: Male
Falco Rusticolus
| | Re: Team communication - when silence counts.
<Reply # 13 on 2/26/2004 4:22 PM >
| | | | Thanks to everyone for their input on this. After looking at these a bit closer, and actually playing out some scenarios in my head, I find that I have to agree with Viper - it would take way too long to type anything for them to be effective.
"Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing, doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dreamed before."
- Edgar Allan Poe |
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Chikote
This member has been banned
I R NO SPEL RITE
| | Re: Team communication - when silence counts.
<Reply # 14 on 2/26/2004 5:29 PM >
| | | | Posted by Krazy
Which are excellent for playing computer games, but this thread topic implies extra silence and stealth.
I do like to have my radio comm on stereo phones though. It's much more understandable that way.
i'm kidding with that last one
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I don't see how a boom mic is so different to a throat mic. They both pick up sound, the only difference is that one is against your throat, and the other is in front of your mouth. You still have to speak into it, so it's no more stealthy or silent than any other type of mic out there.
I personally find having something pressing against my throat uncomfortable.
Dear Chasey Lain, I wrote to explain, I'm your biggest fan, I just wanted to ask; Could I eat your ass? Write back as soon as you can. |
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Crossfire
location:
Kay-Dub
Gender: Male
Don't call it a comeback, I've been here for years.
| | | | | Re: Team communication - when silence counts.
<Reply # 15 on 2/26/2004 6:11 PM >
| | | | Here's a legit question...
I have to Cobra FRS radios. I don't have them with me right now, but they're simple 14-channel radios with a single plug (not dual plugs like other Cobras) for a combination microphone/headphone. I hate earbud mics, I don't like the idea of a loose wire hanging down in front of my face while I explore. What I want is a single headphone and boom-mic set up.
Does anyone know what manufacturer and model of boom-mic will fit for my FRS radio? The guys at Radio Shack say anything should work, but I haven't found one yet. Most just make the radio begin transmitting continuously as soon as they're plugged in.
C.
Disgruntled. |
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Shane
Moderator
location:
Bronx, NY
Gender: Male
| | | | | | Re: Team communication - when silence counts.
<Reply # 16 on 2/26/2004 8:00 PM >
| | | | Posted by Chikote
I don't see how a boom mic is so different to a throat mic. They both pick up sound, the only difference is that one is against your throat, and the other is in front of your mouth. You still have to speak into it, so it's no more stealthy or silent than any other type of mic out there.
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Actually Chikote, if you had read the link, or actually knew anything about throat mics before posting your unfounded opinions, you would know there is a significant difference between the two. Throat mics do not pick up the sound of the wind coming out of your mouth, they pick up the vibrations directly from your throat, you don't need to speak into them. In fact, throat mics can generally pick up whispers that a normal mic would not get very clearly and are much less noisy overall than a boom mic. I figured an experienced sniper like yourself would know about this sort of thing, they are used by the military and other law enforcement agencies for the reasons I listed above.
*edited for grammar*
[last edit 2/26/2004 8:01 PM by Shane - edited 1 times]
"Because there's no possibility of real disaster, real risk, we're left with no chance for real salvation. Real elation. Real excitement. Joy. Discovery. Invention. The laws that keep us safe, these same laws condemn us to boredom. Without access to true chaos, we'll never have true peace. Unless everything can get worse, it won't get any better." -Chuck Palahniuk |
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Mark
Very Noble Donor
location:
South Carolina
Gender: Male
What is a lion, king of the savannah, when hes at the south pole?
| | Re: Team communication - when silence counts.
<Reply # 17 on 2/26/2004 10:34 PM >
| | | | There are many great boom mics. It depends on your ear. However the best mics usually require you to get adaptors. I own LOTS!!! of adaptors.
"If the threat level goes up its probably because of me." "I am looking for a girl who enjoys headbutting beltbuckles" |
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darnay
Nobler Donor
Gender: Male
| | Re: Team communication - when silence counts.
<Reply # 18 on 2/26/2004 11:07 PM >
| | | | If all you need to do is notify someone, why not a text message or a call via a cell, with the ringer either extremely low or set to vibrate? Of course, one can't deny the charm of a radio.
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DarkTreader
Gender: Male
| | Re: Team communication - when silence counts.
<Reply # 19 on 2/27/2004 12:30 AM >
| | | | Situation: Lookout is outside of a site, the 5-0 rolls up doing a patrol and sees a board that was unbolted frmo a door, or a door that the wind caught and sees lights flashing inside.
Lookout needs to get a quick message to the group - the group has no cell phone signal where they are. The cops are a bit too close to the lookout for him to just ping them on his radio, or talk normally - hence the throat mic. You can basically gurgle your words and they'll hear them clearly with the radios.
Now, whether the group would get the signal or not is another story, but...
Losers go home... winners go home and fuck the prom queen |
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