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rceee
 |  | Question about bird feces/etc
< on 4/2/2008 12:32 AM >
|  | | | So, this past weekend, I went UE'ing for my second time. I went with a pro who's done quite a bit of exploring in this area (Pacific Northwest). One of the sites we went to was an abandoned grain silo with multiple silos. We were there for maybe two and a half hours doing photography. I wore a dust mask going in, took it off for a little while (maybe 30-45 minutes), then wore it the remainder of the time.
That was about three or four days ago. It occurred to me today that there was a lot of feces in the place, presumably from pigeons and maybe rats. It did not smell, so I assume it was pretty old. The place was a bit damp and cold so there did not seem to be a lot of visible dust in the air, but I'm sure that doesn't necessarily mean anything. I've felt okay since that day, but started to get paranoid about it today after doing some reading on the subject.
Usually I use my head a little better about things like that, but I think I was caught up in the excitement of being on my first "real" UE outing and having seen several rather spectacular exploration sites that day.
Anyone know if I should be worried? The person who was my guide has been to the same site, and many others, and seems to have had no problems, so that is a good sign, but I'm not sure if it's necessarily a sure sign.
Any helpful insights would be appreciated here. Thanks,
r
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Sestet
 
location:
Hyde Park, New York
Gender: Female
A long time ago, I saw a child playing with a tangerine, the size of a tangerine.
| | Re: Question about bird feces/etc
<Reply # 1 on 4/2/2008 1:15 AM >
| | | | Hantavirus is always a concern in places that are littered with the excrement of tiny scurrying vermin, and the easiest and most common way to contract it is indeed breathing in particles in the air that waft up from rat urine, etc. I'm not a doctor (and I'm not sure anyone here is, you may want to see a real one ASAP), but I do know that like most similar diseases Hantavirus has an incubation period of about 2-4 weeks; so if you're sick, you probably won't know it before two weeks has passed. It also means that if you make it past a month with no serious symptoms, you should be fine. The CDC lists these as common symptoms:
Onset symptoms include fever, chills, malaise, headaches, nausea, abdominal and back pain, respiratory problems (such as the ones common with influenza; mainly coughing), as well as gastrointestinal problems. These symptoms normally occur for 3-7 days, 2-4 weeks after initial infection.
If any of these manifest themselves after a week or two, definitely get yourself to a doctor, and I would suggest you do that now just to make sure; the symptom that follows this period is listed as "renal failure," and I'm sure you don't want to find out what that's like. Hanta is more common in the Pacific south, but apparently has been reported in places like Oregon and Washington in considerably numbers.
Oh, I'm sick of doing Japanese things. In jail they made us be in this dumb Kabuki play about the Forty Seven Ronin, and I wanted to be Oshi, but they made me Ori! |
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fiftyone_eggs
location:
jerzey
Gender: Male
| |  | Re: Question about bird feces/etc
<Reply # 2 on 4/2/2008 3:32 AM >
| | | | i kick up old feces on a regular basis and it hasn't affected me yet *cough*. seriously, i have heard of the hanta stuff out west but not so much in the east where the humidity keeps the dust particles down. chill out. you're probably fine.
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Uncle Goose
 
location:
Ghent, Belgium
Gender: Male
The Goose knows best.
| | | Re: Question about bird feces/etc
<Reply # 3 on 4/2/2008 8:52 AM >
| | | | You can also get Histoplasmosis from pigeon shit, it's a lung disease that may be fatal if not threated in time. Here's a link with explanation:
http://www.cdc.gov...oplasmosis_gi.html
A 1000 days of sorrow can disapear in a split second, it takes only one person to make it happen. |
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Furious D
   
location:
Northern Ontario
Gender: Male
The Night Time is the Right Time
| | Re: Question about bird feces/etc
<Reply # 4 on 4/5/2008 9:46 PM >
| | | | Be careful around pidgeon, and other shit for that matter. The only time around feces that you are safe is if they are frozen solid or there is a fresh breeze keeping the air clean. Otherwise, stagnant air around shit can be pretty harmful. I'd keep the mask on, and make sure you wash-up after you explore.
"The time of getting fame for your name on its own is over. Artwork that is only about wanting to be famous will never make you famous. Fame is a by-product of doing something else. You don't go to a restaurant and order a meal because you want to have a shit."
-Banksy
The work of FuriousD: https://www.flickr...photos/opdendries/ |
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Narcosynthesis
location:
Aberdeen, Scotland
Gender: Male
| | Re: Question about bird feces/etc
<Reply # 5 on 4/8/2008 7:51 PM >
| | | | I would be careful, but don't go overboard with the paranoia and worry... Unless somewhere is coated in crap and you are kicking up dust and god knows what else I wouldn't be too worried.
Yes you could catch something, but the chances are pretty slim - damp and clear conditions should mean that the majority of the particles will be damped down, I would worry more on the dry dusty days with particles floating about.
Common sense should keep you fairly safe - don't go kicking up muck or getting too close when it is concentrated, and wear the mask for the bad bits, the rest of the time you should be fine.
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Jeff!
location:
Boston, MA
Gender: Male
| | Re: Question about bird feces/etc
<Reply # 6 on 4/10/2008 1:14 PM >
| | | | i walk through poo all the time and i'm still breathing 
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joeyofnepal
location:
Memphis
Gender: Male
| |  | | Re: Question about bird feces/etc
<Reply # 7 on 4/27/2008 7:40 AM >
| | | | Taking micro was useful!
You could be at risk for histoplasmosis, which is an infection of the lungs with a fungus that grows in bird feces.
The main symptoms are what would occur with most respiratory infections.
My friends' dad somehow got it after Katrina, working in NOLA, and the treatment lasted for months after his diagnosis.
There is hopeful symbolism in the fact that flags do not wave in a vacuum. -Arthur C. Clarke |
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Sand
location:
Pac South
Everything interesting is always behind a fence.
| | Re: Question about bird feces/etc
<Reply # 8 on 5/3/2008 8:34 PM >
| | | | You're fine. But yeah, you can get things from bird feces. Dust mask isn't going to help that, maybe a tiny bit, but a real mask would be best.
Things you can get....histoplasmosis, Cryptococcosis, Psittacosis.
Cryptococcosis is from breathing in dust....histo is also airborne but lives in soil that is enriched for years by bird droppings, and Psittacosis can be contracted from feathers and droppings.
All of which are rare but if you're really concerned, you need a real mask...here are some stories about people with illnesses. Also found on: http://icwdm.org/d...gs.asp#CHAPTER%202
a. Cryptococcosis in a Farm Mechanic. A farm mechanic worked on machinery in a grain-drying building where live pigeons were present. The mechanic developed cryptococcal meningitis and was hospitalized for 8 weeks. The pigeon droppings from the grain-drying building were found to have 24.4 x lO6 colony-forming units per gram. Eventually he recovered fully.
b. Cryptococcosis Misdiagnosis. Failure to diagnose cryptococcosis can result in fatalities. A 46-year-old man developed a chronic neurologic syndrome after dismantling a steeple. He was treated for tuberculous meningitis and the symptoms went into remission (as they may do for a disseminated infection). One year later he was hospitalized with chronic inflammation of the brain and diagnosed as having cryptococcal meningitis. Treatment at that time with amphotericin B and flucytosine was unsuccessful.
c. Histoplasmosis Outbreak at an Arkansas Courthouse. Pigeon droppings had accumulated to a depth of one foot on the catwalk around an Arkansas courthouse tower. Cleanup workers shoveled the dry droppings off the catwalk, allowing them to fall four stories to the ground. Air conditioners picked up the falling spore-laden dust and distributed it within the building. Of the 84 employees inside, 52 percent developed fever, cough, chest pain, myalgia, and/or laboratory evidence of histoplasmosis. Twenty-four other cases of histoplasmosis occurred among construction workers and people who visited the courthouse during the cleanup; one individual contracted the disease after visiting for only 10 minutes. Of those exposed who escaped illness, 87.5 percent had been previously infected. However, five people with evidence of previous infection did become ill. It is probable that their previous infection afforded only partial immunity.
d. Histoplasmosis Outbreak Due to Disturbing a Bird Roost. The potential for histoplasmosis to disseminate downwind is clearly illustrated by an outbreak that occurred in Iowa when the dry soil under a starling roost was bulldozed. People up to one mile away contracted histoplasmosis and the bulldozer operator died after a 7-week illness.
L
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ltsOkay
location:
Brampton
Gender: Male
My common sense is tingling.
| | Re: Question about bird feces/etc
<Reply # 9 on 5/12/2008 12:49 AM >
| | | | I have a question. Does a normal dust mask protect against the fungus and the various viruses that are present in silos? Or do I need something like an asbestos mask to prevent myself from getting it?
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blackhawk
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
location:
Mission Control
UER newbie
| | | Re: Question about bird feces/etc
<Reply # 10 on 5/12/2008 4:40 AM >
| | | | Posted by Sestet
Hantavirus is always a concern in places that are littered with the excrement of tiny scurrying vermin, and the easiest and most common way to contract it is indeed breathing in particles in the air that waft up from rat urine, etc. I'm not a doctor (and I'm not sure anyone here is, you may want to see a real one ASAP), but I do know that like most similar diseases Hantavirus has an incubation period of about 2-4 weeks; so if you're sick, you probably won't know it before two weeks has passed. It also means that if you make it past a month with no serious symptoms, you should be fine. The CDC lists these as common symptoms:
Onset symptoms include fever, chills, malaise, headaches, nausea, abdominal and back pain, respiratory problems (such as the ones common with influenza; mainly coughing), as well as gastrointestinal problems. These symptoms normally occur for 3-7 days, 2-4 weeks after initial infection.
If any of these manifest themselves after a week or two, definitely get yourself to a doctor, and I would suggest you do that now just to make sure; the symptom that follows this period is listed as "renal failure," and I'm sure you don't want to find out what that's like. Hanta is more common in the Pacific south, but apparently has been reported in places like Oregon and Washington in considerably numbers.
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Hantavirus is very nasty and real. You breath enough dried infected feces/urine particles, you will get it. It kills.
I'm also amused by how some here seem to think there's two or three pathogens to be concerned over. Dozens is more like it if not hundreds... pigeons are know vectors of human disease.
I worked on structural steel for years, including bridges. I've seen droppings inches thick. Guess what needs to be done to paint the insides of box beams? That right, it has to be scraped out. I was sick for 3+ weeks after working on that site. I just kept getting sicker too, even after the second week. Fever, swollen lymph nodes, but no respiratory symptoms. My doctor (he's real good) was baffled, and I felt like shit. At close to a month I finally started feeling better, it never was diagnosed, but I learned my lesson when it comes to rats with wings. I hate pigeons.
Don't think you'll be so lucky as to contracting a disease that will be recognized while your still alive or able to be saved...
Pigeons are implicated as a vector for salmonella. Typhoid fever is one of the virulent strains of salmonella. It is very contagious.
They carry disease causing viruses, mites, fungi, and bacteria.
Here's a few more to add to your list:
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/PS019
You see Avian TB? It's a Mycobacterium, nasty, and hard to treat.
Posted by ltsOkay
I have a question. Does a normal dust mask protect against the fungus and the various viruses that are present in silos? Or do I need something like an asbestos mask to prevent myself from getting it?
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No, a dust mask won't work.
You need a HEPA respirator mask and gloves.
Never eat without first thoroughly washing your hands. Avoid contact of your nose, eyes, and mouth until you wash your hands. Wash clothing afterwards.
Chances are you'll be fine without any protection, but avoid heavily infested areas to be safe. At least try not to stir up dust, or lick your fingers
Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
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MindHacker
location:
Suburbs of DC
Gender: Male
If you spot a terrorist arrow, pin it to the wall with your shoulder.
| | Re: Question about bird feces/etc
<Reply # 11 on 5/12/2008 1:27 PM >
| | | | | Posted by sandailiPigeon droppings had accumulated to a depth of one foot |
...
As long as you are outside / the buildings are so open to the elements you are essentially outside even while within, you should be fine. I've always been fine. I don't worry unless I'm crunching through poo or stirring up little clouds of poo-dust.
Your asbestos filter is sufficient for this stuff though, assuming that you take the proper precautions (like not walking into your car, taking it off there, getting whatever was on it all over your car for you to breath... etc etc etc
"That's just my opinion. I would, however, advocate for explosive breaching, since speed and looking cool are both concerns in my job."-Wilkinshire |
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Furious D
location:
Northern Ontario
Gender: Male
The Night Time is the Right Time
| | Re: Question about bird feces/etc
<Reply # 12 on 5/12/2008 11:50 PM >
| | | | Posted by MindHacker
...I don't worry unless I'm crunching through poo or stirring up little clouds of poo-dust...
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Ahhh poo dust...
"The time of getting fame for your name on its own is over. Artwork that is only about wanting to be famous will never make you famous. Fame is a by-product of doing something else. You don't go to a restaurant and order a meal because you want to have a shit."
-Banksy
The work of FuriousD: https://www.flickr...photos/opdendries/ |
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camarochic007
location:
Tennessee
Gender: Female
Suck it, Trebeck.
| | Re: Question about bird feces/etc
<Reply # 13 on 5/13/2008 3:31 AM >
| | | | Posted by Furious D
Ahhh poo dust...
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mmmhmm. like an old, dried up fart.
I love Christmas on UER. |
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Bean
location:
Pickering
Gender: Female
I once met a girl, or should I say she once met me
| | Re: Question about bird feces/etc
<Reply # 14 on 5/15/2008 3:53 PM >
| | | | What are the percentages of contracting the infections/diseases listed?
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Sand
location:
Pac South
Everything interesting is always behind a fence.
| | Re: Question about bird feces/etc
<Reply # 15 on 5/20/2008 7:46 AM >
| | | | Posted by Bean
What are the percentages of contracting the infections/diseases listed?
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Percentages don't mean anything, really. It all depends on exposure and how you protect yourself - but if you want statistics on how many people in whatever country contract these diseases per year, I'll find the info for you.
L
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blackhawk
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
location:
Mission Control
UER newbie
| | | Re: Question about bird feces/etc
<Reply # 16 on 5/20/2008 12:17 PM >
| | | | Posted by sandaili
Percentages don't mean anything, really. It all depends on exposure and how you protect yourself - but if you want statistics on how many people in whatever country contract these diseases per year, I'll find the info for you.
L
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Yeah stats don't mean shit when your one of them.
I'd say the odds are pretty good...
Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
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Bean
location:
Pickering
Gender: Female
I once met a girl, or should I say she once met me
| | Re: Question about bird feces/etc
<Reply # 17 on 5/20/2008 7:57 PM >
| | | | Posted by sandaili
Percentages don't mean anything, really. It all depends on exposure and how you protect yourself - but if you want statistics on how many people in whatever country contract these diseases per year, I'll find the info for you.
L
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That makes sense. I guess I was just wondering what the likeliness of catching something was from being in a building that has a couple years worth of animal feces built up for an hour or two with no mask?
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