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Myelin
    
location:
The End of Canada
Gender: Male
 |  | Re: ? to say if confronted on a mission?????
<Reply # 20 on 1/28/2007 4:28 PM >
|  | | | Rain......I have (worked security) and while I agree with much of what you say, it's true that by the time security gets police on the phone and the police finally arrive, the UE dude is long gone. The UE dude won't have his car parked next to the main gates, so no licence plate to run. I have worked in a place with half a million dollars in video surv. equipment and none of it was good enough to get an image worthy of identifying someone. Just the same, it doesn't hurt to be civil with security guards when you meet them. While many are "insecure jerks," some are just paying their way thru college or maybe that's just the job they ended up in. Not all are wannabes. And many can be reasoned with. I'm sure you are too. I'd feel 'em out first and if they act like a jackass, I'd govern myself accordingly.
What I truly hate is when I'm on one of my typical "lite" UE missions that does not involve getting into into someone's private building and then someone who has no business confronting me walks up with this CIHY shit. At least it's the guard's job to confront trespassers. But when some numpty starts that shit on a public street that really cheeses me off. It seems to happen about half the time I'm out on "tourist" missions. I listen to the scanner frequently and hear calls where citizens call the cops reporting "photographer in public area taking pictures" ... uhhh, does anyone think Al Queda is going to send some lardass with an FM2n on a tripod in broad daylight to recon a target? What happened to the days when people just found a 100 year old buidling with interesting architecture worthy of photographing, not cause for immediate suspicion?
As for cops, they get bullshitted 24/7, just like customs officers. I wouldn't even bother trying to lie to those guys. They aren't exactly naive.
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rainman8889
 
location:
H.T.S.F.C. Time to gain and a time to lose.
Bye for now.
| | Re: ? to say if confronted on a mission?????
<Reply # 21 on 1/28/2007 6:00 PM >
| | | | Posted by Yehoshua
"There was a guy here, he had brown hair, a green shirt and blue jeans! Go arrest people you know who own green shirts!" Face it, unless they are some small-town criminal well-known to police, it doesn't matter if you have a good description of me, or I appear on a surveillance camera. These aren't ATM/bank cameras, they're not capturing intricate details on the shape of my nose, pictures can't be printed in the local paper, they capture the fact there's somebody walking around. Video evidence is damning *if* they also catch you, it won't help them catch you unless as mentioned, it's a close-up camera like in a taxicab, behind a bank teller, or on an ATM. A camera in a warehouse is great evidence if they *catch* me at the scene, but once I'm away, it doesn't do shit.
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You'd be surprised at the advances made in surveillance cameras. A site I worked at prior to this had their cameras zoom in on people with excellent clarity. Also, the software for this controller has the camera zooming in automatically when there's someone moving around. And as I mentioned before, there will be a time you will be caught on the scene. Your luck won't always remain with you. Besides, we make it a point to have a better description than that. What you described there is not worth the cop's time.
Posted by Yehoshua
I probably didn't "stay long enough" as you put it, but so what? I didn't use the fact I'd worked security to bolster my argument, I only pointed it out after you tried to use the fact *you* worked security to bolster yours and claimed I was ignorant since I "hadn't".
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Posted by Yehoshua
The simplest advice on getting caught always boils down to "Don't run from, or lie to, a cop. But it's okay to do either with rent-a-cop security guards. Cops are largely professional and understanding as long as they believe you. Even if a security guard believes you, he's still an insecure jerk who'll try to make your life miserable".
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When I pointed out that I don't believe you worked in security or stayed long enough, that was in response to the comment I italicized. And the part that I bolded, sounded like you are painting all guards with the same brush.
Yes, I do agree there are guards that are jerks, hell, I've seen jerks in all professions, most guards are just trying to make a living and don't get paid enough to put up with that kind of crap.
Posted by Yehoshua
If it comes down to a kid being disrespectful and running from me, or the kid spending a night in prison and paying $800 in court costs, I'm not going to begrudge him for running. Surprisingly, you don't have to be polite and respectful to every single person in the world - especially not if their purpose is going to make your existence more miserable. You know what, if the kid who made my Nikes ever comes to Toronto, I grant him full and complete license to kick me in the shin and call me a corporate bastard.
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And if that kid was respectful and didn't run, that kid has a much better chance of just being walked out the door with just a verbal warning. I have done that on several occasions. Much simpler than laying charges.
Also, unless I'm missing something here, do you honestly believe all security guards have the purpose of making someone else's existence more miserable? Maybe that's the reason why the shitters at EI would not answer any of my questions when I first went to them for help. Would that give me the right to go over and kick them in the shins?
[last edit 1/28/2007 6:16 PM by rainman8889 - edited 1 times]
Gone for a while. Be back when I'm back. |
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rainman8889
location:
H.T.S.F.C. Time to gain and a time to lose.
Bye for now.
| | Re: ? to say if confronted on a mission?????
<Reply # 22 on 1/28/2007 6:15 PM >
| | | | Posted by Myelin
Rain......I have (worked security) and while I agree with much of what you say, it's true that by the time security gets police on the phone and the police finally arrive, the UE dude is long gone. The UE dude won't have his car parked next to the main gates, so no licence plate to run. I have worked in a place with half a million dollars in video surv. equipment and none of it was good enough to get an image worthy of identifying someone. Just the same, it doesn't hurt to be civil with security guards when you meet them. While many are "insecure jerks," some are just paying their way thru college or maybe that's just the job they ended up in. Not all are wannabes. And many can be reasoned with. I'm sure you are too. I'd feel 'em out first and if they act like a jackass, I'd govern myself accordingly.
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I hear you there too. That's why I make it a point to not take it personal when someone runs from me. I actually had someone run from me from my site but got nailed at another site. Guess that person's luck ran out.
And like you, when I am not on duty and in another building, I've ran into both types of guards. The assholes and the good ones. I don't say anything about what I do for a living (unless asked). If the guard acts like a jackass, I just keep my cool and let him/her make a total fool out of themselves in public. I won't degrade myself by acting like a jackass in public.
Posted by Myelin
What I truly hate is when I'm on one of my typical "lite" UE missions that does not involve getting into into someone's private building and then someone who has no business confronting me walks up with this CIHY shit. At least it's the guard's job to confront trespassers. But when some numpty starts that shit on a public street that really cheeses me off. It seems to happen about half the time I'm out on "tourist" missions. I listen to the scanner frequently and hear calls where citizens call the cops reporting "photographer in public area taking pictures" ... uhhh, does anyone think Al Queda is going to send some lardass with an FM2n on a tripod in broad daylight to recon a target? What happened to the days when people just found a 100 year old buidling with interesting architecture worthy of photographing, not cause for immediate suspicion?
As for cops, they get bullshitted 24/7, just like customs officers. I wouldn't even bother trying to lie to those guys. They aren't exactly naive.
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Yes, that definitely sucks. Our company makes it very clear where our authority begins and more importantly, where it ends. Someone on a public street taking pics of the building's exterior? I don't waste time sweating that.
On the property though and I politely ask the person to shut the camera off.
And as for being a wannabe cop, forget that crap! I know those guys get an extra heavy dose of bullshit 24/7.
Gone for a while. Be back when I'm back. |
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Eagle_Crow
  
location:
Anywhere I wanna be
Gender: Female
| |  | Re: ? to say if confronted on a mission?????
<Reply # 23 on 1/29/2007 10:21 PM >
| | | | Maybe I'm lucky but the only time I was confronted I played "stupid girl".
"Oh sorry, I didn't think anyone would mind" bats eyes. Heeheehee.......
Eagle Crow
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thesh4rpie
location:
C-Bus
Gender: Male
Street climb junkie
| |  | | Re: ? to say if confronted on a mission?????
<Reply # 24 on 1/30/2007 4:33 AM >
| | | | Posted by Eagle_Crow
Maybe I'm lucky but the only time I was confronted I played "stupid girl".
"Oh sorry, I didn't think anyone would mind" bats eyes. Heeheehee.......
Eagle Crow
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I tried that once. Turned out the cop wasn't gay or a pedophile.
Crap.
Sometimes I'm lucky enough to be wearing regular clothes when it's possible to get busted. (As I've never EU'd, but have been out sneaking around places after dark that were guarded by stingy upperclass county PD.)
When I see a cop car coming by or something and I happen to be outside, just act nature, if you have a cellphone, whip it out and pretend you're on it.
When the cop drives by, I look old enough not to be doing any B&E's, and figures it's not a big deal. Especially if I'm on the phone.
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HillbillyHorus
location:
Charlottesville Virginia
Gender: Male
Im in ur government, killin ur d00dz
| | | Re: ? to say if confronted on a mission?????
<Reply # 25 on 1/31/2007 1:00 PM >
| | | | Breaking & Entering is a lot more than breaking something to get in. In many states, it means exclusively that you entered the building with the intent of doing something illegal.
You can't fall off a mountain. |
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eoghan
location:
dormont pa
Gender: Male
| | Re: ? to say if confronted on a mission?????
<Reply # 26 on 1/31/2007 5:59 PM >
| | | | in Pa you are more often than not charged with defiant trespass, which takes you to the local magistrate's office. a magistrate is an elected position and more often than not isn't even a lawyer, they just have to go to a short school to learn "judgin" as it were. many times you can get a defiant trespass charge dropped if you are careful and work hizzoner a little.
it's been my experience that if you are friendly and don't set off any of the officers hotbuttons, you can walk away from the situation. i'm an investigator by trade, so sometimes i will show my creds and get off that way, but if you learn to think on your feet, and not appear to be a bad guy you can avoid most of the problems.
think about what cops don't like in your area, and then avoid that sort of look when ue'ing. i'm not saying dress like a funeral director, or beaver cleaver, but you get the point. if you dress like a gangsta wannabe, then you're gonna get more attention from them regardless of what your activity or location is. keep your hands visible, make eye contact and be polite. if you skulk around, be evasive, or try to pull off a poorly thought lie........you're gonna get hammered.
if you need to lie, then think about beforehand, practice and rehearse. make it smooth and be prepared for odd or offbeat questions, don't let yourself get thrown and start to stutter or freeze up. don't be afraid to say "i don't know" even if your made up story were real you wouldn't have all the answers. try not to look guilty, this is where the practice comes in, if the story feels false to you it will feel false to him too. that's why the truth often gets you off, it feels genuine and isn't threatening.
remember if you are off in an out of the way place and feel isolated the cop probably does too. it's not a big deal to you because you know what's going on, you know that you aren't going to shoot the cop, but he doesn't know that. for him an encounter like this is very dangerous, and potentially fatal. how would you feel if you knew that any person you met might knife or shoot you? what if you knew that the cop could shoot you on the spot if he wanted too? you'd be a little more guarded and suspicious too. think about his position, hi is probably alone, his backup may be a long way off, and his job is dangerous. not to mention that most people resent cops unless they need one, so he expects folks to be unfriendly. if you carefully follow some rules you can avoid the shitty end of the stick pretty easily.
eoghan
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag and begin slitting throats... -H.L. Mencken
dude, if you ever shoot me with a .25, and i find out about it, i'll kick yer ass! |
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Glass
location:
Chicago
as one does
| | | Re: ? to say if confronted on a mission?????
<Reply # 27 on 1/31/2007 8:19 PM >
| | | | Posted by eoghan
think about what cops don't like in your area
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Blacks, Native Americans, Jews, and Gays?
Guess I'm good...
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eoghan
location:
dormont pa
Gender: Male
| | Re: ? to say if confronted on a mission?????
<Reply # 28 on 1/31/2007 10:25 PM >
| | | | if you dislike cops that badly, then most of this thread is already a waste. which is not to say that some cops aren't assholes. and even some departments [usually small ones] aren't also populated solely with such, but not all. it's usually s cross section of the general populace, with a slight bit of conservative bias in the rank and file and some liberal bias in the brass hats.
but as with any generalization, it's gonna be wrong in some instances, i've met enough leo's that i hated in my life, so don't jump on me with all the stories of horrible cops.......i already know all of em.
pat
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag and begin slitting throats... -H.L. Mencken
dude, if you ever shoot me with a .25, and i find out about it, i'll kick yer ass! |
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Explorer Zero
| | | Re: ? to say if confronted on a mission?????
<Reply # 29 on 1/31/2007 10:43 PM >
| | | | you rookies just dont get it
if confronted by the cops, always be sure to tell them "pssst, Im on a, mission"
use a real soft low voice and get right up in their face, and breath on 'em
keep staring directly into their eyes but let one eye drift off toward their sidearm, kinda lazy eye style, then start grinnin and breathing real hard
they'll probably think youre crazy and let you go especially if you start speaking in tongues
works every time 
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Jonsered
location:
Back in New Mexico where I belong
Gender: Male
Dressed for a scarecrow ball.........
| |  | | Re: ? to say if confronted on a mission?????
<Reply # 30 on 1/31/2007 10:49 PM >
| | | | Damn 2x, around here that just might work. Hmm. Got to perfect my lazy eye move.
I have changed my personal exploring ethics code. From now on it will be: "Take only aimed shots, leave only hobo corpses." Copper scrappers, meth heads and homeless beware. The Jonsered cometh among you, bringing fear and dread.
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Glass
location:
Chicago
as one does
| | | Re: ? to say if confronted on a mission?????
<Reply # 31 on 1/31/2007 11:19 PM >
| | | | Posted by Jonsered
Got to perfect my lazy eye move.
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"Did the dog send you??"
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blackhawk
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
location:
Mission Control
UER newbie
| | | Re: ? to say if confronted on a mission?????
<Reply # 32 on 2/1/2007 12:55 AM >
| | | | 2X, how did you get my interrogation video?
Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
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Explorer Zero
| | | Re: ? to say if confronted on a mission?????
<Reply # 33 on 2/1/2007 4:07 AM >
| | | | 
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UWSDWF
location:
Toronsborough
Gender: Male
| | | Re: ? to say if confronted on a mission?????
<Reply # 34 on 2/13/2007 1:27 PM >
| | | | I've worked in security for better then 4years (yeah flame me if you want to I really could care less) so I might be able to give you somewhat first hand advice.
-don't lie, stretch the truth but never lie (especially with police, they could charge you with obstruction depending on what you lie about)
-don't run, chances are they'll just tell you to get out of here you crazy kid if you get stopped (unless of course you're in a secure area). Things to consider; who knows the place better you or the guy that spends 12hr days there? If you run and they catch (high probability) they will be pissed off, also if it's cops, you then have felony evade charges.
-don't talk back, basically the same reason not to run or lie
Remember it's a job to them, make there lives easier and they'll (probably) do the same.
*note: this does not account for fluxuations in the asshole scale, judge your situation accordingly. Adaptability is the greatest skill a person can have
Cheers,
UWSDWF |
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Etownconcretex
location:
long island,NY
Gender: Male
| | | | Re: ? to say if confronted on a mission?????
<Reply # 35 on 2/13/2007 6:56 PM >
| | | | if its cops just tell them the truth less hassle b/c they will find it out any way.If its someone else ask them what they are doing in the building. if its off limits they shouldn't be in there either. last week i was exploring a factory and some guy asked me what i was doing there and if I was supposed to be in the factory. i asked him the same question and he just went on his way. Later i found out it was just some guy working on nearby phone lines.
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natxtron
location:
memphis
urbanesquelation
| |  | Re: ? to say if confronted on a mission?????
<Reply # 36 on 2/13/2007 7:44 PM >
| | | | Posted by Sentinel
Ive always found that not lying to the cops is the best thing to do. They are trained in reading people and are a lot smarter than most think.
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believe it or not, the cops in my city have to take an iq and psych exam to get on the force. if their iq is too high, they fail. the only reason i know is cause i tried to get a job once. hehe.
maybe not always the smartest guys, but they do have a lot of experience in the intuition department. don't lie, but never tell em more than you have to.
and to quote mr. durden... "first rule of fight club is- you do not talk about fight club.
second rule of...
yeah yeah you get the idea. i hate it when someone gets nabbed and the first thing they use for a defense is the ue label. is it getting hot in here or is it just me?
Are you now, or have you ever been? |
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blackhawk
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
location:
Mission Control
UER newbie
| | | Re: ? to say if confronted on a mission?????
<Reply # 37 on 2/14/2007 2:42 AM >
| | | | Posted by natxtron
believe it or not, the cops in my city have to take an iq and psych exam to get on the force. if their iq is too high, they fail. the only reason i know is cause i tried to get a job once. hehe.
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The really smart ones are always insane; they get jobs with the NSA and CIA.
Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
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cute_boy
location:
Ontario
Gender: Male
| | Re: ? to say if confronted on a mission?????
<Reply # 38 on 2/15/2007 11:24 PM >
| | | | if you think your really screwed dont say anything
usually you can talk your way out of it
if you get caught with buglary tools near or outside a location but the cops never saw you use them
(make sure you have something at home you used them on first)
say
i ment to drop them of at home but forgot
and when they asked you if you used them say "i have used them at home"
(i don't use tools im too poor but i got this idea from something else)
No signature needed |
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blackhawk
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
location:
Mission Control
UER newbie
| | | Re: ? to say if confronted on a mission?????
<Reply # 39 on 2/15/2007 11:39 PM >
| | | | Posted by cute_boy
if you think your really screwed dont say anything
usually you can talk your way out of it
if you get caught with buglary tools near or outside a location but the cops never saw you use them
(make sure you have something at home you used them on first)
say
i ment to drop them of at home but forgot
and when they asked you if you used them say "i have used them at home"
(i don't use tools im too poor but i got this idea from something else)
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The cops will say; "You'll have your day in court to tell your side of the story..."
Carrying B&E tools while trespassing is a sure fired way to get locked up on felony charges in the USA.
Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
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Ethics