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NoSuchPerson
      
Stop, or I'll ask you again!
 |  | Re: What exactly can mall cops/security do?
<Reply # 40 on 1/15/2007 5:07 AM >
|  | | | Posted by Kemuri
As far as the photographs are concerned they are protected by the first amendment. You can be told to leave, they can call the police, or whatever though. I don't know about your local laws. Either way they cannot ask for your camera, for your film, and if you continue shooting they can't do anything to stop it.
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Except demand that you turn over the camera & film. If you don't? Well, cameras have been known to get thrown to the ground with enough force to smash them to pieces. If you think for a second of saying "that's illegal", you need a crash course in how the law works.
Sure, it's techically illegal for a security guard or police officer to do such a thing, but guess what the penalty would be? At worst, 3 or 4 days of paid time off. A Police Officer up this way was taken to court for illegally discharging a firearm, causing death. Guess what happened to him? 18 months of probation WHILE STILL BEING PAID as a Police Officer. Do you really think that was punishment?
What the law says can be done, and what can ACTUALLY be done by police/security are two totally different things. As a Police Officer once told me... as long as there aren't any broken bones, they can do pretty much whatever they want.
Unit calling radio say again? |
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NoSuchPerson
Stop, or I'll ask you again!
| | Re: What exactly can mall cops/security do?
<Reply # 41 on 1/15/2007 5:08 AM >
| | | | Posted by Mickael
What if you get banned from a mall but you actually work in a store in that same mall ?
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Well, you then risk getting arrested if you go to work. That's happened before in Toronto. The law upheld the ban notice, the person was forced to quit their job.
Unit calling radio say again? |
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Gloves
location:
Chicago
Gender: Male
| |  | Re: What exactly can mall cops/security do?
<Reply # 42 on 2/19/2007 12:52 AM >
| | | | As far as mall cops go, I treat all authority with a certain amount of respect. It makes you look good, and it helps in not getting in any more trouble than you are already in.
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NoSuchPerson
Stop, or I'll ask you again!
| | Re: What exactly can mall cops/security do?
<Reply # 43 on 2/19/2007 12:59 AM >
| | | | And that's exactly the kind of attitude that everyone should have.
A lot of people just don't realize the kind of authority a mall security guard has.
An example. A friend of mine (I won't mention names) was exploring with someone at an active location in downtown Toronto. This location is known to have horny security guards who like to beat people up. Well, the fellow he was with had some stolen items in his backpack. Security arrested them, searched them, went through their bags and handcuffed them.
Was that an illegal search? Probably... but up until that happened, these 2 people had both said to me in the past that security can't do that kind of thing...well, their story changed after this happened to them.
The bottom line is that once you're behind closed doors (which you can be moved to, with force, legally), anything goes and it's really your word against theirs. So have a good attitude and don't disrespect an officer, and chances are, if all you're doing is trespassing - you'll be let go and nothing will come of it.
Unit calling radio say again? |
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blackhawk
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
location:
Mission Control
UER newbie
| |  | Re: What exactly can mall cops/security do?
<Reply # 44 on 2/19/2007 1:13 AM >
| | | | Posted by ExKa|iBuR
And that's exactly the kind of attitude that everyone should have.
A lot of people just don't realize the kind of authority a mall security guard has.
An example. A friend of mine (I won't mention names) was exploring with someone at an active location in downtown Toronto. This location is known to have horny security guards who like to beat people up. Well, the fellow he was with had some stolen items in his backpack. Security arrested them, searched them, went through their bags and handcuffed them.
Was that an illegal search? Probably... but up until that happened, these 2 people had both said to me in the past that security can't do that kind of thing...well, their story changed after this happened to them.
The bottom line is that once you're behind closed doors (which you can be moved to, with force, legally), anything goes and it's really your word against theirs. So have a good attitude and don't disrespect an officer, and chances are, if all you're doing is trespassing - you'll be let go and nothing will come of it.
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Exactly; who's says they're gonna play by the rules? The ones that your prolly breaking too? Turn around is fair play...
Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
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TDK1000
| | Re: What exactly can mall cops/security do?
<Reply # 45 on 2/19/2007 1:35 AM >
| | | | Posted by c1rc4
Depends where you are. We don't have "mall cops" or "security" here, we have actual cops roaming our mall, plus more roaming the parking lot. Maybe that's due to the major issues when it first opened and all, or just due to the crappy area it's in. Some other malls around here have the same thing.
Security does have a right to arrest you though if you are doing something. Just like when you are exploring a place, it is often security that approaches you, not the police. They are given that right by the property owner and can use it.
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Dosen't shock me that you're from VA. We've got the same thing down in the hampton roads area. Mall security backed by city police officers
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NoSuchPerson
Stop, or I'll ask you again!
| | Re: What exactly can mall cops/security do?
<Reply # 46 on 2/19/2007 2:32 AM >
| | | | They're backed by Police Officers everywhere you go.
Unit calling radio say again? |
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rainman8889
location:
H.T.S.F.C. Time to gain and a time to lose.
Bye for now.
| | Re: What exactly can mall cops/security do?
<Reply # 47 on 2/26/2007 1:52 AM >
| | | | The Ontario legislation is called: Private Investigators and Security Guards Act.
Posted by Kemuri
As far as the photographs are concerned they are protected by the first amendment. You can be told to leave, they can call the police, or whatever though. I don't know about your local laws. Either way they cannot ask for your camera, for your film, and if you continue shooting they can't do anything to stop it.
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I don't know about the US but when you are on private property, Security can tell you to stop taking pics and leave. If you refuse, that's trespass.
And as for not being able to do anything to stop the picture taking, all the guard has to do is block your camera's field of vision. S/he don't have to touch you or your camera but just get in the way of the camera.
Gone for a while. Be back when I'm back. |
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rainman8889
location:
H.T.S.F.C. Time to gain and a time to lose.
Bye for now.
| | Re: What exactly can mall cops/security do?
<Reply # 48 on 2/26/2007 2:05 AM >
| | | | Posted by kemmer
I guess it depends on where you are. BITD we used to drive to the various malls and shopping centers and act all suspicious at night. Driving slowly with the headlights off, sometimes with spot light. On snowy nights, we would do doughnuts. We would wait for the Security guys to come, and take off only to return a few minutes later. Eventually, we would lead them on a slow speed chase around the mall and finally leave the property lest the real cops show up. You would think they would enjoy the diversion, but they didn't. One time the cops showed up at my house (again, *sigh*) and asked what was going on. I just told them I let friends borrow my car and there wasn't a thing they could do. Another time, the security chased us on public streets for a while till we ended up on a dead end street. He blocked us in, and when the cops showed up, they chewed out the security guy for following us out of the mall property and gave us a stern talking too. It was hilarious to see the mall cop completely stripped of all authority. Can you tell by my last two posts that there wasn't a whole lot to do where I grew up?
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Posted by blackhawk
Yeah I'm bored to tears. Try drugs or something.
Great fucking first post(s), keep up the great work!
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Well put blackhawk.
Security does not like the diversion. Most guards don't get paid enough for that kind of 'excitement' and prefer boring shifts. Count yourself lucky that the cops weren't there on another call or had instructions to pay closer attention to the malls because of a major crime that may have happened there (rape, murder etc). You would have a lot of explaining to do.
I find it pretty sad when people get a kick out of causing trouble for other people. (Reference to the line I bolded) I don't condone the Security Guard for leaving the site to chase someone (the company I work for treats that as grounds for immediate dismissal), since the site is the guard's responsibility. However, provoking the guy is also considered harassment and when someone harasses anyone like that, they have no sympathy from me if they get hurt.
Games like that are the kind of games that people without lives play.
[last edit 2/26/2007 2:09 AM by rainman8889 - edited 1 times]
Gone for a while. Be back when I'm back. |
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Alx_xlA
location:
Edmonton, Alberta
Gender: Male
| | Re: What exactly can mall cops/security do?
<Reply # 49 on 8/23/2007 9:47 PM >
|  | | | Up here in Edmonton, a large number of mall security officers are special constables or "peace officers," who have all the powers of a regular police officer, except the ability to carry a firearm. They can still make arrests and charge you with a criminal offence if necessary. The simplest way to deal with them is to avoid them. They usually have more pressing things to do than take down a lowly photographer.
Knowledge is power. Power corrupts. Study hard and be evil. |
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Deuterium
location:
PNW
Gender: Male
| | Re: What exactly can mall cops/security do?
<Reply # 50 on 8/25/2007 4:22 AM >
| | | | Posted by ExKa|iBuR
Except demand that you turn over the camera & film. If you don't? Well, cameras have been known to get thrown to the ground with enough force to smash them to pieces. If you think for a second of saying "that's illegal", you need a crash course in how the law works.
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If you refuse to turn it over, but mall security takes it from you by force, that's considered the same as taking things from a stranger's personnel belonging by force.
If your situation is such that leaving when asked to do so wouldn't be considered trespassing, but they detain you or take your camera, you tell the police you complied with their request within their legal power(asking you to leave). Then you demand that you want to personally file a charge against the guard for false arrest, robbery and wanton destruction of property.
You might have been breaking the house rules by taking pictures causing him to ask you to leave, but the guard has no more right to rob you than someone that accidentally cut you off have the right to smash out the windows on your car.
So.. you sue the bastards(guard, his employer and the management)
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KingKong
location:
Pittsburgh PA / Rochester NY
Gender: Male
Insert artistic / badass sounding phrase here.
| | | Re: What exactly can mall cops/security do?
<Reply # 51 on 8/31/2007 12:12 AM >
| | | | | As far as mall cops go, I treat all authority with a certain amount of respect. It makes you look good, and it helps in not getting in any more trouble than you are already in. |
Its true, that is a good attitude to have. A good attitude could get you out of a pretty sticky situation. One time when I was younger, I got chased by a security officer in an S-10 after my girlfriend and I were doing doughnuts in my shaggin' wagon behind a movie theater. We had a low speed chase around the mall and then I pulled over just as we were about to get back on the main road. A kid younger than I was got out with a mag light and just told me not to do doughnuts no mo.
(Not UE related, but on the security subject): Once I worked for a large retail store. I wont tell you who it is but it starts with a T and ends with arget. Anyway, I was cart attendant one night and I was getting carts next to a silver civic with the headlights on and system blasting. As I walked by, I noticed that there was a topless girl doing the "pre-gaming ritual" to her reclining boyfriend in the driver seat. More for fun than anything, I walked into the store and told my friend who worked security about it.
We caught them on camera and called the cops, watching the whole time on the camera. 5 minuets later, a cop shows up and boxes in the car with his cruiser. By now the couple were getting the hot wet on, and didn't notice. The cop walks up to the drivers window and taps it with his mag light. The girl pops up, boobs flying.
Here is the killer: The two though it would be a good idea to get high and drunk before having sex in a not so remote section of the parking lot, so instead of jailing them, The cop called the girls father to come pick both of them up, then impounded the car. Talk about an awkward ride home.
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NoSuchPerson
Stop, or I'll ask you again!
| | Re: What exactly can mall cops/security do?
<Reply # 52 on 8/31/2007 4:05 AM >
| | | | Posted by Deuterium
You might have been breaking the house rules by taking pictures causing him to ask you to leave, but the guard has no more right to rob you than someone that accidentally cut you off have the right to smash out the windows on your car.
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If you're arrested for trespassing, and it's believed that evidence lies on you (IE, pictures on your camera) to indicate such, they are allowed to seize the property to be used as evidence in court. So you'd better believe they can take your camera, by force if necessary.
That said, it doesn't happen very rarely, as you can get into a whole lot of trouble if it's determined that you seized it under false pretences.
Unit calling radio say again? |
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blackhawk
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
location:
Mission Control
UER newbie
| | | Re: What exactly can mall cops/security do?
<Reply # 53 on 8/31/2007 2:15 PM >
| | | | Posted by ExKa|iBuR
If you're arrested for trespassing, and it's believed that evidence lies on you (IE, pictures on your camera) to indicate such, they are allowed to seize the property to be used as evidence in court. So you'd better believe they can take your camera, by force if necessary.
That said, it doesn't happen very rarely, as you can get into a whole lot of trouble if it's determined that you seized it under false pretences.
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If your arrested for trespassing, anywhere, you bet they will seize your camera, film or cards.
If your with the press you have greater leeway, but on private property your playing by the house rules.
Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
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Deuterium
location:
PNW
Gender: Male
| | Re: What exactly can mall cops/security do?
<Reply # 54 on 9/3/2007 6:48 AM >
| | | | Posted by ExKa|iBuR
If you're arrested for trespassing, and it's believed that evidence lies on you (IE, pictures on your camera) to indicate such, they are allowed to seize the property to be used as evidence in court. So you'd better believe they can take your camera, by force if necessary.
That said, it doesn't happen very rarely, as you can get into a whole lot of trouble if it's determined that you seized it under false pretences.
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Um, since when did fucking mall pigs have the right to take anything from you that you didn't take from premises they're protecting?
The REAL cops can seize your belongings on arrest, but the mall rental pig can't do shit.
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NoSuchPerson
Stop, or I'll ask you again!
| | Re: What exactly can mall cops/security do?
<Reply # 55 on 9/3/2007 7:40 AM >
| | | | Posted by Deuterium
Um, since when did fucking mall pigs have the right to take anything from you that you didn't take from premises they're protecting?
The REAL cops can seize your belongings on arrest, but the mall rental pig can't do shit.
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Since always.
If you use something in the commission of an offense, that item, whatever it may be, can be seized. As a Security Guard who is arresting you, they are able to take control over said thing providing they turn it over to the Police upon arrival.
Y'all on here seem to think that Security can't do anything, when in reality they can do a lot. They can detain you, they can search you and they can use physical force should you try otherwise.
Unit calling radio say again? |
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DevilC
location:
Washington, District of Corruption
Gender: Male
I serve as a blank screen on which people of vastly different political stripes project their views.
| | | Re: What exactly can mall cops/security do?
<Reply # 56 on 9/3/2007 1:47 PM >
| | | | Posted by ExKa|iBuR
Since always.
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The Canada versus US split always gets ExKa|iBuR in flame-outs on this topic.
What LEOs and private security agents can do in CA is much different than what they can do in the US.
These discussions are best held on a case by case basis - there are just too many "What-Ifs?"
Science flies you to the Moon. Religion flies you into tall buildings. |
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NoSuchPerson
Stop, or I'll ask you again!
| | Re: What exactly can mall cops/security do?
<Reply # 57 on 9/3/2007 3:05 PM >
| | | | Posted by DevilC
The Canada versus US split always gets ExKa|iBuR in flame-outs on this topic. |
No, I think it's more the fact that I know I'm always right.
[/sarcasm]
Unit calling radio say again? |
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TomUE
location:
Mukilteo WA.
Gender: Male
| |  |  | | | Re: What exactly can mall cops/security do?
<Reply # 58 on 9/4/2007 2:02 PM >
| | | | I was once approached by security out of the premises.. He had seen me inside the premises and was extremely pissed off.. His exact words: "I've been chasing you all day." He got my information: phone number, address, etc. and said he was giving it to the police.. He then proceeded to call my house several times. Could I have told him to go screw himself and left? Say I was caught on some security camera. What then?
-Tom
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NoSuchPerson
Stop, or I'll ask you again!
| | Re: What exactly can mall cops/security do?
<Reply # 59 on 9/4/2007 3:00 PM >
|  | | | You are under no obligation to tell him anything. However that might mean the difference between an arrest and a warning.
Unit calling radio say again? |
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