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Bigbob
location:
Clay,AL
Gender: Male
This is my invitation.
 |  | What exactly can mall cops/security do?
< on 12/26/2006 6:54 PM >
|  | | | What can they do to someone for "photographing the property"? If I get caught with a camera and walk off and come back later what can they do about it? They cant arrest me because they would be making a citizens arrest and to do that they need to have a reason such as me committing a misdemeanor;so what can they do?From what I've read I can refuse to show an ID or go to the mall office so that limits their "authority" even further.They could call the local police but that would be pretty much useless since I' ve comitted no crime and I'm not causing a scene.If I refused to speak to a mall cop,what then? They cant confiscate my camera because that would be stealing,since basically they are just a citizen themselves.
I just wondered what they can actually do,they always walk around thrusting their balls out so everyone cowers in fear, but what can they do?if anyone knows Alabama's laws on this please let me know.
P.S.Lets use this topic to answer each others questions on the topic.
My Gear: HP C618,Kodak CX7330,Canon S3 IS.MX 2000 Tripod. |
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blackhawk
 
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
location:
Mission Control
UER newbie
| |  | Re: What exactly can mall cops/security do?
<Reply # 1 on 12/27/2006 12:38 AM >
| | | | At a mall your on the owners property by their permission. They can revoke that at any time. Defiant trespass is a misdemeanor in most states.
If they inform you that your trespassing or have complied with the laws to properly warn you such as signs or fences, you can be arrested on the spot. Some structures or areas need not be identified at all depending on the state's laws; your suppose to know.
They can call the cops too.
You'll find that cops can be surprisingly intolerant of a someone with an arrogant attitude. Learning lessons in law by OJT can get expensive.
Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
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c1rc4
location:
Northern Virginia
Gender: Female
| | Re: What exactly can mall cops/security do?
<Reply # 2 on 12/27/2006 2:55 PM >
| | | | Depends where you are. We don't have "mall cops" or "security" here, we have actual cops roaming our mall, plus more roaming the parking lot. Maybe that's due to the major issues when it first opened and all, or just due to the crappy area it's in. Some other malls around here have the same thing.
Security does have a right to arrest you though if you are doing something. Just like when you are exploring a place, it is often security that approaches you, not the police. They are given that right by the property owner and can use it.
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Deuterium
 
location:
PNW
Gender: Male
| | Re: What exactly can mall cops/security do?
<Reply # 3 on 12/27/2006 11:40 PM >
| | | | Posted by Bigbob
What can they do to someone for "photographing the property"? If I get caught with a camera and walk off and come back later what can they do about it? They cant arrest me because they would be making a citizens arrest and to do that they need to have a reason such as me committing a misdemeanor;so what can they do?From what I've read I can refuse to show an ID or go to the mall office so that limits their "authority" even further.They could call the local police but that would be pretty much useless since I' ve comitted no crime and I'm not causing a scene.If I refused to speak to a mall cop,what then? They cant confiscate my camera because that would be stealing,since basically they are just a citizen themselves.
I just wondered what they can actually do,they always walk around thrusting their balls out so everyone cowers in fear, but what can they do?if anyone knows Alabama's laws on this please let me know.
P.S.Lets use this topic to answer each others questions on the topic.
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He can tell you photography is not permitted on his premise and he can tell you to leave the premise if he wants.
If you're photographing the property from outside the property line, there's not a damn they can do.
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blackhawk
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location:
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UER newbie
| | | Re: What exactly can mall cops/security do?
<Reply # 4 on 12/28/2006 12:15 AM >
| | | | Posted by Deuterium
He can tell you photography is not permitted on his premise and he can tell you to leave the premise if he wants.
If you're photographing the property from outside the property line, there's not a damn they can do.
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Yeah, but if he's informed verbally the he's trespassing and returns, it's defiant trespassing. It's not wise to push the issue when your in the wrong.
Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
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andrea
 
location:
Baltimore MD
Gender: Female
Apparently, I am heinous.
| | Re: What exactly can mall cops/security do?
<Reply # 5 on 12/28/2006 12:45 AM >
| | | | Posted by blackhawk
Yeah, but if he's informed verbally the he's trespassing and returns, it's defiant trespassing. It's not wise to push the issue when your in the wrong.
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He said nothing about returning to the property.
This isn't boot camp and you are not a ninja. But you sure look like an idiot in that outfit.
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blackhawk
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| | | Re: What exactly can mall cops/security do?
<Reply # 6 on 12/28/2006 12:48 AM >
| | | | Posted by andrea
He said nothing about returning to the property.
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"If I get caught with a camera and walk off and come back later what can they do about it?"
Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
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Bigbob
location:
Clay,AL
Gender: Male
This is my invitation.
| | Re: What exactly can mall cops/security do?
<Reply # 7 on 12/28/2006 4:19 AM >
| | | | How often do they grant someone permission to freely take pics? My recent approach has been to take pics with one of my smaller digital cameras (I have a bunch)instead of my big Canon, and If I get caught I just come back in a few weeks,thats what I meant by "Come back later."
[sarcasm]Should I slip 'em a five?[/sarcasm]
My Gear: HP C618,Kodak CX7330,Canon S3 IS.MX 2000 Tripod. |
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blackhawk
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location:
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| | | Re: What exactly can mall cops/security do?
<Reply # 8 on 12/28/2006 4:49 AM >
| | | | Posted by Bigbob
How often do they grant someone permission to freely take pics? My recent approach has been to take pics with one of my smaller digital cameras (I have a bunch)instead of my big Canon, and If I get caught I just come back in a few weeks,thats what I meant by "Come back later."
[sarcasm]Should I slip 'em a five?[/sarcasm]
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You would get much better pictures with the big Canon. Not have to look over your shoulder if you had permission, and possible see things otherwise inaccessible. Burglars don't carry big Canons, so bring the big boy.
If they're smart they will tell you your trespassing the first time. I've done with people who came to my house that I didn't like...
Cops can do the same. They know that; if a cop doesn't say that it could well be because he didn't feel you were causing a problem. Many times how people treat you is governed by how you approach them. Sometime honesty works better than anything else.
-Only a fool lies when honesty would serve him better-
Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
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spyguy67
Gender: Male
| | Re: What exactly can mall cops/security do?
<Reply # 9 on 12/28/2006 5:45 AM >
|  | | | not sure about the US but in canada all security guards comply with the security guard act. check your local library or the net to see if your state has these.
basically the rules of conduct for security guards.
and i know it is not called the security guard act here in canada i just cant remember what it is called
W
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Bigbob
location:
Clay,AL
Gender: Male
This is my invitation.
| | Re: What exactly can mall cops/security do?
<Reply # 10 on 12/28/2006 6:06 AM >
| | | | Usually they come up to me and say "I cant let you photograph the mall unless you have permission from mall management".When this happens should I explain to the guard what I'm doing,ask to be taken to mall management to get permission,or just leave?I could say I'm just photographing the area's architecture or something like that.
My Gear: HP C618,Kodak CX7330,Canon S3 IS.MX 2000 Tripod. |
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blackhawk
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| | | Re: What exactly can mall cops/security do?
<Reply # 11 on 12/28/2006 6:39 AM >
| | | | Posted by Bigbob
Usually they come up to me and say "I cant let you photograph the mall unless you have permission from mall management".When this happens should I explain to the guard what I'm doing,ask to be taken to mall management to get permission,or just leave?I could say I'm just photographing the area's architecture or something like that.
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I would either get permission or leave. I had that happen to me. The cop knew that I was sincere and just practicing. He suggested I go to a nearby strip mall where they didn't mind. Never pays to piss off cops, and malls are a drag.
Don't think just because your on public property that you can take pics of anything. DHS still makes house calls and if they want, they can lean on you hard. Avoid 911 hot spots, malls, bridges, power plants, DOD sites, chemical, oil, or you may be chatting with them. They're professional and polite, but they mean business. Cops can also turn the information about you over to DHS for further investigation if they feel you may pose a threat.
It's a dance and there's not always a clear cut way to do things. Avoid pissing off cops and such whenever possible. Don't do stupid things that will put your ass in a bind; somethings are best left alone. You have to use your own judgment.
Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
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Bigbob
location:
Clay,AL
Gender: Male
This is my invitation.
| | Re: What exactly can mall cops/security do?
<Reply # 12 on 12/28/2006 6:46 PM >
| | | | SOunds like asking would be a better route instead of just walking in with my S3 around my neck.After all most people around here are pretty lenient on this.
My Gear: HP C618,Kodak CX7330,Canon S3 IS.MX 2000 Tripod. |
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blackhawk
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
location:
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| | | Re: What exactly can mall cops/security do?
<Reply # 13 on 12/28/2006 7:00 PM >
| | | | Posted by Bigbob
SOunds like asking would be a better route instead of just walking in with my S3 around my neck.After all most people around here are pretty lenient on this.
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Each scenario is different, but if all you want are pics most people don't mind, in fact some love it. Try to see things from the other's point of view. Don't post the pics where they will cause the site, owner or cops grief. You may have to wait a few months or years before using the pics sometimes.
When dealing with cos, I try to put myself in their shoes and look at myself as they are. Remember they've done some things more then once too, so some things they will have little tolerance for. Like directly disobeying them, or resisting either verbally and especially physically.
Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
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Switchkey
location:
Victoria BC Canada
Gender: Male
| | Re: What exactly can mall cops/security do?
<Reply # 14 on 12/28/2006 8:05 PM >
| | | | Posted by spyguy67
not sure about the US but in canada all security guards comply with the security guard act. check your local library or the net to see if your state has these.
basically the rules of conduct for security guards.
and i know it is not called the security guard act here in canada i just cant remember what it is called
W
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It is provincial legislation. Try your province's website to find.
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Geo
| | Re: What exactly can mall cops/security do?
<Reply # 15 on 12/28/2006 8:07 PM >
| | | | As Blackhawk stated, every scenario is different. Just recently i had the opportunity to tell security that, in fact, they couldnt not stop me. Regardless of the "no trespassing" signs, and any attempt to stop me could result in their arrest on misdemeanor charges.
How?
I did my research on the local laws. But if you attempt that approach...you better damn well know what you're doing!
GV
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CaptOrbit
 
location:
Sarasota, FL or Cincinnati, OH
Gender: Male
There you are, right back in the jungle again.
| | | Re: What exactly can mall cops/security do?
<Reply # 16 on 12/29/2006 3:55 AM >
| | | | Post by Bigbob
Should I slip 'em a five? |
Hey, I've had that work. (shrugs.)
The personal responsibility train left the station years ago, and you gave it the finger as you watched it leave. |
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Kemuri
location:
Fort Collins, CO
Gender: Male
Boing Fwip!
| | Re: What exactly can mall cops/security do?
<Reply # 17 on 12/30/2006 5:59 PM >
| | | | Posted by Bigbob
What can they do to someone for "photographing the property"?
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As far as the photographs are concerned they are protected by the first amendment. You can be told to leave, they can call the police, or whatever though. I don't know about your local laws. Either way they cannot ask for your camera, for your film, and if you continue shooting they can't do anything to stop it.
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blackhawk
This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
location:
Mission Control
UER newbie
| | | Re: What exactly can mall cops/security do?
<Reply # 18 on 12/30/2006 6:10 PM >
| | | | Posted by Kemuri
As far as the photographs are concerned they are protected by the first amendment. You can be told to leave, they can call the police, or whatever though. I don't know about your local laws. Either way they cannot ask for your camera, for your film, and if you continue shooting they can't do anything to stop it.
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Not on private property.
If your arrested watch how quick they can get a warrant to view the pictures depending on the circumstances. If so they will hold the camera.
If DHS agents pay you a visit because you were taking pics of sensitive stuff, even on public property...it's not a good idea to take that kind of attitude with them. If they think your hiding something and your a terrorist threat, your fucked.
Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.
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MutantMandias
Perverse and Often Baffling
location:
Atlanta, GA
Gender: Male
Are you a reporter? Contact me for a UE interview! Also not averse to the the idea of group/anal.
| | | Re: What exactly can mall cops/security do?
<Reply # 19 on 12/31/2006 2:59 AM >
| | | | YAY America!
mutantMandias may cause dizziness, sexual nightmares, and sleep crime. ++++ mutantMandias has to return some videotapes ++++ Do not taunt mutantMandias
mutantMandias is something more than human, more than a computer. mutantMandias is a murderously intelligent, sensually self-programmed, non-being |
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