Infiltration

Scummy location: Europe Gender: Male \|	Gases in Mines < on 11/24/2006 6:16 PM >

	I have found a few old mines near me.The area around the mine is contaminated badly.Some animals near the mines have died because of some toxins in the ground or the air.And a lot of the water is contaminated around there too.The mines are sulphur silver and copper mines and they're all pretty close to each other.So I was just wondering what would be the quality of the air down there and what gases would I be likely to find.The mines are pretty extensive and there are many shafts so at least some air gets in.Would I need a respirator for this sort of thing? Thanks,Scummy

Corvid location: Oxford, UK Gender: Male Master of Illusion!! \|	Re: Gases in Mines <Reply # 1 on 11/24/2006 6:19 PM >

	Undoubtedly someone who knows more about mine safety than me will come and explain the details to you, but my advice would be keep well away...

Captain Obvious

location:
among the tank farms
Gender: Male

in ur xbox...there are midgets

Re: Gases in Mines
<Reply # 2 on 11/24/2006 7:50 PM >

Would I need a respirator for this sort of thing?

No, you'd need a rebreather and several professionals with you. Neither come cheap.
Respirators remove airborne particulate, which won't be your biggest problem down there. Sulfur dioxide, methane, carbon mon/dioxide, and a whole host of others can kill you faster than you can say their names. Entering uncharted mines without logistical backup is akin to fighting a war with a paintball gun.

Nov. 24, 2007--The city of Cleveland, Ohio, announces that it has developed tactical nuclear weapons, and does not wish to hear any more jokes.

Mark Very Noble Donor location: South Carolina Gender: Male What is a lion, king of the savannah, when hes at the south pole? \|	Re: Gases in Mines <Reply # 3 on 11/24/2006 11:30 PM >

	There are several people who have explored mines etc. Its extremely dangerous and not regularly talked about on here. Hopefully one of the people on here can add a little more info. You can possibly research the mine to find out what past dangers and hazards they encountered. "If the threat level goes up its probably because of me." "I am looking for a girl who enjoys headbutting beltbuckles"

A2Dogg location: A2 Gender: Male \|	Re: Gases in Mines <Reply # 4 on 11/25/2006 12:10 AM >

	Sounds like you are going to want a lot more than just a respirator. Didn't the dead animals kinda tip you off? ~Dre

Ruck location: Texas Gender: Male \|	Re: Gases in Mines <Reply # 5 on 11/25/2006 12:13 AM >

	Probably not a good idea to venture there. [last edit 11/25/2006 12:16 AM by Ruck - edited 1 times] "For the listener, who listens in the snow, And, nothing himself, beholds Nothing that is not there and the nothing that is." ~Wallace Stevens

Mark Very Noble Donor location: South Carolina Gender: Male What is a lion, king of the savannah, when hes at the south pole? \|	Re: Gases in Mines <Reply # 6 on 11/25/2006 1:19 AM >

	You know going into abandoned building isn't a good idea either, but we all get enough information to live and watch for harards. We also dont go into 5 story would buildings that are about to collapse. Intelligence knowledge and the proper gear. If you dont know anything about mines I think repeating concerns is pointless, and ill informed. It might be relatively safe depending on the mine or it might not be. "If the threat level goes up its probably because of me." "I am looking for a girl who enjoys headbutting beltbuckles"

blackhawk This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information. location: Mission Control UER newbie \| \|	Re: Gases in Mines <Reply # 7 on 11/25/2006 3:18 AM >

	Contaminated with what? Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.

Ruck

location:
Texas
Gender: Male

Re: Gases in Mines
<Reply # 8 on 11/25/2006 4:55 AM >

Posted by Mark
You know going into abandoned building isn't a good idea either, but we all get enough information to live and watch for harards. We also dont go into 5 story would buildings that are about to collapse.

Abandoned buildings and abandoned mines are not the same thing.

If you dont know anything about mines I think repeating concerns is pointless, and ill informed. It might be relatively safe depending on the mine or it might not be.

I'm not sure who you were addressing with this, but I'll respond. His question is akin to someone asking what ropes would be best to climb Mount Everest with. If you have to ask, you probably aren't ready for it. In this case, repeating concerns to his question is the best answer. It's just not a good idea.

"For the listener, who listens in the snow, And, nothing himself, beholds Nothing that is not there and the nothing that is." ~Wallace Stevens

Ruck location: Texas Gender: Male \|	Re: Gases in Mines <Reply # 9 on 11/25/2006 4:56 AM >

	Here's something to read. http://www.uer.ca/...ge=1&pp#post0post0 "For the listener, who listens in the snow, And, nothing himself, beholds Nothing that is not there and the nothing that is." ~Wallace Stevens

Mark

Very Noble Donor
location:
South Carolina
Gender: Male

What is a lion, king of the savannah, when hes at the south pole?

Re: Gases in Mines
<Reply # 10 on 11/25/2006 5:54 AM >

Posted by Zero Horizon

Abandoned buildings and abandoned mines are not the same thing.

I'm not sure who you were addressing with this, but I'll respond. His question is akin to someone asking what ropes would be best to climb Mount Everest with. If you have to ask, you probably aren't ready for it. In this case, repeating concerns to his question is the best answer. It's just not a good idea.

Actually abandoned buildings are very similar to caves. You can fall and die very easily. I know several explorers have died or gotten injured, and recently although they don't frequent UER.

You can pass out and die from gasses.

You can get caught in a narrow spot and wedge yourself in.

You can get lost and hurt yourself with little or no light resource.

Granted abandoned buildings are safer then the majority of mines. However many of the safety precautions most people overlook as a explorer could get them killed by similar or same mistakes in mines.

As for the mine knowledge we don't know what his knowledge level is and several people on this forum with little more knowledge then UE have gone in mines successfully and lived to bring back photos. Others know a great deal and have asked a similar question to see if anyone had any ideas.

Your argument is the same one people use on the UE community in general, "It's to dangerous you shouldn't do it." I agree it is dangerous but it doesnt mean you can't, or do it safely. The first step he took was to ask questions maybe a more experienced person can fill in the blanks instead of saying its dangerous, because face it UE is dangerous.

"If the threat level goes up its probably because of me." "I am looking for a girl who enjoys headbutting beltbuckles"

Ruck

location:
Texas
Gender: Male

Re: Gases in Mines
<Reply # 11 on 11/25/2006 8:47 AM >

Posted by Mark

Actually abandoned buildings are very similar to caves. You can fall and die very easily. I know several explorers have died or gotten injured, and recently although they don't frequent UER.

You can pass out and die from gasses.

You can get caught in a narrow spot and wedge yourself in.

You can get lost and hurt yourself with little or no light resource.

Granted abandoned buildings are safer then the majority of mines. However many of the safety precautions most people overlook as a explorer could get them killed by similar or same mistakes in mines.

As for the mine knowledge we don't know what his knowledge level is and several people on this forum with little more knowledge then UE have gone in mines successfully and lived to bring back photos. Others know a great deal and have asked a similar question to see if anyone had any ideas.

With all due respect, I disagree. Asking random people online for advice about going into mines--which requires completely different knowledge, gear, and experience than the average abandoned building--is not the best way to become informed. Ignore, for a moment, the possibility that someone could give him the wrong advice (and there's tons of it floating around) and think about the nature of the question itself. It's like someone logging onto a mountain climbing forum and asking where to buy rope because they're ready to climb. If they were really ready to climb, they wouldn't have to ask.

Mines are not for the inexperienced, or the casual explorer, or the curious novice. The link I posted--authored by one of our resident mine gurus--supports that.

Your argument is the same one people use on the UE community in general, "It's to dangerous you shouldn't do it." I agree it is dangerous but it doesnt mean you can't, or do it safely. The first step he took was to ask questions maybe a more experienced person can fill in the blanks instead of saying its dangerous, because face it UE is dangerous.

My argument is not the same because I'm not saying don't do it because it's dangerous. I'm saying don't do it because you don't know how. There's a difference. It's irresponsible to encourage someone in an activity where A.) we don't know his experience B.) we don't know the specifics of the situation (nothing about the mine, its location, its history) and C.) the activity in question could be a dangerous undertaking even if we did know the answers to A. and B.

If you would like me to offer a more detailed response to the original poster, here it is:

The fact that "animals have died from contaminated air/ground" should be the first indication that it's a bad idea to enter the mines. The quality of the air is questionable, due to several factors: what was originally mined; when it was mined; the method of mining; the geological makeup of the area; chemicals and other nasty things possibily deposited in the mine; ventilation (lots of shafts do not equal ventilation); changes in the mine brought about by nature over time. The gases possibly present in the mine cover a wide range and again depend on many of the factors I listed above. Depending on the gases present and the quality of the air, you very well might need some sort of breathing apparatus; judging from "the area around the mine is contaminated badly," more than a simple breathing apparatus may be necessary. It is my opinion that you don't venture there. I also urge you to peruse this link at your convenience: http://www.uer.ca/...ge=1&pp#post0post0
[last edit 11/25/2006 8:51 AM by Ruck - edited 3 times]

"For the listener, who listens in the snow, And, nothing himself, beholds Nothing that is not there and the nothing that is." ~Wallace Stevens

Mark Very Noble Donor location: South Carolina Gender: Male What is a lion, king of the savannah, when hes at the south pole? \|	Re: Gases in Mines <Reply # 12 on 11/25/2006 9:17 AM >

	The guy was told don't do it several times before you for the same reason you posted. I think its redundant, and basicly pointless to say its dangerous from people who are ill informed. If your not going to help or refer them to a link similar to the one above telling them its dangerous again is pointless. If you think he was ill informed I agree. However I have had soldiers who have repelled more times then most people on this forum have been laid come to me with rope to tie off boats looking to repel. The ability to do something well and have been taught something doesn't mean that this guy is a idiot about mines completely. Was it necessary to tell him again, not in my opinion. To many people on this forum aren't in the least bit constructive, and when they do post its usually with experience they have little or no grasp on. The best thing you did was post that link, and thats great. I just think discouraging people from hard goals outright is poor game. It would have been better to tell the guy to go do far more research as apparently this forum is lacking in information. "If the threat level goes up its probably because of me." "I am looking for a girl who enjoys headbutting beltbuckles"

Scummy location: Europe Gender: Male \|	Re: Gases in Mines <Reply # 13 on 11/25/2006 4:04 PM >

	I haven't done anything with mines before but I have done a bit of caving.I looked for information on abandoned mines before but there doesn't seem to be much info on the subject.That's why I asked here.Some people here have done this kind of thing before.And I don't think asking here makes me an idiot.It's a lot smarter than just buying a random respirator and strolling into the mines.I knew it was very dangerous but I just wanted to know is it possible to do this with the right equipment.I thought the shafts(every 50 metres) would have filtered out some of the bad air so there would at least be some fresh air down there.But obviously I am no expert on the subject.I have read that thread before but it didn't have what I was looking for.But thanks for all the replies anyway.

blackhawk

This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
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Mission Control

UER newbie

Re: Gases in Mines
<Reply # 14 on 11/25/2006 4:41 PM >

Posted by Scummy
I haven't done anything with mines before but I have done a bit of caving.I looked for information on abandoned mines before but there doesn't seem to be much info on the subject.That's why I asked here.Some people here have done this kind of thing before.And I don't think asking here makes me an idiot.It's a lot smarter than just buying a random respirator and strolling into the mines.I knew it was very dangerous but I just wanted to know is it possible to do this with the right equipment.I thought the shafts(every 50 metres) would have filtered out some of the bad air so there would at least be some fresh air down there.But obviously I am no expert on the subject.I have read that thread before but it didn't have what I was looking for.But thanks for all the replies anyway.

You need to know WHAT is there if your going to protect yourself effectively. A canary is not a bad idea.

Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.

Jonsered location: Back in New Mexico where I belong Gender: Male Dressed for a scarecrow ball......... \| \| \|	Re: Gases in Mines <Reply # 15 on 11/27/2006 4:54 PM >

	Scummy, I'm known among my group as sort of a crazy SOB, and there is no way I'm going to go into the mine you are describing. Even if you have the proper gear, the proper experience, and a competent exploring buddy buddy, why? There are lots of mines out there that will try to kill you the good old fashioned way: through cave in. A mine that is known to be gas filled and has killed local animals is more risk than it is worth. It is possible that there is surface contamination, and even if your lungs are protected, your skin may be the organ that kills you. Find another mine. And to encourage you to stay alive, I'll post this link for you to find something safer in your area to explore. http://mrdata.usgs.gov/ Good luck, and good on you for asking BEFORE you went in. I have changed my personal exploring ethics code. From now on it will be: "Take only aimed shots, leave only hobo corpses." Copper scrappers, meth heads and homeless beware. The Jonsered cometh among you, bringing fear and dread.

blackhawk

This member has been banned. See the banlist for more information.
location:
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Re: Gases in Mines
<Reply # 16 on 11/28/2006 2:02 AM >

Posted by Jonsered
Scummy,

I'm known among my group as sort of a crazy SOB, and there is no way I'm going to go into the mine you are describing. Even if you have the proper gear, the proper experience, and a competent exploring buddy buddy, why? There are lots of mines out there that will try to kill you the good old fashioned way: through cave in. A mine that is known to be gas filled and has killed local animals is more risk than it is worth. It is possible that there is surface contamination, and even if your lungs are protected, your skin may be the organ that kills you.

Find another mine. And to encourage you to stay alive, I'll post this link for you to find something safer in your area to explore.

http://mrdata.usgs.gov/

Good luck, and good on you for asking BEFORE you went in.

DAMN!!! That's the cat's ass of UE interactive maps! Me likey! Thanks.

Just when I thought I was out... they pulled me back in.

Scummy location: Europe Gender: Male \|	Re: Gases in Mines <Reply # 17 on 11/30/2006 10:46 PM >

	Ok I'll admit it was fairly crazy and stupid even considering something like this but thanks for the site.It should help.There are a few other mines a bit further away that I'll have to look up...I researched this mine a bit more and found out the animals died from lead poisoning...and that arsenic and cyanide were used during the separating process so that's what's in the water.Also apparently when the water evaporates there's cyanide dust in the air.The place just sounds worse and worse.At least there are still a load of surface structures left over that I can explore.It's a shame since there were miles and miles of huge caverns down there.Thanks anyway

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